Dan.The.Spa.Man

I would say that $150 is ridiculous, but Here are some of my thoughts on the extra "sevice charge": 1. Many companies that do in-house service calls during the warranty period of their product have 'travel charges'.....appliance companies, electronics, furnace (repair)companies, and yes most spa companies among many others.... Unfortunately the cost of doing regular business has increased through gas (which is luckily and suddenly lower), insurance, benefits, and other economical factors has caused this practice to take place. 2. Most manufacturers pay a certain amount to the dealer for each service call. Unfortuanately for the dealer and their customer, many manufacturers have not increased their fee to the dealers over the last 5-6 years. Instead of losing money, the dealer is forced to do something, like institute a service fee. 3. Although there are lots of customers that take great care of their investment, there are way too many customers that take advantage of the "warranty" and do absolutely no maintenance to their hot tub and have ruined it for the rest. I have asked customers to do something as simple as taking their filter out to see if that takes care of their 'no heat' problem. After claiming that they did, I drive an hour just to find out that in fact it was the filter, and they did not perform this simple task. Now they expect no charge after you have wasted an hour there, an hour back, and a bunch of gas for nothing? Believe me, this happens many times every week. I used to be a fool and leave notes to people that the filter was dirty or the high limit was tripped due to a dirty filter so please be weary of it in the future. Well after leaving notes at some of these houses 3-4 times with no change it's amazing what a $125 bill will do to change their effort in attempting to solve these problems. Although my company has not imposed this service fee in 40 plus years, I believe we may institute a meager travel fee policy next year.

Wow! I'm sure everyone has heard of the phrase "There's two sides to every story" Well this is the perfect example. VKB, I am the service tech that you spoke with on the phone yesterday, with all due respect every point that you have made on here varies from slightly wrong to greatly wrong. I almost don't know where to start, but I'll give it a try. You make it sound like we were avoiding talking to you by saying that you called 4 times. I believe that you left one message on the machine before we opened. You then called a few minutes after we opened and spoke with me. You first made several complaints about the delivery guys, which I replied that I only fix the tubs so I'm sorry about that and I could pass this info on to the manager on Monday. You then told me that the tub was not heating....so after a bunch of questions back and forth you actually revealed that the tub was 92 degrees, which means it did heat about 50 degrees based on the fact that well water is usually in the 40's. You then asked how long the tub takes to heat up and I said up to 24 hours depending on your actual voltage and amperage draw. Since you still had 5 hours or so to go before the 24 hours was up, I suggested that you wait and see what the temp was at 3pm. You also mentioned that you saw in the manual that it may take 24hours, so I don't understand why you claim that nobody will answer you. You then called back about an hour later and asked how to get the actual temp. to show on the display. John told you that it was not possible and you told him that you were chatting with people on a message board and "a bunch of people" said that it was possible. Is this the message board then where are the posts mentioning that it was possible to display the current temp? You then called back before 3pm and said that it still hadn't heated up any more. After confirming that the wiring was done right, I told you that I would come out tomorrow....not that I would try. Also, you asked me if the tub should heat up faster due to the warm temperature outside, and I said that the fact that the outside temp was 50 degrees would have no affect on the rate at which the tub would heat up, and I never said anything about heating up in 12 hours. Where are we at now? well I just made a trip out as I said and the tub was at 103 degrees and running perfectly. As far as the delivery guys, I have not spoken with them yet but I already am skeptical about several things after seeing your setup (which is very nice by the way). First you told me that they destroyed some bushes because they didn't bring the tub in the way you wanted to. I drove straight into your driveway this moring, and the tub is about 15 feet away. There is nothing but grass within about 80 feet in every direction. Where exactly were these bushes that they ran over? You also told me that they slid the tub all the way across you patio...the tub is on the very end of the patio, all they would have done is slid it off from the spa-dolly onto the exact spot that it is sitting on...this is how spas get delivered. There are specific directions with the Limelight to not put any dollys under the tub, so this is how it is done. I saw no damage to anything. I'm not really sure why you have altered the facts of this story, but our company has been in business for 43 years, and this has not happened by screwing people over. I'll see if I can get ahold of the delivery guys today to hear their end of the story. Enjoy the tub.

I'm brand new to this website and very much a rookie. With that in mind, wondering if anybody knows of a decent service person to come out and fix our leaking Hot Springs, Landmark Hot Tub. I'm located in the south suburbs of Chicago. It appears to be leaking from the Wave Master Pump. Getting anybody from American Sales, the supplier, is like playing telephone tag, and on top of that, they want $69 to travel to my house and $100 for the first hour of labor. They know they have the monolopy on service and I guess feel they can rip you off blind. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. That service charge is a little high but not way out of line. On top of that I personally hate doing seal assemblies on pumps which sounds like it may be your problem. First, the tech will want it full to see where it is leaking, then they have to drain it. Many times the impellar is broken and difficult or impossible to get off. Then the shaft often needs to be sanded down (while the pump is plugged in) or re-threaded. All of these things are 100 times easier to do in the shop. I strongly encourage the customer to try to identify exactly where it is leaking from. If it is the seal assembly I also encourage them to bring the pump in. I almost would rather due it for free or at a low cost in the shop v.s. in the field. Good luck!

