The Pup

More the 2 years of use and no issues or concerns; it still looks new and we are very happy with the Catalina's performance.

Thank you Sir. I will get my water tested for iron.

The following picture shows information on my city water. Question, do I need to use a metal sequestrant (such as Leisure Time Metal Gon) at very refill? I have never noticed staining in the past (or brown water). In fact, the water at the tap is always perfectly balanced from the start. Note: I am currently using a Bromine 3-Step method. Definitions µS/cm = measure of specific conductance n/a = not applicable ND = not detected NTU = nephelometric turbidity unit pCi/L = picoCuries per liter (measure of radioactivity) ppb = parts per billion (micrograms per liter) ppm = parts per million (milligrams per liter) SMCL = secondary maximum contaminant level Public Health Goal (PHG): The level of a contaminant in drinking water below which there is no known or expected risk to health. PHGs are set by the California Environmental Protection Agency. Maximum Contaminant Level Goal (MCLG): The level of a contaminant in drinking water below which there is no known or expected risk to health. MCLGs are set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA). Maximum Contaminant Level (MCL): The highest level of a contaminant that is allowed in drinking water. Primary MCLs are set as close to the PHGs (or MCLGs) as are economically and technologically feasible. Secondary MCLs are set to protect the odor, taste, and appearance of drinking water. Maximum Residual Disinfectant Level Goal (MRDLG): The level of a drinking water disinfectant below which there is no known or expected risk to health. MRDLGs do not reflect the benefits of the use of disinfectants to control microbial contaminants. Maximum Residual Disinfectant Level (MRDL): The highest level of a disinfectant allowed in drinking water. There is convincing evidence that addition of a disinfectant is necessary for control of microbial contaminants. Notification Level (NL): A health-based advisory level for an unregulated contaminant in drinking water. It is used by the California Department of Public Health to provide guidance to drinking water systems. Primary Drinking Water Standard (PDWS): MCLs and MRDLs for contaminants that affect health, along with their monitoring, reporting, and water treatment requirements. Regulatory Action Level (AL): The concentration of a contaminant which, if exceeded, triggers treatment or other required action by the water provider. Treatment Technique (TT): A required process intended to reduce the level of a contaminant in drinking water.

I have an '08 HS Sovereign and it has been a good spa so far.

Good job...I hope it holds tight and dry.

I do not know about cost, but my neighbor's Trex Redwood colored deck around his pool is fading and I believe it has a slight warping problem...he is not happy and told me he was not getting anywhere with the manufacture (I do not know the specifics). He installed his deck a few years ago, so maybe the fading issue is now improved with current production.

Rain and snowfall are some of my favorite spa moments.

I have continuously owned spas since the early '70s and average 3-5 soaks per week for 20-50 minutes at 100F.

Here's what the Hot Spring web site states it should cost to run a HS Sovereign (115VAC circuit): http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_...efficiency.html The average monthly cost* to operate a Hot Spring spa in a 55F average climate (similar to St. Louis, MO) at a rate of 20¢/per kilowatt hour would be: $ 38.40 Remember, your actual cost will vary based upon the model you select and your usage pattern. * Based on a 115 volt Sovereign® spa set at 102°F used 6 times per week; 15 minutes with the jets on, 15 minutes with the jets off during each use. Testing conducted in a Controlled Environment Chamber using continuous Data Acquisition monitoring equipment including Continuous Progression Kilowatt Recording meters, Voltage Measurement probes, Current Measurement probes, Relative Humidity Chamber Measurement probes and Thermocouple probes. We keep our HS (230VAC circuit) spa at 100F, but use the spa for up to 50 minutes 3-5 times per week with about twice the jet run time. Our climate is drier than St Louis, but equivalent in average temperature (56F, but cooler at night during the spring, summer and fall seasons).

We should only compare monthly spa cost in relation to a given energy cost. With respect to my average SoCal tiered energy rates...your spa averages only 3.33kW per day energy use throughout the year...which is very good indeed. Note: Our other home's 420 gallon spa ranges from $19-to-$45 throughout the year with basically the same climate, use and rates. Regarding the HS, it does not vary much throughout the year and I think the $60.00/month energy bill for SoCal is well within reason. However, someone recently posted that one HS spa uses a 24/7 circulation pump drawing only 50W (I have a friend who has a Grandee that draws around 250W). If I understand correctly, at my energy rates, that 50W spa only cost about $8/month before any additional non-circ-pump heating (if needed) or higher horsepower therapeutic jet action takes place. If someone is attributing their HS spa to a $100 or $150 monthly energy cost spike, either they are paying a higher energy use rate, reside at the North Pole, not truly observing the spa's isolated energy use, or there is something wrong with the spa (drawing too much current).

