Home & Garden - St. Lucia

[mtoste]

Just curious if anyone else has gotten any information on The Home & Garden St Lucia Model that Costco is now selling? The pics and description look pretty similar to an Infinity Sun Peak. I recently purchasd an Infinity Sun Peak spa back in May and have had nothing but problems with it. I am already in the process of returning it through costco.com and am suppose to have it picked up in the next coulpe weeks. I just didn't want to make the same mistake twice and purchase the St Lucia and have it turn out to be a Sun Peak with a different Model Name! Thanks in advance for your reply. Mike.

Here is the link for the St Lucia Spa

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?...601&topnav=

[Dr. Spa]

Just to make sure we all understand... You bought a garbage spa from Costco. Costco is known for beating up vendors on price, causing them to make garbage products (though not 100% of the time :-). Now you're considering buying another spa from Costco?

[mtoste]

Just to make sure we all understand... You bought a garbage spa from Costco. Costco is known for beating up vendors on price, causing them to make garbage products (though not 100% of the time :-). Now you're considering buying another spa from Costco?

Well the Infinity spa was not a Costco Manufactured spa, it was an Infinity manafactured spa. So, with Costco's return policy why not give another spa manafacture a try, plus Costco gave me en extra incentive for the hassel I've been threw.

[sandi]

Just curious if anyone else has gotten any information on The Home & Garden St Lucia Model that Costco is now selling? The pics and description look pretty similar to an Infinity Sun Peak. I recently purchasd an Infinity Sun Peak spa back in May and have had nothing but problems with it. I am already in the process of returning it through costco.com and am suppose to have it picked up in the next coulpe weeks. I just didn't want to make the same mistake twice and purchase the St Lucia and have it turn out to be a Sun Peak with a different Model Name! Thanks in advance for your reply. Mike.

Here is the link for the St Lucia Spa

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?...601&topnav=

Scroll down about 20 topics to the one entitled,

"New Costco Model - Anyone Know More About It?" - you'll find facts and a lot of opinions about this spa. Bottom line, it IS a Sun Peak with a different model name. I've had my Sun Peak for a year and a half with no major problems. But if you think your Sun Peak purchase was a mistake, you sure don't want to buy the St. Lucia. Good luck.

Sandi

[mtoste]

Thanks, after searching the internet, I have found a total of 4 spa models that are look like a Sun Peak Spa, just different names. Below are the links to 2 other models that are very similar to the St Lucia.

Infinity Laguna Link:

http://www.costcoconnection.com/connection...2&doc_id=-1

Whirl-Pool Manafactures Diamnd Spa:

http://www.wholesalespasdirect.com/WP16000.asp

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Just to make sure we all understand... You bought a garbage spa from Costco. Costco is known for beating up vendors on price, causing them to make garbage products (though not 100% of the time :-). Now you're considering buying another spa from Costco?

Well the Infinity spa was not a Costco Manufactured spa, it was an Infinity manafactured spa. So, with Costco's return policy why not give another spa manafacture a try, plus Costco gave me en extra incentive for the hassel I've been threw.

True, the main issue with that spa was it was a low quality spa from a manufacturer not known for quality. I don't see any reason to expect anything more from the St Lucifer than you got from the Sun Leak.

[Doctor Hot Tub]

True, the main issue with that spa was it was a low quality spa from a manufacturer not known for quality. I don't see any reason to expect anything more from the St Lucifer than you got from the Sun Leak.

I hate to say this...but put your service person on speed dial. What really kills me at my local costco is that everyone of the returned tubs(1 a week) get "chipped". They are not interested in donating them to our charity where we fix them up and find a home for them for someone with severe medical problems.

[lighthouse206]

A few points about this model (I'm the guy that posted originally asking about it and spurred another boring debate between the same people about Costco vs. non-Costco... as opposed to getting much real information about this model as I requested...) Special thanks to the nice lady that compared the specs of her tub to this tub in an attempt to compare them!