What year Geneva is it? I don't know of any fuses in the newer models that have the heater relay board. Did the tech take the jumpers out? They are located just above the incoming power lines.

That is the ozone hose, it won't leak if the power is on because it sucks air when the circulation pump is on. It broke right at the check valve. You need to get a new check valve and reconnect. The other end will be dangling up above somewhere (It loops around up high in the motor compartment). I checked and found there is stiill a hose connected to the ozone. Is there suppose to be 2? I didn't see anywhere on the ozone equipment that suggested another hose connection? I also did not see any dangling hose from the upper area of the motor compartment.... I'm stumped?? No, that's definitely the ozone line, I can still see the blue broken-off piece of the check valve in the end of the hose. The 1/8" ozone line starts at the black venturi 'T' which you can see on the left side of the picture. From there it goes up and loops around a hook up in the motor compartment, then it goes to the barb on the bottom of the ozonator. Somewhere in the middle of this line there is a blue check valve coupled-in to prevent water from siphoning back into the ozonator when power is off. So there are four points at which the ozone hose connects: the venturi valve, top of the check valve, bottom of the check valve, and the ozonator. You need to pull the hose out to find where it has come apart.

That is the ozone hose, it won't leak if the power is on because it sucks air when the circulation pump is on. It broke right at the check valve. You need to get a new check valve and reconnect. The other end will be dangling up above somewhere (It loops around up high in the motor compartment).

If you don't feel comfortable doing it then call a service tech. With that said it's not too hard. First...KILL THE POWER! Take both silver brackets out by removing the few small screws and the grounding lug. Mark and pull out the main wires. They come out by putting a small blade screwdriver in the opening above the wires and gently pry up...the wires then will pull out. Pull the heater wires off the board, and unscrew the grounding lug that the heater ground wire connects to. Pull the three wires off (Red, White, Black) that cross over to the other board on the right. Finally, to get the board to come out, pull from the white clip in the upper right corner. It is pressed onto some pins in the back. Gently pull on it from the top and bottom at the same time. Once the board is out, reverse the process, start by pressing the white clip in the upper right corner onto the pins. *****Also, the new board cones with some silver jumpers above the wire connections...they need to come out for the Geneva model.

So the temp light is on steady now? If so, probably the heater relay board. Look for 'flash' marks around the black relay that the heater wires attach to. If you have a meter you can test for voltage there.

Are you sure that it is getting enough flow through it? If not it may be getting too hot and tripping as it should. Try taking the filters out to see if it helps. If not, I have never seen replacement thermal cutoffs for the No-Fault6000 heaters. You may need to replace it with a newer titanium heater.

Come on somebody help me out here. I would like to get a little guidance here before I tear into this thing lol. First, make sure that the air intake valve (located in the motor compartment) has been changed to a Hartford loop. Even though it is located in the motor compartment, it leaks water out of the front left of the spa (and it could seep over to the back corner). The air intake was either black or white with (2) 3/4" lines and (1) 1/8" line coming out of it. It is located up high somewhere in the motor compartment. You can buy a Hartford loop at a local HS dealer. I'm not at work so I can't check but isn't the bank of ten small 'precision' jets located in that back corner? If so, there was a problem with glue joint leaks in that seat. I would dig out that area first and run the jets to see if you can see water coming out of one of the glue joints.

What is the problem...still the flashing red light? If so, I would say the topside control panel and not the control box. It's pretty rare but sometimes they get taken out from power surges or storms.

Are we talking about a hot tub? Isn't the temperature always the same unless you change it? I don't think the directions are talking about the outside weather temperature, pretty sure they would be talking about the water temp. Although I don't think it matters much anyway.

The thermistors act as the thermostat and high limit. The red light flashing usually means that the high limit thermistor is bad. It thinks the water is too hot and it shuts off power to the heater. Don't worry about the grounging lug on the pump. Are you sure that there is a gasket leaking on the Wavemaster and not the seal assembly? 95% of the time it is the seal assy.

Sounds like there is sufficient flow then. I would switch out the thermistors.

Are you sure the pump is pushing water and not air-bound? If it is working fine then you may need to replace the thermistors that screw into the heater.

Due to increases in gas, insurance, and other factors my store will begin with a trip charge shortly. It also eliminates the 'lazy' customer who refuses to remove their filter or attempt to reset a high limit button on their own because the "tub is under warranty". I'm not saying this about everyone but believe me, it happens a lot. Once they hear that there is a $50, $75 or more service trip fee they are sudddenly motivated to spend 30 seconds to try these things which are generally the cause of their 'no heat' problems to begin with.

