New Keys Backyard Tub - Pump/electrical Issue?!? Please Help!

[lys]

I'd love some advice and/or info! We just bought a 6-person Keys Backyard spa through Home Depot. They shipped it on a pallet pump-side down in subzero temps. Apparently the test them before sending (??) or maybe they sent us a return, or? At any rate, we got it set up and found there were gallons of water frozen in the pump. Used heaters and thawed it out and drained it. Not sure the pump even works! When thawed out it filled the center of the tub - where your feet go. Has to have been 20 gallons of water in it. No visible leaks, but have not been able to see if the pump works yet. The pump won't power up to prime. It only clicks.

In the setup instructions it says to check #s cycling on control panel. Last # should be 24 for pumps with 240V system. Ours is 240, but reads 12 (for 120V). Manual says if this happens, to call. Apparently a common problem. We did call and they said it's wired wrong. The Tech first told me it had to be the GFCI, though that breaker doesn't blow and tests fine. Electrician who wired our house, came back out - he assures us it is wired correctly. He even tried circumventing GFCI and wiring direct from the house. So after multiple electrician trips and testing, he says the bottom "leg" on the control panel is not getting juice. All wires hot from house. Used "6 wire" which even the supervisor said was ample. He even switched the two hot wires and says nothing coming out of "bottom leg" on the panel itself. It's like it's getting only 120V. Enough to run panel but not to fire the pump.

So electrician says faulty panel. Company says faulty electrician. (Who I trust completely. He wired our house - passed on first inspection - he's been around forever. I don't think it's the wiring!)

The first guy at tech support was so extremely rude. Told me to "shut up and listen" - then sent me to supervisor voice mail. I called back. Second tech was nicer, but supervisor told me in all his 20+ years, they've NEVER had a problem with the panel and it has to be our wiring. I asked him with his experience what it might be and he didn't have an answer. Though he agreed the pump could be dead from the freezing water. He just kept saying it was the wiring. I asked him how that can be when wired directly from the house - there's only 1 ground, a neutral and two hots coming into the thing. All test fine. So either my entire HOUSE can't support 240 or there's a problem at the panel itself. Supervisor just defended product, said they NEVER go bad, etc. etc.

I asked them to send me a panel - he told me a two week delay and that they'd just send a tech. And that I'd be charged for it since he's sure it's our wiring, but that the tech wouldn't check the wiring itself since he's not licensed. So what if he gets out here and still says it's the wiring? These two are at an impasse and I owe everybody and STILL don't have a hot tub!

Also, when the tub is SHIPPED with at least 20 gallons water and damaged and doesn't work, and I have to pay to repairs - it doesn't seem like much of a warranty, which is infuriating! So I told them I was returning the stupid thing. Starting the fun process of repackaging the spa and shipping back. Home Depot will honor the return.

So I am just wondering if anyone knows anything before I hire help to repackage and crate this thing back out of the yard to ship it back to them. It seems like I'm just missing something! I feel like if I could talk to a REAL support person there'd have been a solution. Anyone with info?? Any ideas would be great!

OR is there somewhere we can just buy the stupid panel? They refused to ship me one. Such a frustrating thing!!

Any help/info would be much appreciated. Otherwise this thing goes back and I give up. Thank you in advance!!!

[cplarsen]

Ship the piece o crap back, then go buy from somebody who supports their product.

[TinyBubbles]

There are plenty of people here with the knowledge to help you, but I don't know if they will. Lots of people are outraged when someone buys a spa from a big box spa. So, I'm not very qualified, but I'll try. Usually, most spas can be set to operate on either 240 or 120, and this can be changed with a flip of a swith. Yours probably came set from the factory at 120 instead of 240 or somehow got switched. I believe it's just a matter of finding the correct DIP switch. Maybe someone here with more knowledge will be able to help you. Oh, by the way, what brand controls do you have?

[cplarsen]

There are plenty of people here with the knowledge to help you, but I don't know if they will. Lots of people are outraged when someone buys a spa from a big box spa.

Not me, I bought used.