But anyway, I did learn some things about this model from helpful Costco folks and a nice rep of the actual manufacturer. Here's some info I can relay to those interested in this tub (and not wanting to start another debate about the general characteristics of costco vs dealer products):

ONE.... this is NOT the Infinity tub.

TWO... this tub is NOT being manufactured by Infinity or a successor company to Infinity or by "the same people" who manufactured the Infinity tubs.

THREE.. this tub IS intended to replace the Infinity models in the Costco lineup as a budget tub.

FOUR... this tub is somewhat based upon the design of Infinity but it is its own design.

FIVE... the manufacturer is Gulf Coast Spas. These are the same people who manufacture the Pilates brand, which according to Costco (who any reasonable business expert would conclude is a good company that takes good care of its employees AND customers) gets very very positive reviews from its customers. Some of these positive Pilates reviews are posted on the Costco website.

SIX... Costco's Buyers have personally inspected this tub for quality assurance. According to the factory rep I spoke with (I know, a biased source but nevertheless), the Costco Buyers went over this tub aggressively and where amazed at the quality differences between it and their past "budget" line...

SEVEN... Yes apparently Gulf Coast is rebranding itself into different product names and quality levels, this involves new names. That's hardly a sign they are unstable. MANY companies have lots of product lines and names, including my own (Yes, I own a medium sized business). Gulf Coast appears to be an innovator in a lot of ways (i.e. they are investing in research) as they have jet systems that I haven't found anyplace else (particularly on the Pilates models) and other unique things they are doing. They are NOT focused on simply being a budget manufacturer, and their partnership with Costco seems pretty stable and long lasting. NONE of us truly know how lucrative that deal is, and whether Costco is, in fact, forcing them to cut major corners in order to make money selling these tubs through Coscto. Anyone suggesting this is speculating as the last thing Costco wants is a lot of returns on ANY product, particularly these!

All the data I could uncover on this particular tub indicated to me that it probably is a pretty darn good VALUE. Meaning for $3,500 plus tax you are getting a lot for your money. HOWEVER, the factory rep himself reminded me that this is intended to be a budget tub and that we should all keep that in mind. It does not feature the highest quality components, the thickest insulation, or the best cover (where lots of heat escapes). The warranty is VERY short.

I think this could be a great option for a value shopper willing to accept those risks, and particularly for people not looking to stay in their current residence for more than a couple of years and still want a tub. For example, my last tub was a Costco-bought Imperial which was actually built by Jacuzzi. It served its purpose amazingly well (I only wanted it for two years since I knew I was moving)..

One last point I'll make about Costco. When you buy from Costco you know you are getting a good deal. I live in the Seattle area where Costco is based and am familiar with its founders, Jim Sinegal, etc. No, I don't work for Costco and never have, while my company HAS done a limited amount of business with them. The bottom line is that Costco pretty much sells products at cost. Plain and simple. Costco makes money (its profit margin) off of membership fees. Aside from selling memberships, everything else about them is pretty much a break even operation. So while there is markup on Costco products, the markup funds the basic operation and does not derive any profit.

Hot Tub dealers on the other hand (and I'm actually going to be buying my next tub from a dealer so I'm not against dealers or small business people in general)... do add pretty major markup onto these tubs, the Seattle-area ones I'm dealing with are adding 40-50% on whenever they can. They have to, they are trying to run a business themselves and don't have Costco membership fees or volume to keep themselves afloat. My point? My best guess is that Costco is paying about $3K for these tubs, factor in shipping and add in some profit margin and that's where you get to $3,500. At a dealer, I strongly suspect these are $4,500 - $5,000 tubs "out the door". They might actually "list" for $6K. I have two sources for this information, including one factory rep and another store owner who decided to tell me how it "really" works...

Another example would be the Costco Pilates XP1 model that would very likely sell at a dealer for around $11K and be "list" at $13-14K - very much the same as a higher end Hotsprings or Jacuzzi in price.