There are schematics for the jet units themselves and it kind of shows how it protrudes through the shell. Most jets have 1.5" flexible PVC water lines that attach to them. The smaller jets have 3/4" pvc leading to them. What year tub do you have and what is the problem?

While he is correct about switching from Baquacil over to cl2, its not that hard. The pool might turn a bit brown if there is any Baquacil left in the water its not all that difficult. Water mold can grow in any pool, it doesn’t matter if its on CL2, Bromine, or Baquacil. Actually I had a customer switch from CL2 over to Baquacil Ultra and after he switched the water mold that had been living in his lines was killed. The point is no system is bullet proof, but there are ways to help reduce the chances of having water mold. As for cost, it used to be about 30% more expensive then chlorine but with the price increases that been issued over the past couple of years with chlorine the price difference isn’t all that much, with Baquacil probably being a little more expensive. The cons are as he listed, you are more likely to get a water ring, its a byproduct of Baquacil. You'll have to change the sand in the filter more often then you will on chlorine. The pros are that you only have to check the water once a week, and you add product once a week. Its all PH neutral so once your water is balanced your not going to have to mess with that very often. It makes the water feel softer, and it is much easier on swimsuits and on liners. My store sells Baquacil as well but I wouldn't encourage my worst enemy to use it. It is flat out horrible. Even worse when used in hot tubs. Baquacil is a ton more expensive, there is no way around that. A salt to chlorine generator is the way to go.

If it's a 2000 then the warranty should have ended 3 years ago. How do you know the circuit board had been changed by looking at it? Could you post pictures of the heater?

Check the circ pump with your hand to see if it is vibrating and causing a ripple on the surface of the water. If there is no vibration, no ripple, and the pump is hot to the touch then it is shot. If it is working then I would replace the hi-limit thermistor. My guess is that the circ pump is dead.

As long as there is nothing in the tub that can get sucked down the line then it is perfectly fine.

Make sure it is not the light lens. It it is leaking, the water will not be visible on the motor compartment floor. It would seep down behing the compartment, into the foam, and could leak out anywhere. You may have to take out the metal shield over the light in that year, can't remember. Look for calcium deposits or rust around the lens from inside the compartment.

If it has a circulating pump for heat and it breaks during warranty, any sign of calcium the claim is rejected and you must pay for repair and pump Sounds like the dealer scammed you. I have sent back over 1000 circulation pumps and they have not denied any of them for warranty. Most Cladera spas only have one single speed pump and 1 double speed pump. I think the spas should 2 double speed pumps. This means if it is a single speed it is off or full pressure to the jets. If they were both double speed it would give you a option of a gentle massage no matter what seat you sit in[/color]. That is what the diverter levers and air control valves are for. Each seat is able to be controlled. The covers sag out of the box and puddle water after rain. Covers are covers. I'm not really sure what you mean by they " sag out of the box". Their covers are 2lb density v.s. most which are 1.5 lb or less. If they puddle water then your tub was probably not level and the taper of the cover was countered by the pitch of the pad that the tub was located on. The filter must be kept clean or the circ pump can't get enough water to heat and gives a error message. (Not all Caldera spas use a circ pump) Does it not make sense that if the filter is dirty that it may not operate properly? That indicates to me that the tub has pressure switches and flow sensors that protect the heater from burning up when the customer has not properly maintained the tub. Some people may be annoyed by these error codes but they are better then calling a service tech out to replace a heater that has burned out because the tub lacked such preventative measures. With my other line of spas Coleman they don't sell when comparing the two, Since the Colemans are $1000 cheaper. I know am going to get blasted for this and this just my opinion I just realized that you were a dealer. Not trying to blast, but I'm guessing you have not been in business very long. Cheaper is not always better, as this has been debated in may threads in many ways. In the short term, cheaper spas may sell better, but the longevity and success of the business depend on much more then that.

How do you know the flow switch is ok? Did you test it with a meter? I'll have to look in the diagrams tomorrow...there was some weird engineering back in 95-96 on those.

All I can go by is what my documentation states ( a 4K heater), and the fact that my 2005 Caspian did indeed had a reset switch (and I wasn't the only one to have a 05 Caspain with a reset). If Watkins were putting Tribends in the 05 Caspians, then they weren't documented, and only a technican would know the difference. Regardelss then, If Watkins is not documenting thier heaters accuratley, then a consumer who bought a tub (esp used) may not have the heater he thinks he has and it would be prudent to actually check to see if there's a reset switch. so, A 4K may not have a reset, but an 05 Caspain may well have. How's that? Ok, I figured it out. Watkins changed heaters in the 3rd quarter of '05. Tiger River Spas produced in the first two quarters of '05 had the Tri-bend 6K heaters (which had resets) and spas produced after that had the No-Fault titanium 4K heaters(no resets). You apparently had a tub from the first two quarters but had literature from a tub produced after that with a different heater.