Crack In Pool

[poolyguy]

I need help deciding whether or not his pool can be saved and how.

This house and pool was purchased as a foreclosure and am not sure how to proceed. The pool has a 5 foot long crack from the top to the bottom in the shallow end.

I have had several contractors out to look and most do not return an estimate. One estimate was $5900 to repair the crack, replaster, reset coping and retile. No guarantee that the crack won't return. The equipment (pump filter etc) are newer and in good shape.

The contractor was going to use rebar or torque lock staples on the crack and seal with hydraulic cement. I have heard others use epoxy. What is the best way to go, or is this hopeless and should I have the pool removed? The expense is about the same.

If you know of a good pool contractor near Oceanside California, let me know!

Also has anyone tried fiberglass resurfacing?

Please HELP!

Here are pictures:

[quantumchromodynamics]

Overall, I would say that your best course of action would probably be to remove the existing pool and put in a new one.

You should have a geotechnical engineer design a solution for making sure that your new pool will not settle. This may include a pier and beam design, and possibly other design elements like retaining walls and erosion control.

If you want to try to save this one, I would recommend that you contact a foundation repair company, like Ramjack. They have several offices in California. They can assess your situation and design a solution. http://www.ramjack.com/

They may want a geotechnical engineering consultation, but that can get expensive. An engineer will usually want to do a core sample to evaluate soil stability and load bearing capacity. They can also design a custom solution utilizing such things as piers or piles. This is the safest method, but it may be out of the budget.

For you situation, a foundation repair company will typically install about 10 helical piers. The helical piers are typically 4-inch diameter steel pipe that contains a helical auger at one end. The pipe is drilled into the ground until a predetermined amount of torque is reached. The pipe comes in sections that are bolted together as the pipe goes into the ground. The pipe is cut to length and a 90-degree bracket is used to support the concrete. This should stabilize the pool and prevent further settling.

The helical piers cost about $1,500.00 to 2,000.00 each, not including excavation to access the underside of the concrete.

The pool can be re-leveled, if necessary, by jacking the pool back to grade using hydraulic jacks and pumping concrete under the pool through holes in the gunite, or by removing the coping and tile and resetting them at the proper level.

Ideally, you would want a foundation repair company that specializes in sinking foundations, a pool company that specializes in concrete renovations, and a geotechnical engineering company to work together to design the best solution for you. If limited money is an issue, I would just go with the stabilizer piers at a total of about $15,000.00 to $20,000.00.

Another issue is that settling puts stress on underground PVC pipe and you are at risk for pipe damage. Be sure to monitor for leaks.

Structural cracks can be repaired using an epoxy-injection method. If the crack is just superficial in the plaster, the crack can be cut to the depth of the plaster (about 3/8-inch to 5/8-inch deep) and about 1/4-inch wide, and patched with plaster.

Also, see this link for more information:

http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/foundation_repair/

[JFS]

I need help deciding whether or not his pool can be saved and how.

This house and pool was purchased as a foreclosure and am not sure how to proceed. The pool has a 5 foot long crack from the top to the bottom in the shallow end.

I have had several contractors out to look and most do not return an estimate. One estimate was $5900 to repair the crack, replaster, reset coping and retile. No guarantee that the crack won't return. The equipment (pump filter etc) are newer and in good shape.

The contractor was going to use rebar or torque lock staples on the crack and seal with hydraulic cement. I have heard others use epoxy. What is the best way to go, or is this hopeless and should I have the pool removed? The expense is about the same.

If you know of a good pool contractor near Oceanside California, let me know!

Also has anyone tried fiberglass resurfacing?

Please HELP!

Here are pictures:

I had a crack in my spa and went with epoxy injection to try and save money, it didnt work and the contractor warned me it might not. The most important thing is to find out why it cracked in the first place.Maybe something like a liner might be most economical way to go.-Joe

[poolyguy]

OK! So in other words you are saying tear this baby out and fill in the hole. That is the only alternative I see on my budget.