But I wouldn't want to be dealing with these people for the next couple of years. The dealer for the brand I got has given me good support. Told him he didn't sell me this one, but he's working on the next one. ;^)

[Roger]

Ship the piece o crap back, then go buy from somebody who supports their product.

I am assuming it is NOT a 120V-240V convertable tub? If it isn't I also think it is the control. But I am not sure I would go through the trouble of replacing the control on a tub that probably has more damage than you have even seen. I guess it's possible no lines cracked or broke but it seems thats way to big a risk when you consider you have to first replace the control. Then you have to heat it to make sure there is no other damage, only to find there is damage.

You bought a new spa, it should work after placement, wiring and filling period. Any other steps should not cost you a dime. Use a dealer and they won't.

Most tubs are NOT convertable. Some of the smaller ones are.

[Chas]

Sorry for your frustration, we'd love to see you enjoying your tub!

Can you find a reputable repair tech in your area? Tell us the general area you live in, and we might be able to recommend a good one for you. It might be worth the cost of a house call to have somebody who knows about spas to check it out. I know it is frustrating to have to pay for this, but a tech with experience on your type of control might just be able to get it going without a problem, or at the very least they could tell you that the panel is good or bad. The money might be well spent to stop the blame game, I hope.

I don't know what type of control you have, but I would bet that it is set for 120 and simply needs to be changed to 220. The steps for that could be as easy as a 'DIP Switch' as was mentioned above, or some jumpers, or moving a wire or two.

Perhaps the factory could let you know who made the control panel, and you might even get better service out of them?

I do concur with Roger on one point though - there may be damage from freezing water in the plumbing. Have you filled it yet?

[TinyBubbles]

Most tubs are NOT convertable. Some of the smaller ones are.

When Biggz posted pics of his key's backyard spa it had Balboa VS controls, which are convertible. That's why I asked what controls you have. The fact that the controls read out either 120 or 240 also makes me suspicious that it can be converted. Balboa controls tech support is incredibly helpful and friendly. If you have their controls, just email them with the exact info. for your system and they should help you in a matter of minutes. Of course, that's only the first step. You then have to see if you have freeze damage and decide what the best course of action is for you. Good Luck.

[lys]

Thank you all for your comments!!! I have to admit I didn't do my homework well enough at all. I didn't realize I'd bought from a "big box spa" company OR what that even meant. We live in the middle of nowhere, literally. 50 miles to any major towns. (We're in the south central Colorado)

My first tub purchase and I bought it as a suprise for hubby and family... Duh-me.

So, I only found this site today and after reading a bit I can see the wisdom in going through a dealer! I DID think it was best to stay away from an "online company," but thought via Home Depot - they at least have a reputable name... And to their credit they seem to be willing to honor the return.

I agree with all your comments. Very well could be more damage than we're aware of. We did have it filled and nothing seemed to leak, but until it's running who knows? Could be something springs a leak when things are running under pressure? I'd bet the pump's cracked even if we do fix the electrical issue.

I did think of the jumper scenario too. We looked at the schematics and nothing was obvious. Different settings on jumpers for lights, etc. Nothing spelled out but we didn't spend a lot of time on it either.

Anyway, thank you all for your consensus. I think you're right Chas, that if we chose to keep it it'd be worth hiring an outside tech to check it out. I thought I'd call around today and see if anyone within a couple hours were familiar with the spa and would be willing to take a look.

Ultimately though, I think "cplarson" is right - Much better to be represented by a company that will stand by their product! W/o their providing even basic warranty services, we might as well have bought used. Then we could have someone service it when it dies. That or buy new through someone decent. I sure didn't save a dime with this "bargain!!" Ha!!! Expensive lesson to learn. Really wish I'd have found this place prior to purchase.

Will go ahead with return. Again, thank you all very much for confirming my suspicions: That I completely blew it!!! :-)

[lys]

Most tubs are NOT convertable. Some of the smaller ones are.