I own a K2106 Bromine kit and it is easy and accurate. I also use test strips for quick readings and have no problems either. I understand many people cannot interpret the test strip readings consistently, but for me...I use/read them the same each time and the results are very closely confirmed by the K2106. There is no reason to mess about with test strips...when using a Taylor works so well.

I received a dozen 50-count Leisure Time test strips with a new spa last year; prior, I had used a K2106 exclusively. I have no trouble using test strips, but it may be due to my preconditioning while using the Taylor kit and then adapting to the test strips for my "casual" or quick before-use checks. You picked a good test kit...so no worries (unless you are color-gradient challenged).

My HS Sovereign runs me about $60 per month (at $0.20/kW) on average (100F water, 3-5 times use per week for 20-50 minutes each, ambient high desert average temps of 56F [winter] and 96F [summer] with mid 20F lows). To be sure, it cost money to operate and maintain a spa...that is just the way it is. However, with the newer HS models you are considering, you are buying a highly thermal/energy efficient spa (you would be hard pressed to reduce energy costs in any significant or material way with regards to current traditional spa offerings). Perhaps there are natural gas, solar heat or wind powered supplementary options to consider to try to get you off the grid...but I guess there is no free lunch with those either. A luxury item like a spa does therapeutic wonders for relaxing my tired old body...it is well worth the price to me, it may be the same for you once you get used to the idea of the true ownership costs with respect to your discretionary budget.

The difference between my '08 HS Sovereign and my '09 Catalina Quebec are somewhat significant (my Catalina uses even less energy and is by far our family's first choice all-around). Regardless, both are great spas and seem to use an expected amount of energy. Also, I live in the high desert with lows in the mid '20s and summer highs in the 90-100F range (averages of 56F [winter] and 96F [summer])...this could be a measurable difference between our situations. Note: I have used my in-line Watt meter all around the house now and I know what all of the big energy user pigs are...and I found out my LED foot-well lights (we have several throughout one of our homes) each use $0.75 per year to operate!

I believe it is the same, just a different delivery systems (filter vs in-line vs. floater):

I am not a chemistry expert...so ignore if that is your only qualifying criteria. However, from a user experience perspective (continuously since the early '70s and counting): I have used the Spa Frog floater Bromine and Mineral cartridges for well over a year and have been maintaining a sanitizer level of 1.0ppm +/- 0.5ppm with no issues. My spa has provisions to use in-line cartridges, but I prefer the option of removing the floater when I am using the spa. I bought my initial purchase of cartridges in-bulk online (typically via eBay, Amazon, etc.). Here is an excerpt from a previous post: http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21953 In one of my spas, I use the Spa Frog yellow (Bromine) and blue (Mineral) cartridge float system. I buy in-bulk and on my last purchase I paid approximately $80.00 for 9 Bromine and 3 Mineral cartridges. Doing a little algebra based on market observed dependent ratios between the two cartridge products...I believe the approximate unit cost for this given purchase was $4.99 (Bromine) and $11.68 (Mineral) per cartridge. Further, my last bulk purchase of 43% MPS cost approximately $128.00 for 50lbs...which relates to 6.25oz per $. My observed monthly water sanitation costs: Bromine cartridge is replaced when expended; for me, it typically will last 3 months with an orifice setting of "3" tethered and floating mid-way between active filter-cycle jets (the manufacture states the cartridge will last 2-4 weeks which is way below my observations). = $1.66 per month. Mineral cartridge, per the manufacturer's instructions, should be replaced every 4 months (I have gone 6 months with no ill effects...which may indicate it does less than advertised). = $2.92 per month. I typically use not more than 2-3oz of MPS per week (CD ozonator; *sanitizer target: 1ppm [+/-0.5ppm]; 420 gallon [as filled]; 100F; 1-or-2 people at 20-50 minutes 2-3 times per week; *1hr/12hrs filtering cycle)...or approximately 10.75oz per month. = $1.72 per month. Total monthly cost to maintain sanitizer levels with Spa Frog: $6.30. Note: This price is dependent on discount out-of-state (no tax) bulk purchases with nominal shipping charges. My wife and I travel, so I rely on the proven 3-step Bromine system because it is very simple, somewhat cost effective and keeps my water crystal clear and odor/irritation free for 4-to-6 months between fills. In fact, I used only 2oz of TA+ and 1oz of pH- over 5 months between refills to maintain water balance. Edit: I have not had to use any water balance chemicals on my latest fill now going on 2 1/2 months. * I maintain my spa's sanitizer levels and daily filtration cycles below recommended minimums (3-5ppm and 2hrs/12hrs respectively) with no ill effects to date. P.S. If my wife and I did not enjoy traveling so much, I would simply use Nitro's method...which I did (with some variation) for more the 10 years with no issues. I have been using some form of the Bromine 3-step method for over 25 years with no issues (other than somewhat higher costs, but arguably lower effort). P.P.S. Please let me know if there is a cheaper MPS way to go: http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21724 For reference (Nitro's methods): Nitro's Approach To Water Maintenance A guide to Water Balance and Sanitation using Chlorine http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13634 Lowering Total Alkalinity How to lower TA, without lowering pH http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19149 Chlorine Demand (CD) What is it, and why you should care http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18706 Decontamination How to Super Shock your Tub http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19115

