Blue Water Oceanside Extreme Spa Question

[KennyG]

Hi everyone,

I'm considering buying from a Ebay dealer the Oceanside Extreme 134 jet spa from Blue Water. Has anybody had any positive or negative experiences with this company? Also, what do you think about this spa in general for quality. The feedback on his profile looks good on Ebay. I'm just wondering if anyone out there has had a good experience with this spa and company. Thanks for your time in this matter.

[Pathfinder]

This is from the site:

This is THE LARGEST TV SPA ON EBAY and THE MOST POWERFUL! Featuring 134 jets powered by three 56 frame 6HP Wet End Pumps! This spa measures 92" x 92" x 36"! With a retail value of over $20,999 don't let this deal pass you by!!

The tub is just a cookie cutter tub with a tonne of bullet jets that offer some therapy. Just realize that is tub is a $2500 tub selling for $4,999 not a $20,999 on sale for $4,999

[airwebber]

Where can I get this hot tub for $2500?

Thank you in advance.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Where can I get this hot tub for $2500?

Thank you in advance.

I think he was saying he thought it was only worth $2500!!

[soakme]

I have the Oceanside tub... I posted my initial thoughts on it here... I need to update that thread with more information... part of the problem is that I misplaced my camera (last seen when taking pictures of the cat in the clothes dryer?)... I will add more information there later...

However for those itching to pull the trigger on a tub now, I have a few thoughts to share about the Oceanside:

1) The tub feels solid. The shell is strong. The electronics(Balboa), motors, and jets(Waterway) seem to be quality components. This is not the same animal is the Keys tubs I see at my local big box store. That one was not impressive at all ( the cover was ridiculous!).

2) The jet counts are inflated by the fact that the Blaster jet openings are included in the count. Look at the picture carefully and count the jets. I will post the exact number and type of jets when I get a chance. Most of the seats have a combination of the larger jets and some mini jets. The mini jets make some people itch; however they can be turned down. I also found that the itch sensations were reduced when I lower the temp to 100 degrees. Personally, the tub feels more comfortable to me at this temp.

3) A lot the time, I like to just sit in the thing and soak! So don't assume that a lot of jets is better unless your familiar with how much you'll really like them.

4) Stay away from the upgrades. I don't think they are cost effective. Avoid the Pure Water Management system upgrade. It is redundant in this tub because the extra circulation motor your paying for only runs during filter cycles, not 24/7. This feature does operate 24/7, as advertised, in their Santa Cruz model.

5) Both the dealer and manufacturer are responsive when contacted. However, I'm not sure how vast there service network is. I had a minor issue with the cover tie-downs. It took about a month for the tech to come out (I live in suburban Phila.). He was a nice guy, but came from about sixty miles away; so I think he was waiting till he had a couple other calls near me.

6) This tub came with a generous amount of sprayed on insulation. I haven't really had it long enough to pull together the additional energy costs yet, and, as has been pointed out before, new users tend to have higher initial energy costs because they futz with the tub alot.

This tub can be had for as low as $4000 on ebay. I think it is a good value at that price, but consider the caveats I describe in this and my other thread. If it lasts a while it may turn into a better than good value.

[Roger]

I count 66 useless bullet jets. And I bet those pumps are 6 BHP, which relates to about 3 real HP. And I am glad it has wet end style pumps otherwise it would have a tough time pushing water????

[soakme]

I count 66 useless bullet jets. And I bet those pumps are 6 BHP, which relates to about 3 real HP. And I am glad it has wet end style pumps otherwise it would have a tough time pushing water????

They're Mini Jets (a little better than bullet jets) they are adjustable in direction and flow... pump power is not issue... pump 1 has two speeds and seems dedicated to heating, general circulation and the lounger; pump 2 runs the left and top left seats; and pump 3 runs the top, top right and right seats... there is quit a push coming from these seats... I actually wish pumps 2 and 3 had a low speed...

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Hi everyone,

I'm considering buying from a Ebay dealer the Oceanside Extreme 134 jet spa from Blue Water. Has anybody had any positive or negative experiences with this company? Also, what do you think about this spa in general for quality. The feedback on his profile looks good on Ebay. I'm just wondering if anyone out there has had a good experience with this spa and company. Thanks for your time in this matter.