When Biggz posted pics of his key's backyard spa it had Balboa VS controls, which are convertible. That's why I asked what controls you have. The fact that the controls read out either 120 or 240 also makes me suspicious that it can be converted. Balboa controls tech support is incredibly helpful and friendly. If you have their controls, just email them with the exact info. for your system and they should help you in a matter of minutes. Of course, that's only the first step. You then have to see if you have freeze damage and decide what the best course of action is for you. Good Luck.

Thanks for the info! I'll check if the controls are Balboas. Even though we will probably return the thing, that little mystery is just driving me nuts. I agree with you 100% - it just so muh seems like that's a setting that could be changed.

Thanks!

[B0Darc]

Most tubs are NOT convertable. Some of the smaller ones are.

When Biggz posted pics of his key's backyard spa it had Balboa VS controls, which are convertible. That's why I asked what controls you have. The fact that the controls read out either 120 or 240 also makes me suspicious that it can be converted. Balboa controls tech support is incredibly helpful and friendly. If you have their controls, just email them with the exact info. for your system and they should help you in a matter of minutes. Of course, that's only the first step. You then have to see if you have freeze damage and decide what the best course of action is for you. Good Luck.

Thanks TinyB for your persistence... it's funny how simple the solution might actually be... this time. Because the real problem is people, and a failed business strategy. No one likes to throw away money and everyone loves to make a deal, but the very real, tried, tested, and true strategy is based on people wanting to keep you happy because it's just good business (read profitable!) This is an ancient case of... "It's not my job!"

A spa dealer can't just live on the money he can make by ripping off a long chain of rubes. He has to cultivate relationships by giving smart people satisfaction and no excuses... and he needs to remain motivated by the income he can gain. Yes it might add to the cost of your spa, but if you made a wise decision when you purchased then you not only chose a great spa, but a reliable dealer. Someone who relies on money directly from you, is someone who will strive to make you the happiest. It's ALWAYS his job. I guarantee if the CEO of Home Depot knew about this he would cringe in horror. It's the weakness in the discount store strategy... it relies on gentle human kindness instead of greed... a poor choice of words but you get my point.

Sending back the spa sends a powerful message! Make sure you provide that Service Mgr's name in the process. Make shopping for a dealer equal to your choice of spa, as you can see they are equally important. No service equals NO spa! Call a local Spa Technician and ask him who a great local dealer is, and these guys can help. Good luck! You'll be soaking in no time.

[TinyBubbles]

lvs, did you look on the inside of the cover for the controls? I think it should have everything layed and and show you the different dip settings, positions, etc. Good luck on your return and look on the bright side, when you buy another spa you'll have all the wiring ready to go!

[lys]

A spa dealer can't just live on the money he can make by ripping off a long chain of rubes.

Hey, are you calling me a "rube?" You're exactly right, of course.

[lys]

lvs, did you look on the inside of the cover for the controls? I think it should have everything layed and and show you the different dip settings, positions, etc. Good luck on your return and look on the bright side, when you buy another spa you'll have all the wiring ready to go!

Too funny! Yep, the wiring's all ready that's for sure!

Yes, I did look in the cover. But couldn't find anything in regard to the 120 vs. 240. Settings for lighting, and the controls, etc. Might not have looked hard enough. I will try again. As I said, I just need to KNOW now. Even though return is in process. They're sending me paperwork to fill out then I call the shipping agent. We get to "package it back up as best we can" for shipment, which includes tipping it back up vertically on the pallet. Maybe homeowners insurance will cover it if it gets clobbered in the process? Ha!

Hubby's just THRILLED with me and my "mail-order garbage" surprise, BTW.

Lesson of the day: Spontanaeity and hot tub purchasing are just not at all compatible. Again, I say DUH-ME!!

[IL Parrothead]

Lys,

Don't beat yourself up. Since Home Depot is willing to make good on THEIR promise, and allow the refund, do it. Then go see some dealers of reputable tubs and wet test (get in filled tubs). See what feels best to you and your husband. You'll enjoy the experience so much better and will forget this debacle. (And I'm not a dealer -- just a shopper like you.)

[Roger]

Most tubs are NOT convertable. Some of the smaller ones are.