So the reality is that the Costco tubs are very near wholesale prices (what a dealer would pay before he sold it to you). Obviously the dealers don't like this very much and would rather offer you a quality argument (these tubs are junk) over the argument I just made. That's not to say there aren't differences - major brands can be comparable but different. Sony vs. Panasonic or even Mazda vs. Hyundai. The warranty on Costco tubs IS shorter and this does reduce their wholesale cost, as well.

Again, I'm not trying to flair another argument with the same people (many of whom prefer the existing spa sales hierarchy and have friends in the business if they arent in it themselves, etc and have good reasons to try to limit the Costco sales model in the spa business as much as possible)... The reality is that is a classic buy local vs. buy online type argument. I just want to pass on what several weeks of pretty heavy duty research on this has taught me, that when comparing Costco tubs to dealer models you need to ask yourself, what would this Costco tub cost at a dealer and factor in the much higher dealer markup in order to make a true apples to apples comparison.

Depending upon what you want and can afford, the dealers have a lot more variety and can offer longer warranties. But keep in mind hot tub dealers can go out of business too, and if yours does, you are in the same boat as if you bought from Costco (calling an 800 number, praying your manufacturer is still in business, etc). Ultimately I decided I wanted a super energy efficient AND high tech model, with an ipod compatible stereo and lounger, and Costco just doesn't offer that.

Also, especially when you are going higher end in particular it makes a lot of sense to at least sit in the tub and make sure it fits you. This is something else you can't do with Costco, and these are reasons to pay the extra money and go dealer. I luckily found a dealer willing to do some serious bargaining and wound up paying (I'd guess) about $9.5K for a model that typically goes out the door at $12K and "lists" at $14K - about equal to what the Costco Pilates XP1 would have cost me installed. This took a lot of negotiating, however!

[Dr. Spa]

The bottom line is that Costco pretty much sells products at cost. Plain and simple.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You REALLY believe this? I sell some item Costco sells, and I sell them for LESS! I was there the other day, and saw over a dozen items I could get for LESS at my local grocery store.

BTW, a "small business" is classified as having fewer then 1000 employees. You own a medium sized business?

[KIALDA]

I am sorry Lighthouse, but this last post of yours wins the award for the number one delusional incorrect rant I have seen yet. Your assumptions of how this industry functions are beyond obtuse. I am sure most dealers, service centers and manufacturers will simply read your post and avoid comment. You see it is hard to have a dissuasion of intelligence with an unarmed individual.

I however understand that this is an open forum and everyone is entitled to there opinion and comments. Let me say it in the level of terms you feel we need to see to understand.....Your opportunity to opine has been read and laughed at.

1-- Your wrong

2--Your wrong

3--Your wrong

4-5-6-7-8-9- Your wrong...

[lighthouse206]

Rather than attacking me, how about attacking my facts? And before you do that, you might check out this article which mentions that Costco's maximum product markup is 14% with most items at 10%:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/r...23-costco_x.htm

Costco's business model, practices, and policies aren't rocket science. They are well documented and studied both by the mainstream media and by business schools (MBA programs) all across the country.

[KIALDA]

Rather than attacking me, how about attacking my facts? And before you do that, you might check out this article which mentions that Costco's maximum product markup is 14% with most items at 10%:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/r...23-costco_x.htm

Costco's business model, practices, and policies aren't rocket science. They are well documented and studied both by the mainstream media and by business schools (MBA programs) all across the country.

Sorry, you made the post so I am addressing you. There is another poster on here that feels they are an industry expert because they have over 100 posts on a spa forum.. If you are going to post information, please do so from your own knowledge. Most of the info I have seen are from people that dont have a clue! I am sorry you fit into that group..

You made the post then live with the comments.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Rather than attacking me, how about attacking my facts? And before you do that, you might check out this article which mentions that Costco's maximum product markup is 14% with most items at 10%:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/r...23-costco_x.htm

Costco's business model, practices, and policies aren't rocket science. They are well documented and studied both by the mainstream media and by business schools (MBA programs) all across the country.

