Need Help With Hot Tub Chemicals And Strips

[mmiller]

Hello All,

We are new to owning a hot tub..and need some help!

First, some context: We just bought a home with a pre-exisiting hot tub. Sundace 800 Royale. The people we bought the house from inherited it from the previous owners and (supposedly) didn't use for 4 years.

We had someone from a local company come out and fill the tub, make some minor repairs and check the chemical balance. Also replaced the filter and showed us how to clean the filter.

Chemicals we are using now are bromine tablets and non-chlorine shock.

Unfortunately, we REALLY didn't know what we were doing at first and let the bromine get too low. Several things have happened:

1. Although I was in the hot tub more often and more recently, my husband developed a rash that looks like the photos of hot tub rash that I see online. I did not develop a rash at all.

2. After using extra shock and sanitizer, I have been able to get the bromine level up (although chlorine is also showing high??)

3. My husband and I must both be color-blind, because we are having a hard time reading the strips (I mean..we can tell the difference in the low and high colors, but not the ones in between on the strip. We can see the color degradations on the bottle, but the colors on the strip don't really seem to match that well (for example the red on the bottle looks orange-red, and the red from the strip looks pink-red).

4. While it now looks like the bromine is about right, the chlorine is high, the Ph is high and the alkalinity is high (if we are reading the strips correctly)(the local company says high pH and alkalinity are not normal with the city water we are using..so we must have done something??)

So...we haven't been back in the hot tub in about a week...my questions are:

1. Do we need to drain the tub because of the rash my husband developed?? We would like to avoid doing this because our area is a drought and we don't want to waste the water. But..if that is what we need to do, we will. We ordered a bacteria test kit..has anyone had any experience with those?

2. Is it normal to have high clorine levels if you are using bromine tablets?

3. What could cause high pH and high alkalinity if it isn't common to the area?

4. Is there any way to read the chemical levels other than strips? Are some strips easier to read than others?

I'm sorry to post so many questions at once, but we love having the hot tub and want to be able to use it.

Thanks!

[Whoneedsavacation]

A bunch of folks will chime in and tell you to get a drop reagent testing kit instead of the strips. So far I have resisted that advice and am using test strips, but I have found that brand makes a big difference. I find the Leisure Time "instant" strips for bromine a lot easier to read than the other couple of brands I've tried. The cheaper strips needed to be timed before reading, and they never really stabilized into one color, but stayed sort of blotchy and multicolored. The LT strips must be read immediately, but seem to attain a uniform, easy to identify shade. FWIW. If you really have color vision problems, they make electronic strip readers that read the color automatically. Don't know how well they work.

Bromine tablets contain chlorine as well, which "activates" the sanitizer. So if the bromine level is high from tablets, chlorine could run high, too.

Some folks report a hypersensitivity to bromine, which could also be causing your husband's itch. Did the bromine level drop really low? Did the water get cloudy?

On our first fill we took the floater out and let the bromine get down to essentially zero -- our water got cloudy, but it cleared up nicely after re-introducing the floater and shocking it a few times. We went ahead and continued to use it. We did get a bit itchy but that's because we were having trouble keeping the bromine level LOW ENOUGH.

BTW Shock will actually LOWER the free bromine as it "uses up" some of it.

High pH/alkalinity is either from the water or something you (or the tub) are adding to it. How does your tap water test? Usually water becomes less alkaline over time from the chemistry associated with aerating it with the jets. I'm not sure what an unused tub might harbor, though.

If the itch is really from bacteria, I'd think the better part of valor would be to heavily sanitize, drain and refill, but shocking with bleach might also be effective enough to be safe. I'd defer to the experts on that one.

[Dr. Spa]

Test strips don't actually measure chlorine or bromine...... Test strips measure the oxidation potential of the water. The test strips are specifically calibrated to the substance they're designed to test. Chlorine [bromine] strips convert the "oxidation potential" reading of the water into how many PPM (parts per million) of chlorine [bromine] would be required to reach that level. Bromine [chlorine] test strips will register an "oxidation potential" of chlorine [bromine], but their reading (color change) wont be accurate or really indicate anything understandable (although, there is a multiplier one can use to convert chlorine test strip readings to bromine results, and vis-a-versa). By the way, chlorine/bromine test strips will also register a positive reading for non-chlorine shock (MPS) and hydrogen peroxide.

[TinyBubbles]

I agree with whoneeds, the brand of test strips makes a big difference. I, too, can read the leisure time but not another brand I bought. Your husband's rash could be caused by bromine, many people are sensitive to it. Especially since you mentioned adding extra sanitizer. It could, also, be caused by the high ph. If you didn't add anything to raise your ph or alkalinity, you might consider the drought you mentioned. Water is coming from a much lower level in our reservoirs and the water is being treated with more and different chemicals than usual. Many people on this forum, including myself, are huge fans of dichlor (chlorine) for spas, it's just really easy, especially for first-timers. Good Luck.

[Whoneedsavacation]

Dr Spa... assuming there is a bromine reserve, doesn't the shock react completely in a fairly short time span? I typically notice a lower bromine level (or oxidation potential) a while after shocking than beforehand. Which makes sense since the shock is oxidizing the bromine reserve. Right?

[mmiller]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I am going to give the tub one more try as is, try some different test strips..and if we still have problems will probably drain and switch to chlorine.

Will let you know how it goes.