When Biggz posted pics of his key's backyard spa it had Balboa VS controls, which are convertible. That's why I asked what controls you have. The fact that the controls read out either 120 or 240 also makes me suspicious that it can be converted. Balboa controls tech support is incredibly helpful and friendly. If you have their controls, just email them with the exact info. for your system and they should help you in a matter of minutes. Of course, that's only the first step. You then have to see if you have freeze damage and decide what the best course of action is for you. Good Luck.

Tiny, when I said most are not convertable I did not mean it derogitory towards you. There are alot of tubs with Balboa and other generic controlers that are 120-240 compatable but. Those controls are used in tubs that have 240V motors and heaters and will not convert. In other words it is a 240V tub only, with a generic controler used in several tubs, some 120V-240V convertable, some 120V only and still others 240V only. As seems to be the case here.

[TinyBubbles]

(And I'm not a dealer -- just a shopper like you.)

IL are you getting any closer to soaking?

[Nat]

When we were considering a spa I looked on homedepot.com and suggested we consider a Keys hot tub, since we could "save" at least 35%. My wife basically said, "Don't you dare........." End of discussion. We bought a Watkins Tiger River Bengal and are darn glad we got a major name brand.

BTW, it is 330 gallon and a truely convertable 120/240 volt spa (we found that they are not too common) and we bought it because I did not want to pay for an electrical upgrade (we currently have 150 amp service) on our house if we went with a 240 volt/60 amp tub. The only drawback is that it has one jet pump (and it is a single speed) and the heater can not run when the pump runs, due to the current draw. This is not an issue for us, though. Its on a 20 amp 120 volt dedicated circuit.

If I had a newer house with 200 amp electrical service, I'd opt for a 240 V spa with a couple of jet pumps and lots of jets! Maybe in retirement!

--Nate

[biggz]

I'd love some advice and/or info! We just bought a 6-person Keys Backyard spa through Home Depot. They shipped it on a pallet pump-side down in subzero temps. Apparently the test them before sending (??) or maybe they sent us a return, or? At any rate, we got it set up and found there were gallons of water frozen in the pump. Used heaters and thawed it out and drained it. Not sure the pump even works! When thawed out it filled the center of the tub - where your feet go. Has to have been 20 gallons of water in it. No visible leaks, but have not been able to see if the pump works yet. The pump won't power up to prime. It only clicks.

In the setup instructions it says to check #s cycling on control panel. Last # should be 24 for pumps with 240V system. Ours is 240, but reads 12 (for 120V). Manual says if this happens, to call. Apparently a common problem. We did call and they said it's wired wrong. The Tech first told me it had to be the GFCI, though that breaker doesn't blow and tests fine. Electrician who wired our house, came back out - he assures us it is wired correctly. He even tried circumventing GFCI and wiring direct from the house. So after multiple electrician trips and testing, he says the bottom "leg" on the control panel is not getting juice. All wires hot from house. Used "6 wire" which even the supervisor said was ample. He even switched the two hot wires and says nothing coming out of "bottom leg" on the panel itself. It's like it's getting only 120V. Enough to run panel but not to fire the pump.

So electrician says faulty panel. Company says faulty electrician. (Who I trust completely. He wired our house - passed on first inspection - he's been around forever. I don't think it's the wiring!)

The first guy at tech support was so extremely rude. Told me to "shut up and listen" - then sent me to supervisor voice mail. I called back. Second tech was nicer, but supervisor told me in all his 20+ years, they've NEVER had a problem with the panel and it has to be our wiring. I asked him with his experience what it might be and he didn't have an answer. Though he agreed the pump could be dead from the freezing water. He just kept saying it was the wiring. I asked him how that can be when wired directly from the house - there's only 1 ground, a neutral and two hots coming into the thing. All test fine. So either my entire HOUSE can't support 240 or there's a problem at the panel itself. Supervisor just defended product, said they NEVER go bad, etc. etc.

