How Are Bullfrog Spas?

[spa_newb]

Went to look at a showroom just for fun with my girl and the local dealer only sells Bullfrog. He also services them. They look pretty nice, we liked the Jetpacks that you can customize and move around. Also he was big on the fact that they use a lot less plumbing (less to break) and also he can customize them in a lot of different ways (lighting placement, jetpacks, control options, circ pump or no circ pump, etc).

He showed us their largest one, the 682 loaded with all the goodies and said it was like $10,300 in that config (included cover, steps, chemicals).

Is that a good price?

We were looking at the 462 which is a bit smaller and could be had fully loaded for like $8500.

Any feedback on these models, prices or the brand in general?

Thanks

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Went to look at a showroom just for fun with my girl and the local dealer only sells Bullfrog. He also services them. They look pretty nice, we liked the Jetpacks that you can customize and move around. Also he was big on the fact that they use a lot less plumbing (less to break) and also he can customize them in a lot of different ways (lighting placement, jetpacks, control options, circ pump or no circ pump, etc).

He showed us their largest one, the 682 loaded with all the goodies and said it was like $10,300 in that config (included cover, steps, chemicals).

Is that a good price?

We were looking at the 462 which is a bit smaller and could be had fully loaded for like $8500.

Any feedback on these models, prices or the brand in general?

Thanks

I think you should wet test it versus a few of the other reputable brands in your area to determine what you like rather than rely on a sales presentation. I think the jetpacks are a unique Marketing idea but I'm not sure that they really give the consumer anything special. IMO it’s no different than the jet differences between Jacuzzi, Hot Spring and Marquis. If you wet test them versus another brand and like them then that’s the spa for you. The less plumbing pitch is fine but its means little in the end to the consumer IMO. Anyone who buys them should do so on the merits of how good the spa feels in a wet test and how much they like/trust the dealer and not because of a sales presentation but again, that's just my opinion.

[spa_newb]

Yeah we will absolutely wet test whatever we decide on. This was only the first, we eventually will look at Arctic, Hot Springs, D1, etc......Still a ways away, just wanted to see them in person to get a feel on quality, size and price.

The main things I liked on the JetPaks were that later on, as new advancements come out, you could test and buy new ones (somewhat future proofs the tub) and also, if you had a favorite seat you could place your favorite jetpak there, rather than have fixed jets and be stuck looking at the house or shed because your favorite jet is in the worst seat. They also had some pretty wild jet paks in the trial tub that I never even felt before.

[amcdonald307]

This seems like the right place for me to jump in and make my first post...

I got a Bullfrog 552, a month ago today. For me (and it will be one of your first questions too), the question came down to having a lounger(s). I did my share of wet and dry testing of various tubs and listening to different sales pitches. I didn't go with the Bullfrog line because of the sales pitch - I went for it because of the comfort I felt sitting in it (or more properly laid back in it).

One of the biggest complaints I have seen against Bullfrog (on this et al boards) is the "gimmickeness" of the jetpacks. I will stand by my statement that it was the most comfortable tub for my body as the leading criteria, but I will admit I do actually like idea of moving my jets around. I do have a definate favorite seat, the ugly bench lounger (way more comfortable to me than it looks!), but I have a couple different favorite jetpacks, and I do like to swap them out in my space. Plus, the kids do seem to like swapping them all about weekly. You never know what configuration we might end up with on any given day (but they know to only put those 2 in MY bench).

Plus, my dealer will let me "borrow" any of the packs in stock to take home and try out (I may have a 3rd favorite shortly!).

So, more to your point... I own a Bullfrog. I am impressed with the quality, comfort and "solidness" of it, which were it's selling points to me. The gimmicks were just bonuses (and I approve of them now more than when I was listening to them as sales speeches).

I will say I did try and was interested in other tubs, and probably the tie breaker for me was I personally liked the dealer (didn't feel like a used car salesman). So, don't be afraid of Bullfrog, I think they are good quality. But do try as many different types as you possibly can - some will grab you and some won't.

[spa_newb]

2 other points noted from the salesman were as follows:

1)Even when insulated with foam, the plumbing under the spa which is filled with hot water releases heat which escapes under the spa and is lost. With Bullfrog spas the majority of the plumbing is on the the JetPak inside of the spa submerged in hot water. This means that the heat escaping through the JetPak plumbing is being transferred to the spa water. This process heats the spa and recycles energy.

