polyvue

There's not quite enough information to enable a good answer. How large is the pool in gallons or liters? Type of pool shell? (Gunite/plaster, tile, vinyl, fiberglass etc.) I'm also a bit concerned that the measurements for chlorine and stabilizer (0.15 and 2015) don't seem to fit with what I know. What did the pool store use to determine these test results? It's much more helpful to discuss chlorine in terms of Free Chlorine (FC) and Combined Chlorine (CC) but I suspect that Total Chlorine (TC) is represented here. A Free Chlorine level of .2 (in parts per million (PPM) or mg/L) might be acceptable with zero stabilizer in an indoor pool that used supplemental methods of sanitizing, but that level of chlorine would be inadequate for most outdoor pools. What does the stabilizer consist of? If this is cyanuric acid (CYA) then a reading of 2015 PPM is very unlikely. There are a number of good threads that cover shocking a pool to kill algae. Here's one. Read through some of the threads in this forum that cover shocking and do post back with pool capacity if you need a more specific response.

Welcome to the forum. Other than the rather pricey floating hoses used for automatic pool cleaners that have built-in floats, there are regular vacuum hoses (perhaps you could thread the garden hose inside one?), and a Floating Skimmer.... perhaps you could just do a search for floats and buy cheap ones to tie to the garden hose. Hopefully someone else here is familiar with Leaf Master and can pinpoint what you need.

I used dichlor because I will be changing the water soon anyway and was not too concerned with having it rise too fast. I have heard mixed things about bleach. I have read yours and Nitro's info re: dichlor then bleach method which makes good sense to me. I have had some people at the local dealer tell me to use bleach initially to activate the nature2 cartridge. I have had others say never use any bleach because it is "too strong." My owner's manual says never to use any nonstabilized liquid chlorine product and that it would affect the warranty coverage for the spa. The manufacturer's customer rep says never to use any bleach (she did not know what sodium hypochlorite was) because it is not strong enough- actually said because it is 6% concentration that I would have to use "6 gallons" to get the FC to the proper level! I am so tired of the misinformation and misguidance in this industry. Would love to talk to someone directly in my area that actually understands the chemistry behind the methods (as you do) as I have a science background. SIX gallons?! In a spa? Invite that customer rep over to sit in that concentration for a while!

It happens. At least you know now what you're dealing with!

The CYA (cyanuric acid) level that Paul references is important because of its relationship with chlorine's effectiveness at sanitizing and oxidizing (including destruction of algae). Check out this link -- it's a handy chart that will give you a sense of how much chlorine is needed to maintain sanitation levels and how much is needed to shock. If you're not measuring CYA then you really don't know how much chlorine is necessary. Some CYA is good; too much can defeat your best efforts in shocking or defeating algae. Another useful table is one that shows recommended levels of chemistry for your type of pool. You'll note that some calcium is desirable even in a vinyl-sided pool, and much more if your pool is concrete/plaster or tile. You mentioned color blindness - a remarkably common condition - and there is a chlorine test that will work for you: a FAS/DPD chlorine test. It starts off pink/red and when the right amount of drops are applied to the sample water, all color disappears. It's available separately and in better residential test kits, such as Taylor's K-2006.

My vote would be #1 using muriatic acid, run pump/filter 24/7 for a day or two, then make final adjustments to pH/TA and start on #2 using 6% bleach (unscented) or 12% liquid chlorine.

If this was my spa and I was able to document a 30 PPM chlorine drop in 24 hours I would drain, clean the filters, decontaminate and refill.

I don't know too much about DE filters but if I had a trashed filter that was 18 years old I would replace the entire unit. If you elect to do this you can choose cartridge, sand -- or stay with DE. Nearly everyone believes their filter is best so I wouldn't presume to tell you which to buy. I've been quite satistied with the (somewhat oversized) 425 sq ft cartridge filter I have. If your pool cleaner is run and the skimmer/pump baskets are emptied regularly cartridge filters are the most convenient. Mine is due for its annual cleaning (hosing off) but it has never accumulated debris to the point of increasing the pressure so, theoretically, I could probably let it go two seasons. Two speed pumps are now required in California and I wish I had one. Save quite a bit on electricity costs by running them longer at a lower speed/flow rate.