I asked them to send me a panel - he told me a two week delay and that they'd just send a tech. And that I'd be charged for it since he's sure it's our wiring, but that the tech wouldn't check the wiring itself since he's not licensed. So what if he gets out here and still says it's the wiring? These two are at an impasse and I owe everybody and STILL don't have a hot tub!

Also, when the tub is SHIPPED with at least 20 gallons water and damaged and doesn't work, and I have to pay to repairs - it doesn't seem like much of a warranty, which is infuriating! So I told them I was returning the stupid thing. Starting the fun process of repackaging the spa and shipping back. Home Depot will honor the return.

So I am just wondering if anyone knows anything before I hire help to repackage and crate this thing back out of the yard to ship it back to them. It seems like I'm just missing something! I feel like if I could talk to a REAL support person there'd have been a solution. Anyone with info?? Any ideas would be great!

OR is there somewhere we can just buy the stupid panel? They refused to ship me one. Such a frustrating thing!!

Any help/info would be much appreciated. Otherwise this thing goes back and I give up. Thank you in advance!!!

Wow, you really had some problems with the tub. You had 20 gallons of frozen water? Key fills all the tubs before shipping to check the controls and the pumps. It had to be sub freezing weather in Texas where the tub is shipped from to be able to freeze the water in the pump and lines in the short time it would take them to prepare it for shipping. Maybe they did all of this outside in the cold. Like you said, they ship it vertically, so I'm surprised it didn't drain more water. The 12 and 24 your referring to is the incoming power meter reading to verify if the tub is setup correctly. If it reads 12 that indicates that it is not since the tub is only a 240V tub. Is your electrician licensed? If not Keys voids the warranty as per there instructions. It's unfortunate that you were treated poorly by the customer service. The rep told you to shout up and listen? I hope you made a complaint, but it's probably best that you return the tub for a full refund and get another tub from a dealer like the other members have suggested. 50 miles one way isn't that far to travel. I'm sure you and your husband will be happier with whatever you decide to buy.

Keep us informed with what you decide to buy and let us know how the installation goes. Best luck and don't forget to post pictures.

[lys]

Lys,

Don't beat yourself up. Since Home Depot is willing to make good on THEIR promise, and allow the refund, do it. Then go see some dealers of reputable tubs and wet test (get in filled tubs). See what feels best to you and your husband. You'll enjoy the experience so much better and will forget this debacle. (And I'm not a dealer -- just a shopper like you.)

I sure will. Thank goodness I bought the thing via HD rather than through Keys directly. I'd have been clobbered I think.

Great idea to run about and test in person. All but one of the dealers I know of are several hours away, but that could be a fun outing.

So then, the discussion begs the question - what brands ARE good? If you're a shopper (present tense) I'm guessing you're still looking? This has become more complicated than buying a new computer! Had no idea. I honestly thought a hot tub was a hot tub was a hot tub was a hot tub.

So, starting over enitrely from scratch, any other COs/scenarios (other than the online/bargain box-type) to absolutely stay clear of? I am learning a lot poking about on the board, and will definitely research here more before doing anything else. Neat place!

With the power/panel/electric issue we had, it makes me want to reconsider the wood fired style! Though seems kind of silly. You'd need the tub to recover from splitting the wood to heat up the tub you used to recover from splitting the wood...

Anyway, thanks for your input!! I do appreciate it!

[lys]

Wow, you really had some problems with the tub. You had 20 gallons of frozen water? Key fills all the tubs before shipping to check the controls and the pumps. It had to be sub freezing weather in Texas where the tub is shipped from to be able to freeze the water in the pump and lines in the short time it would take them to prepare it for shipping. Maybe they did all of this outside in the cold. Like you said, they ship it vertically, so I'm surprised it didn't drain more water. The 12 and 24 your referring to is the incoming power meter reading to verify if the tub is setup correctly. If it reads 12 that indicates that it is not since the tub is only a 240V tub. Is your electrician licensed? If not Keys voids the warranty as per there instructions. It's unfortunate that you were treated poorly by the customer service. The rep told you to shout up and listen? I hope you made a complaint, but it's probably best that you return the tub for a full refund and get another tub from a dealer like the other members have suggested. 50 miles one way isn't that far to travel. I'm sure you and your husband will be happier with whatever you decide to buy.