2)Most spas made by other manufacturers cannot run all of the jets at once and require a diverter valve thus leaving some of the jets unusable. Usually this is not sufficient and it is necessary to use the largest pumps possible to run the systems. Whilst on the surface it may appear to be beneficial to use a larger pump, it is our opinion that from an energy point of view this is in fact detrimental.

[Roger]

2 other points noted from the salesman were as follows:

1)Even when insulated with foam, the plumbing under the spa which is filled with hot water releases heat which escapes under the spa and is lost. With Bullfrog spas the majority of the plumbing is on the the JetPak inside of the spa submerged in hot water. This means that the heat escaping through the JetPak plumbing is being transferred to the spa water. This process heats the spa and recycles energy.

2)Most spas made by other manufacturers cannot run all of the jets at once and require a diverter valve thus leaving some of the jets unusable. Usually this is not sufficient and it is necessary to use the largest pumps possible to run the systems. Whilst on the surface it may appear to be beneficial to use a larger pump, it is our opinion that from an energy point of view this is in fact detrimental.

Sales Spin, nothing more. When a Bullfrog is not circulating the water in those pipes that feed the jet paks it gets stale along the rim of the tub. The seals for the jet paks where they meet the plumbing can fail over time, This same water is also very close to the outside and upper lip of the tub and looses all it's heat causing the pump and heater to engage to maintain heat. A good quality tub has the majority of the plumbing insulated and just a few feet of plumbing in the equipment bay exposed.

There's an opposing view. Any one of the quality brands will be as energy effecient or better. Will have the same or better longevity. It comes down to comfort in your dealer, your wallet, and on your backside as long as your choosing one of the quality brands. Bullfrog is a fine spa and in my and alot of others opinion top ten but nothing special. And i agree with ST gimmicky.

[spa_newb]

He claims Bullfrog fixed the "stagnant water" issue years ago and that it is no longer the case.

[Pathfinder]

Ask your dealer why they now offer a circ pump for the tubs. When earlier they were against them. Unfortunately there isnt that much less plumbing than a higher end tub. All Bullfrog has really done is take the normal way a tub is plumbed and turned it upside down. As stated b4 the main supply line loses more heat since it is exposed all of the time since the cover only protects the top but the side is wide open. The biggest issue I ve seen is that all of the seats are the same height. Not everyone has the same body type. It may be comfortable for some but not the majority. As I see it you shouldnt be sitting on the tub floor you should be sitting in a natural seated position. Wet test with at least 3 people and you will be able to tell how comfortable you will be.

[spa_newb]

The dealer I went to has the circ pump as an option, and said it was mainly marketed for it being significantly quieter (it was) than the regular pump on low. He did say if it wasn't outside a bedroom tyipcally the circ pump was merely a luxury that you didn't have to have. He said the energy usage between the circ pump/no circ pump was negligible.

As for the plumbing, I think the point was that it was better to have issues with a jetpak than the internals of the tub itself.

[amcdonald307]

2 other points noted from the salesman were as follows:

2)Most spas made by other manufacturers cannot run all of the jets at once and require a diverter valve thus leaving some of the jets unusable. Usually this is not sufficient and it is necessary to use the largest pumps possible to run the systems. Whilst on the surface it may appear to be beneficial to use a larger pump, it is our opinion that from an energy point of view this is in fact detrimental.

Ah, the diverter valve issue. I've been out of shopping mode so long, I forgot about this. For me, this became a big deal. Some of my early favorites were "diverted" and that seemed fine. In reality I figured I would spend half the time (or more) with the jets off just soaking any way. But during wet testing I became aware there were times I wanted everything running at once with 5 of us in the tub.

Not saying bullfrog was the only option or that they did it any way better. But for me it did cut down 75% of what I was looking at when I decided I couldn't live without it (basically anything with 2+ pumps).

Supidly, I did NOT spring the extra $78 to have an aux control button (to turn on/off jets away from main control). I left it out as part of my give/take deal negotiation. How lazy do you have to be not to get out of your chair to turn on/off the jets? Well, I forgot being lazy was the whole point!

So my retro-sage advise - don't shop with price in mind, especially in the early feeling out stage. Start out just finding the things you like and don't like (for me yes to a lounger, definately no to anything that had a seat shaped like the inside of an egg shell). When you get more serious it will help you eliminate some choices without feeling like you had to give something up. In the end I did spent about a 1/3 more than my initial "budget", but I don't feel I gave up much not spending $5g more than I did.