Lighthouse,

Most of us who try to enlighten people about these Costco spas shop at Costco. They have very good deals but most of them are on products that we can buy elsewhere so we know that a gallon of Mayonnaise is exact same thing we can buy elsewhere. That is NOT true with spas, especially since Costco has shown that the top 3 things they look for in a spa is price, an exaggerated spec sheet and price. Costco's decision makers have time and again shown that they know nothing about what makes a quality spa because they've sold TOTALLY poor quality spas time after time (Hydro, Keys and Infinity). Now they are selling Living Waters who most of us previously knew as Tatum (and before than Gulf Coast) and they have been a poor quality spa for years but they are next in line because they’ll meet a price point. Now all of a sudden we're supposed to believe they’re going to provide a quality spa?

As far as Costco people inspecting the spas and liking the quality give me a break. Those spas where babied along and had about 10x the attention that one of their typical spas gets. Furthermore, I have 10 years in this business (far less than others around here) and laugh at the thought of some buyer at Costco giving this spa a thumbs up. What is he/she basing that on, his/her 10 years of sitting at a desk buying items over the phone? You might as well have me look at a diamonds under a microscope and grade them. After all, I'm about as qualified to give an opinion on the quality of a nice gem as a Costco buyer is qualified to give a stamp of approval on some spa that has been hand picked to be shown to him at the Living Waters showroom LOL.

If you want to say you’re buying the Costco spa based on price, that you are a DIYer and have no problem with lack of support and are willing to take a chance on the quality because you know you can return it then that’s fine. The problem I have is when you try to tell people this is somehow going to be a good quality spa or even a decent quality spa. If you buy it I won’t say you’re getting ripped off because the price is right but this is definitely a case of “you get what you pay for”.

[Roger]

[Lighthouse,

Most of us who try to enlighten people about these Costco spas shop at Costco. They have very good deals but most of them are on products that we can buy elsewhere so we know that a gallon of Mayonnaise is exact same thing we can buy elsewhere.

Sorry ST I do not shop at Costco. They have different part numbers on the same product thats at a different store. It's like they are a couple digits off on the part numbers of there TV's and stuff yet they look the same as the electronic store stuff??? I asked the electronic store guy and he scratched his head also. The only thing he could figure just like me is that they make a specific part number of the same product just for Costco. My guess also was that the product may look the same but it was build different. Check it out sometime. Get a part number online for a product from the manufacturers site and shop it around. The mayonaise is probably different also??? And there prices aren't that better if at all around here. They are the same as Sam's Club, Wallmart, K-Mart, Target any one of those type stores. But most you don't need to be a member to buy the junk.

I use my negotiating power at the smaller stores for almost as good of a deal on the part number I want, not the one they force you into buying.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Sorry ST I do not shop at Costco.

My wife and I do about 20% of our grocery shopping at Costco. The vast majority of what we buy there is food though we do our best to avoid getting the 10 lb bags of pretzels. We'll get things like eggs, butter, canned tomatoes, shampoo, chicken breasts etc. I've gotten a car battery there and a few items like that but I can't remember ever getting electronics.

Certainly Costco sells items you can buy elsewhere. Spas are no different but you have to realize the spas they sell are not just any spa. They are spas like Inifinity, Keys, etc. So, if you want to compare Costco spas to something you'd have to know what Living Waters spas are like and they certainly have a history (which is probably why they keep changing their name).

Here are just a couple examples of what you can expect from these Living Waters spas if history is of any interest to anyone:

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?rev=2655 consumer spa review for Gulf Coast (aka Living Waters)

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?rev=2132 consumer spa review for Gulf Coast (aka Living Waters)

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=670 read cueball to get an idea of how he unexpectedly became his own service person

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/config.p...mes;read=105201 John is a very reputable sefvice person in the Northeast

[Trigger]

... HOWEVER, the factory rep himself reminded me that this is intended to be a budget tub and that we should all keep that in mind. It does not feature the highest quality components, the thickest insulation, or the best cover (where lots of heat escapes). The warranty is VERY short.