Any other ideas?

[quantumchromodynamics]

Patch the cracks with a mixture of white cement and marble aggregate. Acid wash the pool. Fill, start and hope for the best.

[Pool Clown]

I have had good luck with epoxy injection. If you PM me with a little better location of where your'e at, My guy might be able to travel and take a look.

[jkusmier]

If Pool Clown is offering advice, I'd take it to the bank. Good luck!

[poolyguy]

Thanks for all your advice.

One guy wanted to use this polyurethane injection method: http://webac.com/

Check it out and let me know what you think. It looks good to me because it is elastic, so if there is any more settling....

Here is the company website that came out to look: http://crystalleak.com/

.........Pool Clown: The pool is in Oceanside Ca 92054. North San Diego County

[Pool Clown]

For some reason i thought oceanside was between L.A. and the central coast. So What did crystal leak say? I'm glad you had someone out to look at it, other than acting on what we say, (none of us even seeing the job). I've had a pool before cracked from the tile to the floor on both sides and epoxy injection worked real well.

Good Luck. Let us know how it goes.

[quantumchromodynamics]

One of my primary concerns is the settling that caused the crack in the first place.

For a structural crack to be that large there must be substantial soil stability problems. I think that if the stability is not addressed, there is about a 90 to 95 percent chance that the crack will redevelop within 1 year. That is why I recommended a foundation repair company to at least evaluate and advise.

Of course, you can just repair the crack and hope that it doesn't redevelop, but you should make an informed decision based on the risk.

[poolyguy]

I have had about 6 or 7 different pool people out. Crystal leak is the only one who "said" that they would "guarantee" the crack repair. Two of the people said tear it out and start over.

The ones that gave bids had different methods of repair: hydraulic cement, epoxy, and Crystal Leak was polyurethane: www.webac.com

So you can see why I am confused. No real consensus.

[Pool Clown]

I guess i would go for the guy that offered a guarantee (no kidding). Find out what they will do if the crack opens up again. Will they redo? Or do they have a plan B (makes a repair under water with something else)? I figure worst case, you loose all the water (pump out, not leak out) to make the repair repair. I looked at their website (and their videos), and it appears they do a lot of this, On account of they bought all the cool application tools. Get the guarantee in writing of course. I'm sure your going to have them do this but i'll say it anyway, have them do the injection repair as opposed to the topical repair.

Let us know what you do, and how it goes.

[4serendipity]

Given the condition of the pool according to the pictures I would not rule out the possibility of repairing the crack. The decking around the pool gives no indication that the deck is heaving or sinking, which would be expected in a pool with migrating soil conditions. There are a few circumstances related to proper pool maintenance that when not observed could result in a crack forming similar to what you are seeing. That means the crack might not be a result of a total pool failure, but instead a result of improper maintenance which could be mitigated if you can get the pool system back to the condition it should be in.

Since the pool looks to be in less than good condition currently it is possible that you have a problem with the hydrostatic relief valve in the main drain. I have seen a few concrete pools that developed cracks like this when the hydrostatic valve is replaced with a plug, or when the mechanical spring inside the valve fails not allowing the water table to balance with the water in your pool. In periods of high water tables the pressure on the pool shell is immense and could cause a failure similar to what you see here.

If this were my pool I would cut out the cracked area as per the directions with hydraulic cement. I would inject a flexible concrete crack filler into the crack recesses and then fill with an expanding, waterproof hydraulic cement. Instead of using a new plaster (marbelite) I would recommend a simple acrylic paint as this is your cheapest short term solution to get the pool up and running. If you can get the pool opened and the water cleaned up then you can further inspect the main drain situation as well as assess the condition of the rest of the pool. The acrylic paint will only last a season or two but should provide enough time to determine the actual condition of the pool as well to find out if the crack continues to migrate. If you can last a season or two without the crack reappearing then you can be more confident in spending the money to retile and plaster the pool. Dont forget to pressure test all the plumbing lines in the pool to make sure there are no other leaks also.