You mentioned a price above and is it a good price? Way too early for that. Get a list short list of 3 or 4 real possibilities, then you can side-by-side compare them. And it gives you an honest bargining chip if the dealers know you have alternatives and are not in a I-must-have-this-tub mode (even if that really IS the case!)

[East TX Spa]

Here's a neat little video that shows how you change the JetPacks:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnyu7Fg8jWM&...feature=related

My customers are too lazy to do all of that. I am, too, come to think of it.

Bullfrog makes fine spas.

Good luck!

Terminator

[Paperdoll]

Do not buy a Bullfrog Spa...I bought a new one and it leaks to the point I can't use it. They have been here three times and can't fix it. Now they have to pick it up and take it to the store to try to repair....I thought it looked nice so I purchased it. I recently heard Bullfrog knew of the faulty plastic light covers they use...they have tried to repair it three times and it is still leaking.

[Dr. Spa]

The light cover is leaking? And they're picking it up (at their expense) to repair it to new like quality in their shop? Sounds like pretty darn good service to me! Oh, but you did hear a rumor.

[Loopcity]

I know this is an old thread, but there is a lot of misinformation.

There really is significantly less plumbing in a Bullfrog than a traditional spa. The water does not get funky behind the JetPaks. This was solved years ago. They don't offer the circulation pump because of this, they offer it because some people want it as an option. Also, whomever said all of the seats are the same height is 100% incorrect. All of their spas offer varying seat heights. This is an even better feature once you realize that you can find which seat fits you the best, then put which massage that you want in that seat.

The Bullfrog design is innovative and has real, tangible benefits. I see a lot of competitors knocking something that they seem to know very little about.

Don't take my word for it. Go to a dealer, wet test, ask questions. See for yourself. Bullfrog builds a better mousetrap, in my opinion. There is a reason that they are the fasting growing hot tub company.

As to the guy saying he has leaking light lenses, so don't buy.... That is ridiculous. Bullfrog has a reliable product with an excellent warranty. It sounds like he got a bad repair man from his local dealer. Bullfrog does not hire the repairman. It also sounds like they are willing to take it back to the factory since the repairman can't fix it. This sounds like amazing service, if you ask me.

[Paperdoll]

Dr Spa: I did not say I heard a rumor about the leaky lights on the Bullfrog Spa... that fact came straight from my dealers (crew's) mouth. They are the people that try to fix the defect on the Bullfrog Spas....They told me they had gone to three customers in the last two weeks with the same problem...I'm not sure who you are, but you have lost all credibility with your latest responses. You are not my enemy...I'm just stating facts. I prefer you stick with the facts also and not be argumentative. Your defensiveness makes you sound as you are guilty of something....

[Dr. Spa]

Initially you said, " I recently heard Bullfrog knew of the faulty plastic light covers they use".

Now you say, the service crew from the dealer you bought the spa told you. "they had gone to three customers in the last two weeks with the same problem".

Your first statement indicates that the manufacturer is knowingly using/installing a faulty/defective product....which your second statement makes no indication of. Your second statement, which may or may not be an exaggeration, is simply a statement from the service crew that they've seen a few of these in the past few weeks.

My credibility? You made, what appeared to me to be, a false accusation against the manufacturer, and I called you on it.

[Rosebudforglory]

I think some folks (who don't think Bullfrog is anything but gimmicks) miss the real point.  It's not that everyone even many would want to change the paks all the time.  But to me the point is all other spas - you are stuck with whatever you buy and their position.  So even if you only change it once or twice after you have decided the perfect location .....that's better than the others where you can't do anything.  Someone said you could turn the spa to face your better view but that isn't always possible due to how electrical access and how you need to get to the insides.  Being able to move those jets where you want is a game changer for me (if you find the spa comfortable, in your price range, and it meets your needs). Plus I like the idea of being able to get the latest jet Pak to target different areas as they come out.  For me - with shoulder, neck, hip, back, and leg issues - being able to pick and choose those paks that take care of my sore places in the seat or lounger of choice is great.  I will say too that not having some seats having to be diverted is a great feature.  I find the real reason I turn jets off is if they are noisy which some cheap spas they are - it is hard to talk over some of them or even just relax.  I like to have all on or select which I want off myself.  Good luck buying and the advice to test several is spot on. 

 

PS: make sure you the brand you buy - you have several options for repair and maintenance companies who have been around for years not just 6 months to 2 years...look for 5-10 yrs or more if possible.  Don't get carried away at pool show and buy off brand show model and then no one near by who will service it when the mfg. has gone bankrupt.  