I think this could be a great option for a value shopper willing to accept those risks, and particularly for people not looking to stay in their current residence for more than a couple of years and still want a tub.

Agreed. This is a disposable tub.

What I dont' agree with is the "value" of the tub. It's my opinon that spending more money on a quality tub that lasts longer, performs better, and has less isssues and is more relaibale to be a better choice, even if the home onwer is going to abandon it when the sell the house in a few years. An educated shopper would see the value in a well maintined brand name, as well as see the liablity of the Costco POS sittng on the deck.

But differerent strokes for different folks.

[sandi]

What I dont' agree with is the "value" of the tub. It's my opinon that spending more money on a quality tub that lasts longer, performs better, and has less isssues and is more relaibale to be a better choice, even if the home onwer is going to abandon it when the sell the house in a few years. An educated shopper would see the value in a well maintined brand name, as well as see the liablity of the Costco POS sittng on the deck.

But differerent strokes for different folks.

The definition of value is " the relative worth, merit, or importance of something." Since it's relative then, by definition, "value" is different strokes for different folks. My first car, purchased when I was 18 and had just started driving, was a VERY used Chevelle that my dad paid a couple hundred bucks for. Did it have value - YOU BET!!! It was more valuable to me than any other vehicle on the road!!

Our Costco POS, which has given us very few problems (so far), is the first spa we have ever owned. Turns out that we only use it about once a week - that's by choice, not b/c it's a cheap spa. For us then, this spa has a lot of value - it has enabled us to realize that we will never be "twice a day, every day spa users" without having invested a lot of money. When the spa dies, or has cost us enough in repairs that we say, "That's it!" I don't know that we will even buy another to replace it. For us, "spending more money on a quality tub that lasts longer, performs better, has fewer issues and is more reliable" would NOT have been the better choice, nor would it have been the better value.

Bottom line, we ALL buy the things we buy for reasons that are important to US - whether it's a house, a car, a spa, or a jar of mayonnaise. Consequently, those things have value, but only to us, not necessarily to anyone else.

Sandi

[Trigger]

of mayonnaise. Consequently, those things have value, but only to us, not necessarily to anyone else.

Sandi

I agree. Thats' why I put the "different strokes for different folks comment in there. I do appolgize for the POS remark. that was rude.

However, after debating the Costco issue for years, it's nice to hear the actually factory rep (at least according to Lighthouse) state it is a low end tub, with low end components with poor insualtion. We've beeni telling folks for years that the lower end tubs fromt he big box stores are lesser tubs, at least now we can agree on it.

Light house:

Costco's Buyers have personally inspected this tub for quality assurance. According to the factory rep I spoke with (I know, a biased source but nevertheless), the Costco Buyers went over this tub aggressively and where amazed at the quality differences between it and their past "budget" line...

I don't think a costco buyer would know a quality unit from a jelly donutt. Buyers are not Hot tub experts. If the factory rep acutally said this, then he has the credibility of a used car dealer.

as another poster has said, Costco has plowed through a series of low end tubs. this is the latest in the line. Do you really think this one is going to be any better? Even after the rep tells you it's a low end tub?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I don't think a costco buyer would know a quality unit from a jelly donutt. Buyers are not Hot tub experts. If the factory rep acutally said this, then he has the credibility of a used car dealer.

I've known more than a few buyers, I actualy think most know their jelly donuts quite well.

As far as hot tubs, they buy based on three things 1) price, 2) an inflated (and often fabricated) spec sheet and 3) a promise by the manufacturer that the quality will be there (though in reality as soon as they get the promise on the first two items they're ready to buy).

How anyone could think a buyer's opinion on a hot tub's quality has ANY meaning is half laughbale and half sad.

[Roger]

I've known more than a few buyers, I actualy think most know their jelly donuts quite well.