Last I knew Infinity made the tubs for Blue Water with their name on it. This was a couple of years ago, so I do not know if that has changed. They use their origional molds they had before aquiring Waters Edge molds for their "new" molds that costco etc. have. Check this out and look into Infinity/Keys/Costco comments

[airwebber]

soakme's happiness with the hot tub makes me more unsure what to do.. lol

[spatech (the unreal one)]

soakme's happiness with the hot tub makes me more unsure what to do.. lol

You need 2 things for this route to work for you IMO:

1) You need to be a DIYer because you will be the service tech.

2) You need to understand that while you are spending less up front you will be adding $$ as you go with noticeably higher monthly energy bills and the costs for you to keep it running when issues arise (that warranty you print out will do little good other than to help start a fire in your wood stove this winter).

[kengorman]

1) You need to be a DIYer because you will be the service tech.

Not necessarily. I'm a DIY and purchased my spa through Blue Water (which is a re-seller of Infinity Spas). When I had a jet pop out, the Infinity service department asked me if I was comfortable popping in a new jet. I said I'd try. A few days later a UPS shipment arrived with not only a replacement jet, but a few spares as well. I popped in the replacement jet.

After 4 months of ownership, the spa wouldn't come on. Being a DIY'er, I investigated somewhat myself and determined the circuit board fuse had popped. After talking to the Infinity Service department, they told me they'd send a service technician out. The very next day, the local service tech called and setup an appointment. He came out to the house, figured out the problem, fixed it and left. He billed Infinity directly. He even called back a few weeks later to make sure everything was still working.

To indicate that a potential owner will be solely responsible for service is untrue.

2) You need to understand that while you are spending less up front you will be adding $$ as you go with noticeably higher monthly energy bills

Higher monthly energy bills are still debatable. I added extra insulation to my tub as a precaution against high energy bills (but I also added extra insulation to my newly constructed home as well). Many brand-name spa owners add insulation.

that warranty you print out will do little good other than to help start a fire in your wood stove this winter

This is complete non-sense. Infinity stands behind their product. Do a search on this forum about Infinity spas. I even have a thread where I searched through every post that had 'Infinity' in it. In all cases where the owner had an issue, Infinity's service department resolved the issue.

The Infinity-bashing crowd is at it again.

[airwebber]

kengorman,

Do you think the hot tub will only last 5 to 6 years?

[kengorman]

kengorman,

Do you think the hot tub will only last 5 to 6 years?

I don't see any reason why the Infinity Spa I purchased from Blue Water wouldn't last as long as other spas.

The components used in the spa are reputable components from reputable manufacturers. The motors are General Electric Regal Benoit motors, the jets and plastics are from Waterway, the controls and topside panels are Balboa M-7, the circ pump is an Emerson.

Infinity uses Aristech Acrylics for the spa shell - the same acrylic used by Bullfrom, Cal Spas, Thermospas, Sundance, Caldera, Jacuzzi, etc.

Infinity also uses an ABS plastic bottom on their spas as well

Aristech Acrylic

The "big name" spas I compared the Infinity against used identical parts from identical manufacturers. The fit and finish of my spa compares to any other I've seen.

Their service department is accessible and helpful and dispatched a service technician to my home the next day when I did have a service issue.

Good luck.

Ken

[Roger]

I don't see any reason why the Infinity Spa I purchased from Blue Water wouldn't last as long as other spas.

The components used in the spa are reputable components from reputable manufacturers. The motors are General Electric Regal Benoit motors, the jets and plastics are from Waterway, the controls and topside panels are Balboa M-7, the circ pump is an Emerson.

Good luck.

Ken

Ken, Do you think GE, Waterway, Balboa and Emerson sell the same quality and level of components to all the spa manufacturers that buy from them? Or is it possible that the spa manufacturer tells these suppliers what level of component they want? So if a manufacturer wants his reputation for building spas that last for 15-20 years to remain intact would he not buy a higher level of component to achieve that longevity, would it not make sense that those components cost more? And if you are trying to reach a price point to sell more to the masses and never consider longevity in this manufacturing process. Would it not make sense to buy a less expensive component to achieve this price point?