All of those varied instructions to add Sodium Bicarbonate! I don't think there's a good reason to ever turn off the pump/filter while adding chemicals to a pool. What would this accomplish? Some chems (though prob. not baking soda) can cause a lot of damage if they're not circulated into the water upon application. Keep it simple! Turn the pump on, add the bicarbonate of soda however you wish and be sure it's incorporated into the water by brushing it, stirring it, whatever. It's always good to wait a period of time (which varies for each pool) between additions of different compounds. My pool has a very fast turnover (3 hrs) so I get away with 15-20 minutes between additions. Larger pools or those with a low rate of circulation, no main drain and only one or two return jets should probably pump for 24 hours between applications. Order of adding chemicals is just really not all that important. Under normal circumstances, adjust Total Alkalinity, then pH, then everything else (chlorine, calcium hardness, CYA and, if applicable, borates and salt). Take a couple of days, there's no rush. But do take care to monitor your CYA level closely. Chlorinating with compounds such as TriChlor and Dichlor will rather quickly escalate cyanuric acid (CYA) content. If this were my pool I would pull out the TriChlor floater when the CYA reached 40-50 ppm and use 6% bleach or higher concentrated liquid chlorine on a daily (or twice weekly) basis.

I concur with everything txpoolguy suggested... but I would upsize the filter for a 27K gallon pool to 525 sq ft. I have a 425 sq ft cartridge filter on my 14K gallon pool and it requires cleaning once a year, at most. Other suggestions that may annoy your contractor but help the flow rate: a.) minimum 2" ID PVC throughout but install 2.5" pipe on the suction side; b.) separate suction lines (not tied together until the equp pad) for main drain (if any) and each skimmer; c.) looped returns (equalize pressure of return jets by encircling the pool); d.) install a dedicated line for cleaner --- even if you're considering a suction skimmer-connected cleaner or robot (you may change your mind later & it will be very problematic to install then); e.) install a booster if you anticipate going with a pressure-side cleaner - they just work better; and f.) talk to contractor about installing long-sweep 90s in lieu of standard 90 degree elbows wherever possible. And prior to contract signing, think and then think again about how much deck concrete you want (room for walkways, patio furniture, bbq etc). More is better and way, way cheaper than doing it later. Check out the equipment configuration in my signature, below. If you have questions about any of the equipment on my pool, post back.

It could very well be a faulty cell --- but 6 cleanings in one year is a LOT. I've had mine for 3 years and it's never required cleaning. When you state that your "water is good" it would be helpful to expand on that a bit. What is the typical pH, Calcium Hardness, Alkalinity, Free Chlorine and CYA in your pool? What is the salt reading reported by the PS-4 in the first couple of hours before it cuts out --- and when it does? Have you independently tested the actual Salt PPM in the pool water? And, if so, with test strips, drop tests, meter or via the pool store?

The more concentrated chlorine is much more sensitive to storage conditions than 6% bleach. I had a jug of 12% that probably lost half of its effectiveness from just a few months stored in my (hot) garage. If you're using liquid chlorine as the sole or primary sanitizing source for your pool, you may be able to save some money by buying larger sizes of highly concentrated chlorine. Find out what those 2-4 jug containers cost and do the math. Because I have a SWG cell and really only require liquid chlorine in the winter I've found it just makes more sense for me to buy a few jugs of 6% at the grocery store and then store them in the laundry room.

Please do. Great looking pool; it looks like all-tile on the floor. From the design I would guess this pool is in..... Indonesia? Thailand? Phillipines?

My CYA seems to have gone down when I added some fresh water due to evaporation. Should I just hit it with some dichlor to get the CYA back up. I refilled about 6 weeks ago and have been using bleach for about 5 of them. CYA shouldn't go down for this reason. If your testing shows that it has reduced a small amount that's likely due to testing variabliity. DiChlor is a convenient method to increase both CYA and chlorine. The alternative is cyanuric acid granules or liquid conditioner.

Check out this thread for a general overview and some tips and tricks pertaining to cleaning/maintaining a DE filter.

OK. Presume you know this at least in part because you've checked pressure at the pool cleaner return or by counting wheel revolutions. Is the flow from your eye-ball returns also impeded -- or just at the pool cleaner return? If the problem is at all returns, the next step would be to check flow after the pump/filter. If possible, try plugging some returns or partially shutting off water features, etc to see if you can increase the flow. If the problem is only at the pool cleaner return start by checking feed to booster pump (off the return line) and the flow out from the booster. Inspect flex lines here to ensure they're not crimped, leaking etc. Remaining component is the PVC cleaner line between booster and pool. A flow meter might aid your diagnosis. Beyond this, one of the hydraulics/pump experts on this board may be able to provide more specific advice.

Winters are not as cold here in Sacramento; it seems that a super-majority of pool owners opt for poured concrete with fiberglass coming in a close second. Not too many vinyl pools here but I know they are favored back East. Not sure why -- perhaps they stand up better to all of that heaving during winter/spring thaws.