As far as hot tubs, they buy based on three things 1) price, 2) an inflated (and often fabricated) spec sheet and 3) a promise by the manufacturer that the quality will be there (though in reality as soon as they get the promise on the first two items they're ready to buy).

How anyone could think a buyer's opinion on a hot tub's quality has ANY meaning is half laughbale and half sad.

Come on ST give the guy a break, he's forming his own opinion based on who he wants to believe whether it's a tub buyer for Costco a manufacturers rep for that tub or us. After all what do we know????

[Deus66]

First Off Lighthouse206 "Give Em' Hell" God knows I've tried for months and given up posting. These dealers and techs want us to believe that PVC pipe, a pump, and Chem. 101 is some kind of magical mystical force that only they can understand! I own a Costco tub, and since it was my first, I didn't want some $10,000.00 tub that I might not have enjoyed. In the future I may purchase a more expensive model, but I am happy with my first time out Costco tub.

As for KIALDA I saw the rank of that user is a "Spa Savant" should be "Idiot Savant" only because the post was so negative! My God what is wrong with people in here, when someone wants to defend their point of view about something that they get slammed? Moron KIALDA, back off!

Get over it people, Costco sells good products with the best darn return policy you could ever dream of. Sure some of the Spas they sold in the past had issues, that’s why those spa companies have been bought/sold/bankrupt/etc...

I haven't posted in months here because of these negative attitudes by the "Elite" spa professionals. Keep up the fight Lighthouse.

[Roger]

First Off Lighthouse206 "Give Em' Hell" God knows I've tried for months and given up posting. These dealers and techs want us to believe that PVC pipe, a pump,

How many different types of PVC pipe are there?

[Trigger]

First Off Lighthouse206 "Give Em' Hell" God knows I've tried for months and given up posting. These dealers and techs want us to believe that PVC pipe, a pump, and Chem. 101 is some kind of magical mystical force that only they can understand! I own a Costco tub, and since it was my first, I didn't want some $10,000.00 tub that I might not have enjoyed. In the future I may purchase a more expensive model, but I am happy with my first time out Costco tub.

As for KIALDA I saw the rank of that user is a "Spa Savant" should be "Idiot Savant" only because the post was so negative! My God what is wrong with people in here, when someone wants to defend their point of view about something that they get slammed? Moron KIALDA, back off!

Get over it people, Costco sells good products with the best darn return policy you could ever dream of. Sure some of the Spas they sold in the past had issues, that’s why those spa companies have been bought/sold/bankrupt/etc...

I haven't posted in months here because of these negative attitudes by the "Elite" spa professionals. Keep up the fight Lighthouse.

I think you are over reacting Deuss. A lot of the heated discussions around the "budget" tubs comes when someone tries to convince the world (or maybe just themselves?) that the $3000 costco tub is just as good as $9000+ quality tub from say Watkins, Sundance or Artic etc. I get the impression that you agree they are not. I believe you understand what you have and what you don't have and are satsified with it.

However some folks have gotten into heated arguments with very expericed techs, users and other respected industry proffesionals arguing that the tubs are indeed the same and the dealers are simply misleading and ripping people off.

Here in this thread we have a third hand quote from the manf. rep even admiting that the budget tubs are less quality.

Latley it seems the insulation debate has also been put to rest with many of the lower end tub owners posting high electric bills, and the need for additonal insualtion.

Are the budget tubs a good deal? That's opinion. Mine is that they are not, but I belive that resonable people can agree that there is a significant quality difference.

Nothing more. nothing less.

[lighthouse206]

First Off Lighthouse206 "Give Em' Hell" God knows I've tried for months and given up posting. These dealers and techs want us to believe that PVC pipe, a pump, and Chem. 101 is some kind of magical mystical force that only they can understand! I own a Costco tub, and since it was my first, I didn't want some $10,000.00 tub that I might not have enjoyed. In the future I may purchase a more expensive model, but I am happy with my first time out Costco tub.