[David66]

I have also come across advice that recommends changing the water after a couple weeks or so when filling a new tub, just as a type of "cleansing" measure. I wish I would have done that with mine, because I had the dealer fill it with water so I could try it out. After I bought it, they delivered it about a week and half later. Who knows what they did or didn't do to the water in the meantime. Even if they drained it, there could have been some skunky water left in the pipes. In your case with a tub that hasn't been used in a number of years, draining it now and refilling might make sense. Consider it a way to clean out anything that was in the plumbing, helping to make sure you start with clean(er) water.

David

Thanks for the advice everyone! I am going to give the tub one more try as is, try some different test strips..and if we still have problems will probably drain and switch to chlorine.

Will let you know how it goes.

[Chris W]

I know from the start of this thread that you're focusing on finding test strips that will work better and not on switching to a drop based test kit, but how will you know which strips are good or bad? For the $15 you would spend on a 5-way test kit from Wal-Mart (The new ones that come from Arch are actually Taylor test kits) you could at least tell which strips are giving you good information and it only costs about as much as a box of strips. That way you'd still have the drop kit for those times when things seem off and the test strips are hard to read.

Personally, If I'm travelling, I try to watch the service people test the pool or spa water each day. If I see them using strips, I don't swim or soak. If I see them using a good drop-based test kit and making the right adjustments, I let the family enjoy the pool and/or spa. Just my choice

I have used several brands of strips and while they are useful to verify that nothing's badly out of whack, I don't use them to make chemical adjustments, just to verify what I expect to be true.

[waterbear]

A GOOD test kit makes all the difference in the world on how easy your water is to balance. If you are using bromine I would recommend the Taylor K-2106. If you are using chlorine the Taylor K-2006. While these kits might seem to be pricey when compared to strips think how much your tub cost and then look at the price of the kit again. When you consider how much you will save on chemicals NOT wasted it really is a bargain!

[waterbear]

Test strips don't actually measure chlorine or bromine...... Test strips measure the oxidation potential of the water.

Actually this depends on whether the strips are DPD-DPD/potssium iodide(pink), Cupric/OTO (green) or syringaldazine/vanillinazine (purple) based. Some measure total oxidizing power in the water and will therefore also measure such things at MPS and peroxide, others are halogen specific and will only meaure free halogen.

The test strips are specifically calibrated to the substance they're designed to test. Chlorine [bromine] strips convert the "oxidation potential" reading of the water into how many PPM (parts per million) of chlorine [bromine] would be required to reach that level. Bromine [chlorine] test strips will register an "oxidation potential" of chlorine [bromine], but their reading (color change) wont be accurate or really indicate anything understandable (although, there is a multiplier one can use to convert chlorine test strip readings to bromine results, and vis-a-versa). By the way, chlorine/bromine test strips will also register a positive reading for non-chlorine shock (MPS) and hydrogen peroxide.

While it is true that the strips are, in a sense, measuring the oxidation potential of the water some strips are measuring only the halogen component (free chlorine or bromine) and others will measure total oxidizer, depending on the chemistry involved in the manufacture of the strip. It is really less confusing, IMHO to think of the strips meausing the amount of chlorine or bromine present. When measuring chlorine you want to know both free and combined chlorine ( or free and total chlorine) but with bromine you only want a total bromine reading. Some strips are calibrated for both bromine and chlorine so sometimes newbies get confused and think that they have both in their spas. If you are using bromine ignore the chlorine scale on the strips and if you are using chlorine ignore the bromine scale.

The conversion factor of 2.25 to convert a chlorine reading to bromine is an accurate way to convert a total chlorine reading to a total bromine reading whe a test kit is only calibrated for chlorine.

[waterbear]

Dr Spa... assuming there is a bromine reserve, doesn't the shock react completely in a fairly short time span? I typically notice a lower bromine level (or oxidation potential) a while after shocking than beforehand. Which makes sense since the shock is oxidizing the bromine reserve. Right?

The shock or oxidizer is oxidizing the bromide ions in the water (your bromide reserve) into active bromine sanitizer, hypobromous acid. If you test immediately after shocking you will find very high bromine levels since you have created a large amount of hypobromous acid in the water. However, this level will drop after a time as the hypobromous acid is depleated by oxidizing organics in the water and by exposure to sunlight (UV).

If there is no bromine reserve in the water then you would be meauring the chlorine or MPS in the water. This can happen when only bromine tablets are used and sodium bromide is NOT added after a water change. It can literally take several weeks for enough of the tablets to dissolve to create the bromide reserve so the spa is actually a chlorine spa at the beginning.

[IlliniFan]

A GOOD test kit makes all the difference in the world on how easy your water is to balance. If you are using bromine I would recommend the Taylor K-2106. If you are using chlorine the Taylor K-2006. While these kits might seem to be pricey when compared to strips think how much your tub cost and then look at the price of the kit again. When you consider how much you will save on chemicals NOT wasted it really is a bargain!

[IlliniFan]

A GOOD test kit makes all the difference in the world on how easy your water is to balance. If you are using bromine I would recommend the Taylor K-2106. If you are using chlorine the Taylor K-2006. While these kits might seem to be pricey when compared to strips think how much your tub cost and then look at the price of the kit again. When you consider how much you will save on chemicals NOT wasted it really is a bargain!

Sorry, computer challenged! Where would you suggest I go to buy the k2106 and what should I expect to pay for it?

[chem geek]

Sorry, computer challenged! Where would you suggest I go to buy the k2106 and what should I expect to pay for it?

You can get it directly from Taylor here for around $70 plus shipping.