Keep us informed with what you decide to buy and let us know how the installation goes. Best luck and don't forget to post pictures.

Well I didn't measure the water, so maybe 20 gallons is incorrect, but pump was frozen up and when we put heaters under the cabinet for several hours and let it thaw, the part where your feet are was rather full - up to the bottom of the inlet/outets. (If that makes any sense.) Also the drain plugs on the pump were closed tight. So no where to drain out on the journey. I did ask the supervisor if this was from testing it or if they'd just sent me a return. He just kind of snorted - wasn't sure what that meant. I understand they test these, but they'd DRAIN it afterwards, wouldn't they? Maybe someone forgot to open the plug! We diddn't think Texas even GOT that cold, though cold in Denver where it was shipped from the day before. Not sure how long it was bopping about. Bill of lading says shipping was due 5 days before we received it.

At any rate, yes the first tech was just so completely rude. Told me to "shut up and listen," (so maybe I wasn't listening so well - that could be vaild. I do tend to talk too much) Then he sent me to his supervisor. Happy me, a supervisor! Someone who will listen! It was voice mail. So I called back and got a very nice, helpful guy, who listened, or at least had the decency to fake it, who sent me to the same supervisor - this time live. I did complain about tech #1 to the supervisor, which he apologized for. I also made sure I told him second guy was very nice.

Supevisor was irritable. Told me they'd send a tech but it'd take a couple weeks and that I was going to agree to pay for it because there's just no way it was the wiring, though the tech wouldn't touch the wiring so that wouldn't be checked out by them. And I said fine, but if he was wrong and it was their machine, then their tech could just take the tub with him when he left. No, no, no... :-)

Then I asked about the pump and its ice. He said it was likely fried. I told him his tech guy should bring a pump then too. He said they were doing inventory this time of year and that they wouldn't ship a pump until after the 7th (that was coming w/o the tech). So by then, I just said forget the whole thing, I'd be returning it. THEN he was much more pleasant and apologized and said he'd have their "Home Depot Liaison" call me to facilitate return. This was on the 12/27. They called yesterday 01/02.

I had called HD in the interim - it was a 3 minute phone call and they said they'd send paperwork. Haven't gotten it yet, but assuming that's on the way.

So, yes, the electrician is licensed. He's the same guy that wired our new house a few years ago - seems to know his stuff. House works fine throughout and we're not burned down or anything. And I DID ask the supervisor guy - he kept saying in all his years of experience it just has to be the wiring - So I asked him with all that experience if he knew what the electrician might be missing. He said their panels were just "very complicated." I pointed out to him that it looked simple enough to me - a ground a neutral and two hots and I know diddly. I pressed him for an answer, and he asked what wire we used. I told him and he said that was fine, and then didn't have any more input.

So, to the tub all the wiring is new and dedicated and producing electricity on tests. New GFCI thing, the new 6 something wire, dedicated service and blah, blah blah. I DON'T honestly understand it all. Just what I was told. Electrician did say "the bottom leg in the control panel" doesn't have juice though the wires coming in do. So, something is amiss somewhere! But that's all I know.

Oops! Sorry for the lengthy post(s)! Yes, you're right!! I'm sure we will be happier with another tub. (Especially if it works!!! ) Will definitely do the dealer thing next time round. At least then if they tell me to shut up, it'll be right to my face.

[soakerman]

Why not let the Tech look at it. In all fairness any dealer would want to do that and wouldn't ship any parts without knowing the issue. You are getting service and should allow them to do that for you .

[lys]

Why not let the Tech look at it. In all fairness any dealer would want to do that and wouldn't ship any parts without knowing the issue. You are getting service and should allow them to do that for you .