Having a booster means that you'll probably be a bit happier with the performance of whichever pressure-side cleaner you decide upon. Sorry, I don't have any information on robotic cleaners -- price is not where they shine, anyway. A 40 foot pool length is right at the point where a robotic cleaner starts to make sense; and yet, a booster-assisted pressure-side cleaner should still work just fine. ThePoolCleaner has already been mentioned. You should also consider the Polaris line: model 280, 380 or 3900 Sport ($550 - $900 new). I have the 280 and it is quite dependable in my 16'x29' pool. Check out this matrix of pool cleaners, complete with prices.

A few years ago, after doing a lot of reading in this forum, TFP and PoolForum, I elected to install a salt water chlorine generator (SWG), so that's what I use to chlorinate on a regular basis. Though I have in the past used TriChlor powder (Leslies' Genesis shock) my CYA levels were very low at the time, so I wasn't concerned about adding too much cyanuric acid in the pool. If I didn't have a SWG I would use either 12% pool chlorine or 6% clorox unscented bleach or generic equivalent and check the chlorine levels at least twice a week. The SWG lets me test only once a week and only in the winter do I need to supplement its output with bleach. The only chemical I add nearly every week is muriatic acid (MA) 31.45% -- to keep the pH down to a reasonable level. What else? Calcium chloride to increase CH (rarely needed). Bicarbonate of Soda ("Alk Increaser") to raise TA (rarely needed). 100% Cyanuric Acid granules (aka "stablizer" or "conditioner") to increase CYA. Only add this stuff when the CYA goes down below 40-50 ppm. Sodium Tetraborate (20 Mule Team Borax) to increase pH. I hardly ever need to raise pH. There are pool owners on this forum and others whose seasonal (annual) cost for chemicals is less than $75-$100. It's hard to accomplish that with name brand chemical treatments. Besides the cost, practicing the so-called "BBB" protocol delivers an easier way to treat pool water.

St Louis? (just noticing your username) What type of test kit or meter do you use to get these measurements? If your pool has .4 PPM Total Chlorine and 0 PPM Free Chlorine, you have no active chlorine in your pool. This is precarious because it is the Free Chlorine that does almost all of the sanitizing and oxidizing and prevention (of algae and bacteria/viral growth). With a reading of 70 PPM Cyanuric Acid (CYA) you should have at least 5 PPM of Free Chlorine in the pool at all times. If you reduce CYA (over time via backwashing or splash-out-- or right away, by draining some pool water) the required level of Free Chlorine drops, and you'll have an easier time shocking the pool if the need presents itself. The relationship between CYA and Chlorine is explored here. In addition to the links suggested in my last post, I recommend that you read ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry. It's not just for beginning pool owners... though its content may be a bit foreign to what you've learned from other sources. You're right, of course, to keep your pH down below 8. Reducing your alkalinity (TA) further should help stabilize the pH.

I don't have a check valve prior to my Goldline Aqua Cell but there is a 5 foot straight run between the heater and the cell. I think Goldline mentions this in their installation manual. That probably mitigates any chemical backup, however slight, back to the heater following shut-off.

Did you determine why the water took on the brown color last time? In diagnosing problems such as these it's essential to know the current water chemistry. What are the present levels of pH, Free Chlorine (FC), Combined Chlorined (CC), Total Alkalinity (TA), Calcium Hardness (CH), Cyanuric Acid (CYA) and borates (if applicable)?

Gas heater; Sand Filter; Jandy valve with split return below and to the left; the white box could be a controller or a subpanel, possibly with timer; Jandy valve (suction side) with joined pipes entering main circulation pump (it has a clear lid over the pump basket). Can't tell for sure from the photo but the two pipes adjacent to the downspout may lead to solar panels. 2nd photo: Dirty water -- However, judging from the photo, the deck, coping, tile and plaster look good.

You're employing a 2.5 HP single-speed pump to circulate/filter water for a 7x7' spa? That's way, way too much pump for this system. What type and size of filter do you use, and what is the PSI reading at the filter?

Rain overflow and splash-out (from swimming) will reduce CYA and CH given time. If you want to reduce it quickly, see if there isn't a hose bib on the pressure side (return) piping on your equipment pad. You may be able to pump out some of the water by diverting water from skimmer(s) (which can suck in air causing your pump to lose prime) if there's a jandy valve that controls it, suctioning water only from the main drain. I use an inexpensive (< $100) submersible pump, available at home supply and hardware stores and a garden hose, turn off the pool's circulation system and pump 10-15 inches of pool water at a time to waste (yard, drainage, sewer, street, etc). Refill with multiple hoses to mid-tile and then turn the pool pump on to circulate.