I would think 5-8 years would be resonable for any of these cookie cutter value tubs out there built for the masses. But a high end quality spa is 15-20 or more.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

the jets and plastics are from Waterway,

Ken

The last products we received from Infinity.....jets and pillows....were not waterway, they were chinese copies (right down to the number!) And the pillows are a chinese made knockoff, we know because they were having a hard time when they first purchased the molds from waters edge getting the correct pillows, they did not want to buy from the manufacturer waters edge used and all the spas were going out without pillows untill they could find knock offs that would work (had to wait till china copied the mold) The covers are also of low quality. We have had some of their tubs in the field for 2 years now, problems with jets, pillows and covers. I will say there has been no issue with pumps or control systems yet. There has also been issues with the material used for the cabinets.

Hopefully the service tech they sent gets paid, when he gets burned a few times, next time he has to come out, if he will, he may charge you and tell you to get the money from Infinity. Now that they have bought Keys Backyard it seems to have gotten worse.

[kengorman]

Ken, Do you think GE, Waterway, Balboa and Emerson sell the same quality and level of components to all the spa manufacturers that buy from them?

Yes.

Or is it possible that the spa manufacturer tells these suppliers what level of component they want?

I believe manufacturers of all products (not just spas) try to make as much profit as possible. One way to do this is to negotiate with suppliers to get the most for the least. Obviously, putting low quality components in a spa will cause problems a few years down the road leading to dissatisfied customers, bad reputations, and will ultimately hurt your business.

I have yet to see anyone provide any evidence that the GE motors in an Infinity spa are inferior to the motors found in other higher priced spas.

The reason other spas are higher priced isn't because they use higher priced components. It is because their business model relies on a high-priced brick-and-mortar dealer network. The monthly costs to operate a retail spa establishment are astronomical. How many spas does a dealer have to sell a month in order to pay the salaries, rent, overhead, inventory, etc. of the business? The costs of doing business are incredible compared to the e-tailers.

I've previously done comparisons against a Sundance Chelsee compared to an Infinity Santa Cruz and showed they used comparable components. The Sundance Chelsee had a retail price of $10,995 and I was quoted an out-the-door price of $8995. The Infinity Santa Cruz I ultimately purchased was $3100. I find it hard to believe that the Sundance components made up for the $6000 price differential.

Regards,

Ken

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Ken, Do you think GE, Waterway, Balboa and Emerson sell the same quality and level of components to all the spa manufacturers that buy from them?

Yes.

We have spoken to several of the parts manufactures...Balboa direct has a "different level" pack that they make for each of the various companies. These "different level" control systems cost less becasue of the way they are made. Pump manufactureres we have not talked to personally, so can't comment. They also sell several different models in the M7 class from cheaper "throw away versions" to the higher quality control systems. Balboa M7 are not all the same, there are several models.

[Roger]

Ken, Do you think GE, Waterway, Balboa and Emerson sell the same quality and level of components to all the spa manufacturers that buy from them?

Yes.

Or is it possible that the spa manufacturer tells these suppliers what level of component they want?

I believe manufacturers of all products (not just spas) try to make as much profit as possible. One way to do this is to negotiate with suppliers to get the most for the least. Obviously, putting low quality components in a spa will cause problems a few years down the road leading to dissatisfied customers, bad reputations, and will ultimately hurt your business.

I have yet to see anyone provide any evidence that the GE motors in an Infinity spa are inferior to the motors found in other higher priced spas.

The reason other spas are higher priced isn't because they use higher priced components. It is because their business model relies on a high-priced brick-and-mortar dealer network. The monthly costs to operate a retail spa establishment are astronomical. How many spas does a dealer have to sell a month in order to pay the salaries, rent, overhead, inventory, etc. of the business? The costs of doing business are incredible compared to the e-tailers.

I've previously done comparisons against a Sundance Chelsee compared to an Infinity Santa Cruz and showed they used comparable components. The Sundance Chelsee had a retail price of $10,995 and I was quoted an out-the-door price of $8995. The Infinity Santa Cruz I ultimately purchased was $3100. I find it hard to believe that the Sundance components made up for the $6000 price differential.

Regards,

Ken

Well Ken it is OK for you to think what you want right or wrong. Just don't preach missinformation until you get the facts. Waterway makes hundreds of different jets for several manufacturers. Ranging in price from just a few dollars for a cheap one to 20-30 bucks for a more expensive one. All basicly the same looking after instalation into a tub shell. But all with different life spans and jet feel.