That's very, very valid and is defintely what I asked for! I repeatedly asked him to send someone out. He kept saying there was nothing wrong. Finally he said he'd send a guy out but that he was charging me for the visit even though it's under "warranty." He also said the tech would NOT bring the pump even though he said it was likely damaged. That they would ship out later in the month. Then what? What if his tech shows, I pay for that whether or not they get it working. They ship the pump and we install. What if more damage was there from freezing? More fun calls to customer service? Do I wait another month for them to fix that? Will they stand by that or will they blame the weather or the shipping agent or an act of God, or?

If it was only the panel, or only one issue I'd be more inclined to let them deal with it. But as there are at LEAST two problems that we know of - and as others have said, maybe there are plumbing problems as well. It all made me very leary in dealing with this company. And frankly the customer service was the final straw. The supervisor seemed shocked when I said forget it, I'll just send it back. It wasn't until that moment that he apologized for the rude tech and the problems. Ultimately, do I want to deal with these people down the road when the next problem hits?

I've even considered getting a tech from another company - someone on neutral ground - out to see if he/she could fix it and just going from there. That's why I checked here before I went through with the return. I thought maybe there was something I was missing, some switch to flip, some obvious electrician error, some missing peice of the puzzle, someone else with the same problem who could say, oh! Do this! Again though, even if they did fix everything in a timely fashion, where does that leave me down the road?

This has just left a bitter taste in my mouth for this company and I'm not sure it's something I want to savor for the next several years.

[soakerman]

Why not let the Tech look at it. In all fairness any dealer would want to do that and wouldn't ship any parts without knowing the issue. You are getting service and should allow them to do that for you .

That's very, very valid and is defintely what I asked for! I repeatedly asked him to send someone out. He kept saying there was nothing wrong. Finally he said he'd send a guy out but that he was charging me for the visit even though it's under "warranty." He also said the tech would NOT bring the pump even though he said it was likely damaged. That they would ship out later in the month. Then what? What if his tech shows, I pay for that whether or not they get it working. They ship the pump and we install. What if more damage was there from freezing? More fun calls to customer service? Do I wait another month for them to fix that? Will they stand by that or will they blame the weather or the shipping agent or an act of God, or?

If it was only the panel, or only one issue I'd be more inclined to let them deal with it. But as there are at LEAST two problems that we know of - and as others have said, maybe there are plumbing problems as well. It all made me very leary in dealing with this company. And frankly the customer service was the final straw. The supervisor seemed shocked when I said forget it, I'll just send it back. It wasn't until that moment that he apologized for the rude tech and the problems. Ultimately, do I want to deal with these people down the road when the next problem hits?

I've even considered getting a tech from another company - someone on neutral ground - out to see if he/she could fix it and just going from there. That's why I checked here before I went through with the return. I thought maybe there was something I was missing, some switch to flip, some obvious electrician error, some missing peice of the puzzle, someone else with the same problem who could say, oh! Do this! Again though, even if they did fix everything in a timely fashion, where does that leave me down the road?

This has just left a bitter taste in my mouth for this company and I'm not sure it's something I want to savor for the next several years.

I think you need to relax and let the company fix the spa and if they do have to replace the pump, then let them. A dealer would do absolutely nothing more or less then diagnose the spa with a tech and no parts would be orderd withought knowing the damage. People here have you thinking a dealer is a oasis when in fact they do charge for service calls and do charge if it is the wireing in your home. Nothing is wrong here other then the guy was rude on the phone.

[Pathfinder]

Actually a competent dealer with a proper service divsion would have parts with them and most likely would bring a pump for that particular tub. Since most of us have better thingsd to do with our days than repeated trips to house where a problem can be fixed the first time. If there is an electrical issue from the house, its pretty simple to co-ordinate the call to be there the same time as the electrician.

Thats what a dealer can do for you, not some guy on the phone 5 states away.

[Dr. Spa]

Actually a competent dealer with a proper service divsion would have parts with them and most likely would bring a pump for that particular tub. Since most of us have better thingsd to do with our days than repeated trips to house

Even most incompetent dealers with piss-poor service departments would probably bring a pump with them. Travel time is one of the biggest expences of service work.

BTW, I've seen MORE "licensed" and "master" electricians miswire or fry spas though improper wiring than anything.