Per instructions, I recently used a like product for my annual deep clean...and I saw nothing. I am very diligent (read fanatical) about proper water chemistry, sanitation and maintenance. Relatively speaking, I assume my spa was clean and not gummed-up with slime, goo or residual bather-induced filth. ...you might have a relatively "clean" spa too.

I see...I have to use an oxidizer (about 2-3oz per week on average).

Are you just using the SpaNaturally Refills (moss filters) or are you also adding any sort of oxidizer such as non-chlorine shock (MPS) and if so, how much? Are you using no chlorine at all or just a smaller amount? I am just keeping my Bromine around 1 and that is it. No other chems. It stays balanced perfectly. I was fighting the PH and Alk before. Now it stays about 7.5 and Alk is 105 to 120 depending if I am using it more that once a day. Water feels great and much easier to deal with. I really love this product. I am glad it appears to be working for you, but for me, I am doing the same with my Bromine level and have no water issues...without the added cost or use of SpaNaturally. If you were totally relying on the SpaNaturally product as a sanitizer...that would be something of interest.

The easiest long-lasting clear water I have ever know in nearly 40 years of continuous spa ownership is my means of Bromine and MPS...I have not incurred the issues stated above. We do not have any smell concerns...perhaps because we are able to maintain proper sanitation levels with quite low levels (1.0ppm +/-0.5ppm) using a floater (with mineral cartridge) and the spa's ozone generator. However, if I had to buy my spa chemicals from the local spa shop (vs. online in-bulk), I would be back pouring Clorox in a heartbeat.

52F in SoCal. ...I'm smoking a brisket at the moment.

The manual for my "new" spa states the same thing...but I was able to set it to run 1hr every 12hrs (below the manufacturer's recommendation of 2hrs every 12hrs). It has been a year and so far...no issues of concerns. The spa rarely drops more than 1-2F between cycles at 100F (420 gallons as filled) and I have yet to find any slime, scum, debris or film. I can go beyond 5 months between refills (with a load of 2 people, 3-5 times per week for 20-50 minutes). On this spa, I am averaging around 140-160kWhrs per month.

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just completed a year-long electrical use survey on a spa in one of my homes, a 2008 Hotsprings Sovereign. Here are the averaged monthly results (desert climate at 68F average annual temp): 297 kWhrs/month at a nominal rate of $0.20/kW = $60/month The spa is used approximately 30-45 minutes three times per week at 100F with default filtering. Note: I used a Efergy Elite home monitor setup for 208-220VAC. I also have a P3 Kill-A-Watt monitor hooked up to a new oil space heater and I was surprised that it averages 0.90kW/hr (we use it about 4 hours a night at $24 per month). I just re-read the owner's manual and I set it up at a lower capacity...now it averages 0.60kW/hr. I guess there is no way in getting around the laws of thermal dynamic/physics/et al. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5...atalogId=10053)

I drink a glass of water before and after a soak...otherwise, I might get dehydrated.

De-Forming agents are fine to use...but perhaps you should try to treat the root-cause vs. the symptom. Consensus here is (I hope I get this mostly right): - Low pH - Low CH - User hygiene (especially perfumes, makeup, hair products and deodorants) - Residual laundry detergent on swimsuits - Biofilm (low sanitation) See previous post for reference: http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...ic=21616&hl