Any experience I have had with GE pumps has been terrible. I replace them with a very inexpensive Sta-Rite that seems to last alot longer.

Again, you are allowed your opinion that your 3100 dollar tub is somehow the same as a more expensive dealer tub. No one will dissagree that it cost more at a dealer because of there overheads. But anyone who thinks the dealers are buying 2500 dollar tubs and marking them up to 8000 or more is way way out of the loop. You payed 3100 for a 2500 dollar tub, your mark up went into some coorporations pocket. Joe went to a dealer and payed 8000 dollars for a 6500 dollar tub, his mark up went into a local dealers pocket. Both have tubs, one with a dealer backed warranty one without. One well insulated, one not so well insulated. One with a long standing reputation for reliability and longevity. One with no reputation at all because the tub won't be around long enough to get a reputation other than the one they allready have among those in the industry which is.....Exactly what you pay for, you get!! Nothing more. Go to Home Depot and buy a 26 dollar Max Power 18" Pipe Wrench and bring it into your garage and reef on some pipe. Go buy a 66 dollar Ridgid 18" Pipe Wrench and do the same thing and maybe you will understand.

[Roger]

Well Ken it is OK for you to think what you want right or wrong. Just don't preach missinformation until you get the facts. Waterway makes hundreds of different jets for several manufacturers. Ranging in price from just a few dollars for a cheap one to 20-30 bucks for a more expensive one. All basicly the same looking after instalation into a tub shell. But all with different life spans and jet feel.

Any experience I have had with GE pumps has been terrible. I replace them with a very inexpensive Sta-Rite that seems to last alot longer.

Again, you are allowed your opinion that your 3100 dollar tub is somehow the same as a more expensive dealer tub. No one will dissagree that it cost more at a dealer because of there overheads. But anyone who thinks the dealers are buying 2500 dollar tubs and marking them up to 8000 or more is way way out of the loop. You payed 3100 for a 2500 dollar tub, your mark up went into some coorporations pocket. Joe went to a dealer and payed 8000 dollars for a 6500 dollar tub, his mark up went into a local dealers pocket. Both have tubs, one with a dealer backed warranty one without. One well insulated, one not so well insulated. One with a long standing reputation for reliability and longevity. One with no reputation at all because the tub won't be around long enough to get a reputation other than the one they allready have among those in the industry which is.....Exactly what you pay for, you get!! Nothing more. Go to Home Depot and buy a 26 dollar Max Power 18" Pipe Wrench and bring it into your garage and reef on some pipe. Go buy a 66 dollar Ridgid 18" Pipe Wrench and do the same thing and maybe you will understand.

Do you truly think any pump, jet, control manufacturer is going to tell anyone, or as few people as possible they sell a cheaper version of there product to one tub maker versus the other. Lets not be nieve....how do you spell that?

How long have you owned your tub Ken?

[Roger]

Whats funny is if you take the wrench analogy to the next level. Menards is our local discount big box home improvment supplier. When Home Depot moved to town in direct competition with Menards they advertised a better quality than Menards. I purchased 8 solid oak 6 panel doors from Home Depot that cost 30 dollars more than the exact same solid oak 6 panel door from Menards, same manufacturer. One weighted about 10 pounds more than the other and had 3 hinges versus the 2 hinge model at Menards. It cost more but was a much better door. At my local ma and pop door store they charged 65 dollars more for there 6 panel oak door and it was an even better door, heavier and better quality. All 3 from the same door manufacturer. Why anyone thinks this can't be true in hot tubs is behond me.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Do you truly think any pump, jet, control manufacturer is going to tell anyone, or as few people as possible they sell a cheaper version of there product to one tub maker versus the other. Lets not be nieve....how do you spell that?

If you have gone to any Balboa Direct training classes, they do explain that they use "different levels" of control systems of different qualities, along with several thousands of configurations made specific for different tub manufacturers. Also, maybe because of the situation we were in (helping Infinity when the aquired Waters Edge molds, and becasue we worked for a manufacturer) we get different info from the companies than most service techs. (We can also buy direct from most manufactures where other service techs have to go through a parts supply place)

Its like any "store brand" product. In many cases it is lacking something from the name brand. Some things it may lack may be tolerable, other things it may not.