[Mr Fix It]

Hi Folks.  Although this is an old thread, it was new for me this morning.   Just got back from the NYS Fair and I wandered through the hot tub display areas of one of our local pool companies last nite.  Theyre selling Bullfrog hot tubs.  I spoke with one of the Bullfrog factory reps...aka..salesman.

I own an Emerald Cygnus hot tub thats been in use now 18 yrs.  I thought I would add a different slant to anyone thinking about hot tubs from someone who's used them and fixed them for a long time.

Seating...sit in the tub dry.  Are you tall?  If so, a deep seat might be fine. Im 6'1" but find I get too hot and move to a shallow 'cooling off' seat.  Your wife, gf or guests may be shorter, many times the jets 'blow' a shorter person out of a deep seat.  Are there any structures ur shorter guests can reach to brace themselves?  I saw some Bullfrogs with a raised foot area for that purpose.

I have hard water at my house.  Its very difficult to keep all the spinning type jets free and working.  I add the hard water chemicals which help but over time it will become an issue.

Bullfrogs have an underwater valve on their jet pak to control flow.  My hard water will make that inoperable over time, however, being able to remove the jet pak would allow me to clean it with LimeAway.

Plumbing.  My company occasionally sends me down south in the winter for a month.  I like in upstate ny, Read: its cold.  I drain and winterize my tub before leaving.  Mpy Emerald has LOTS of jets meaning lots of plumbing.  I use a shop vac to blow out the lines.  The tub is not self draining.  When it seems dry, I blow antifreeze into the lines.  Problem is, youre never really sure you got them all drained. The Bullfrog rep said to winterize their tub, it drains from a low point and to crack the fittings by the pumps.  Seems like that would be easier.

Repairs.  If you own it long enough, anything will break.  Hot tubs included. I repair my own stuff.  Its important to buy from a local dealer who can get parts. Id type that again but this reply is already long. I also drain my hot tub in the summer, I have an inground pool so the tub seldom gets used.  Hot tubs dont like to be drained..seals dry out and leak.  Ok got it. If ur tub has LOTS of cool jets, to me, EVERY hole in the shell of your tub are all potenial leak points.  Ive replaced many jets, in my tub as well as in friends tubs.  External, foam covered piping underneath your tub sucks.  With all that spray foam its hard to tell just what is leaking.

Think of your tub as a 5 gal bucket.  With no holes in the bucket theres not much chance for a leak, but then the water cant get in or out.  Drill a hole, add a goes-in and a goes-out. Now you have 2 places where your bucket can leak.  Now drill 30 to 40 holes for jets...thats 30 to 40 more chances for your bucket to leak. Bullfrog via their Jet Paks really reduce the number of holes in your bucket.  That is really something to think about.

The shortest distance from two points is a straight line...thats how tub plumbing is installed, meaning to replace a jet you have to cut the line. To install the new jet you need to add a piece to that line.  The Bullfrog company seems to understand the concept of less holes in your tub wall equals less chance for leaks. Trust me, over time your tub will develope leaks.

When I remove my access panel, I see lots of foam covered lines and a number of bare lines.  I do feel a fair amount of hot air. Does less exposed plumbing mean its more energy efficient?   I would think so. Bullfrogs do have much less plumbing.

My Emerald has two pumps.  Pump one is a circ pump which runs whisper quiet. Its job is to clean and heat the water.  It runs at a low speed and doesnt draw much power.  Pump two is a 2 stage pump...it delivers water to the jets at either high or low flow.  Some Bullfrogs have 2 pumps but all are single speed.  The circ water pump seems to run at a higher flow.  Will it use more electric just to keep the water clean and keep the tub hot?  Not sure.

As a side note, I did see a hot tub with an infinity edge from another dealer.  Although it looks cool, that waterfall will lower the temp of your water in cold climates to where you'll feel chilled.  Looks cool but not practical up north. I guess itd be ok if your tub was indoors. Sorry for digressing...

Under repairs, ive also replaced one pump, a half dozen jets, the heater and ozonator.  Like I said, use something long enough, stuff breaks.  Maybe you just call a repair man for your tub so this is a moot point.  Bullfrog tubs seem simple and straight forward, maybe long term maintenance would be less?

I read about the previous leaking lights comment, im assuming that problem was addressed?

Just thought id give some thoughts about tubs.