As for KIALDA I saw the rank of that user is a "Spa Savant" should be "Idiot Savant" only because the post was so negative! My God what is wrong with people in here, when someone wants to defend their point of view about something that they get slammed? Moron KIALDA, back off!

Get over it people, Costco sells good products with the best darn return policy you could ever dream of. Sure some of the Spas they sold in the past had issues, that’s why those spa companies have been bought/sold/bankrupt/etc...

I haven't posted in months here because of these negative attitudes by the "Elite" spa professionals. Keep up the fight Lighthouse.

I think you are over reacting Deuss. A lot of the heated discussions around the "budget" tubs comes when someone tries to convince the world (or maybe just themselves?) that the $3000 costco tub is just as good as $9000+ quality tub from say Watkins, Sundance or Artic etc. I get the impression that you agree they are not. I believe you understand what you have and what you don't have and are satsified with it.

However some folks have gotten into heated arguments with very expericed techs, users and other respected industry proffesionals arguing that the tubs are indeed the same and the dealers are simply misleading and ripping people off.

Here in this thread we have a third hand quote from the manf. rep even admiting that the budget tubs are less quality.

Latley it seems the insulation debate has also been put to rest with many of the lower end tub owners posting high electric bills, and the need for additonal insualtion.

Are the budget tubs a good deal? That's opinion. Mine is that they are not, but I belive that resonable people can agree that there is a significant quality difference.

Nothing more. nothing less.

My main point is that a budget tub from Costco is comparable to a generic budget tub through a dealer and that while $3,500 is budget at Costco, factoring in MUCH higher dealer MARKUP (which nobody seems to be questioning) a $4,500 - $5,000 tub of similar size at a dealer likely cost THAT dealer about the same as what Costco is paying for the one they sell at $3,500. The difference is markup, or profit on the sale. Costco = very low profit on individual sales (10-14% is well documented) vs 40-50% minimum at dealers, at least the ones in my area.

It should also be pointed out that Costco DOES sell non-budget tubs. The Pilates brand isn't intended to be a budget brand. It features technology not seen on ANY other tub that I can find! Check out the jet system! The XP1 is being sold for $7,000. Figure 14% markup and that tells you Costco is probably buying these tubs for about $6,000, perhaps a hair less with shipping factored in. To me that equals a $9,000 out the door tub at a dealer (comparable to upper middle end to high end tubs in my area). The list could be as high as $12,000. The same rep I talked to said he felt that the XP1 would MSRP for $14,000 if sold through traditional channels.

Costco also has other brands that are not being sold as budget. I don't think these are built by Tatum/Gulf Coast. Yet I'm sure the "experts" on here will tell you they are junk without even determining who builds them - just like none of these "experts" have stated they've actually examined a recently built Tatum product like this spa or the Pilates line.... They will probably find some line in the spec sheet and use that as argument that the whole product is junk.. watch and see.

[Trigger]

BANG HEAD HERE --->

a budget tub from Costco is comparable to a generic budget tub through a dealer

A "Generic buget tub trough a dealer" ?!?!?

What, talking about?!? If a a dealer sells a "generic budget tub" then it;s not what we are talking about. I thought we were comparing brand names with the brands through Costco?

It should also be pointed out that Costco DOES sell non-budget tubs. The Pilates brand isn't intended to be a budget brand. It features technology not seen on ANY other tub that I can find!

Suuuuuure. It's only sold at budget prices!!!!!! . Can you say gimmick? Can you say, "once it's broken you're screwed gimmick"?

Yea. I thought you could.

AS far as therest of your post, you are talking through your hat. In one post you claim Costco sells for cost, then in another post, you pull a made up profit margin out your backside and then guess what a hot tub dealers (any dealer,pick one) has for a mark up. Please, stop making stuff up.

They will probably find some line in the spec sheet and use that as argument that the whole product is junk.. watch and see.

Those @#$@#% bast@rds!!!!!!!!! How dare they use facts to support thier arguments!!!!

But thanks, you pointed out exactly the tpye of post I was trying to explain to my friend Deuss.