 

[Darl]

We have owned our Bullfrog R8 for just about 2 years now and I'm not impressed with the quality. We started off with issues on the backpack and the gasket at the bottom of it. This gasket is needed to make sure the water gets into the backpack and out the different jets. The gasket was poorly designed and all 6 of our backpacks started to leak and make load sounds when under pressure. I will say that bullfrog finally replaced all of them after complaining and arguing with our seller. We noticed that the design had changed thus I am sure they had lots of complaints. Also we found that the head rest clips tend to snap and so make sure that no one puts any pressure on them or sits on them. We have replaced 8 clips. This year we opened the hot tub and two of the speakers on the inside are not working. This just a 2 year old hot tub. When talking with the seller they made it sound like its a known issue. Also this year we noticed the cover was really heavy and it seemed to be holding water. We have determined that the bullfrog cover is leaking water into the hot tub. If this was a low cost hot tub I could under stand some of these issues but this is not a low cost hot tub. I think bullfrog is not doing enough testing on the product. I want this review out so people know what they are getting into.

[happywanderer]

Bullfrog XL7 review

I bought a Vitaspa Prestige in August 2021, only to have to have it replaced with an XL7 a couple of months later because it was manufactured so badly. The chrome around the water feature jets rusted, the jets would not open, and those that did often popped off, which was very annoying. The LED lights were also faulty, with some only glowing red and no other color. While not a fault per se, the other thing I didn’t like was the headrests, which are held on by a single button and frequently came off.

My dealer was very helpful and apologetic, and ordered a replacement Prestige, which the manufacturer promised would be delivered in a month. Three months came and went, and my dealer gave up with Vitaspa and offered to replace my tub with a Bullfrog XL7, even though this was $1,300 more than the Vitaspa.

I looked at the tub and accepted his offer and barely a week later my new tub arrived, all expenses paid by my dealer to crane it onto my deck and remove the old one.

So, a month later, how do I feel about the XL7? I think “Blah” sums it up.

I think it’s a better-quality tub than the Vitaspa, the jets are screw-in rather than bayonet, the headrests have two buttons, so don’t pop off and the overall fit and finish of the tub seems better. My only complaint about the headrests is that they are as sculpted and as soft as a housebrick; they press on your neck, giving you a headache very quickly.

Where the XL7 falls down is the design. I get the sense it was designed by an apprentice on his first day using SolidWorks design software, not by someone that actually knows anything about hot tubs.

The control panel is absurdly located and at such a steep angle that it cannot be operated from inside the tub. What were they thinking? Did they think no-one turns the jets on while they are in the tub?

There are very few jets, so that’s a bummer. The Prestige had 52 well-placed jets, the XL7 has only 38 and these aren’t well placed. Getting a foot massage requires the skills of a Tibetan yoga master.

The forearm and hand jets are actually very welcome and give a hard, deep massage, although again, not well placed, and, bizarrely, cannot be turned off, so about half the power of the jets is lost through these outlets, leaving the rest of the jets to provide a pretty tepid massage.  

The neck jets are utterly useless and do nothing except make a loud and annoying slurping sound. They certainly don’t give a neck massage.

The filter cabinet is made of two ill-fitting bits of plastic that rattle around loudly whenever a bather so much as wiggles a toe. I jammed a sponge in between them to stop this.

The tub is loud. Really loud. The Vistaspa was almost silent, but the XL7 is like a military fighter jet on reheat. Damn this thing is loud. I’m so glad it’s 50ft from my window and I can hardly hear the noise or feel the vibration. I feel bad for my neighbors, but hey, their Air Conditioning unit is just as loud, so we’re even.

It’s nice to soak in the tub but when the heat cycle kicks in, the vibration makes you nauseous. And the heat cycle kicks in a LOT. The Vitaspa never seemed to be reheating, it was just always at temperature. The XL7 cycles very, very frequently. I haven’t seen my electricity bill yet, but I’m expecting it to be high. Clearly insulation is not high on the XL7’s list of features.

Finally, the lights are installed far too high. Instead of imparting a nice glow to the water, they are installed at eye level and burn out your retinas when you settle into the water.

So, is it all bad?

No, the quality is better than the Vitaspa, the jets are better quality and I think this tub will last 10 years. I’m not so sure the Vitaspa will last that long.

Price is always a factor in buying a hot tub and this is a base model tub. If you buy a base model Ford you have to expect to do without wheels, and this analogy fits with the Bullfrog.

If you’re looking for a tub to just sit in hot water, the XL7 does the trick, but that’s about all it does. I’m no hot hub expert and it may be that any base model tub is the same.

Would I buy one again? Maybe. But I would look a lot harder at other offerings first.

My rating: 4/10