Removing the pool and completely replacing with a new pool is so expensive I would actually recommend to move before you consider this as an option. As much as I hardly ever recommend to do so, I would rather see a vinyl liner hung in this pool as opposed to removal and replacement of the entire shell. Where I live in Canada a re/re of an entire gunite pool in an existing house could cost as much as 75k or more.

I hope this information is helpful.

S

[LinerMFGr]

Skimming over the posts as thoroughly as time allows me to, this time of year, I saw no mention of converting the pool to receive a liner. That seems like the only real long term solution to your problem. I suspect the job would cost under $5,000--but I'm really only offering an educated guess at the price.

The benefit to a vinyl conversion is the liner will conform and adjust as the pool continues to settle. Some concrete pools are very difficult to convert to vinyl, but, judging by the pictures, this pool would be relatively easy being that the walls are close to plumb (vertical) and the transition from wall to floor is somewhat defined.

Good luck to you,

Jeff

[quantumchromodynamics]

The original post says:

"The pool has a 5 foot long crack from the top to the bottom in the shallow end."

Based on the picture, I think that the crack in the gunite probably goes down one wall, across the bottom and up the other side. It may not be visible, yet, but I think that when the water is put in the pool it will probably become quite evident.

[quantumchromodynamics]

There are a few circumstances related to proper pool maintenance that when not observed could result in a crack forming similar to what you are seeing.

I would like to know what circumstances related to proper pool maintenance you think could result in such a crack.

[4serendipity]

There are a few circumstances related to proper pool maintenance that when not observed could result in a crack forming similar to what you are seeing.

I would like to know what circumstances related to proper pool maintenance you think could result in such a crack.

A hydrostatic relief valve is a mechanical contact. Mechanical contacts by nature wear out over time and are thereby classified as a maintenance item. If you do not periodically inspect and replace the hydrostatic valve it will eventually not operate leaving your pool completely unprotected against lifting, heaving and cracking.

If you have any other questions about swimming pools please let me know and I will be happy to help you.

S

[poolyguy]

Skimming over the posts as thoroughly as time allows me to, this time of year, I saw no mention of converting the pool to receive a liner. That seems like the only real long term solution to your problem. I suspect the job would cost under $5,000--but I'm really only offering an educated guess at the price.

The benefit to a vinyl conversion is the liner will conform and adjust as the pool continues to settle. Some concrete pools are very difficult to convert to vinyl, but, judging by the pictures, this pool would be relatively easy being that the walls are close to plumb (vertical) and the transition from wall to floor is somewhat defined.

Good luck to you,

Jeff

Can you recommend a contractor near Oceanside CA 92054 that installs viny liners?

Thanks,

Greg

[Pool Clown]

Vinyl liner. I Didn't think of that. Kill two birds with one stone! That will cost less too.

S,

If the wieght of the water in the pool is pushing out, and the wieght of the water outside the pool is pushing in, wheres the force to crack the shell coming from?

[quantumchromodynamics]

There are two primary ways I think that this crack could have happened.

First, is if the pool were empty and the ground water was at about the level of the shallow end. This would cause hydrostatic pressure on the deep end but not the shallow end. This would force the deep end up and the crack would be at about the transition from deep to shallow. I have seen this happen.

However, there would almost definitely be a significant lift in the deep end and it does not look like there is any significant lift. According to the picture, the tile looks almost perfectly level on both sides of the crack. And, the crack would be evident across the entire pool.

Second, is soil instability. I think that this is most likely.

It does appear that "S" is implying that a hydrostatic valve failure could cause a full pool to lift, heave or crack. "S", is that what you meant? A full pool will not float. If the pool is drained, the ground water has to be actively managed. You cannot rely on a hydrostatic relief valve. A pump can easily remove water faster than a hydrostat can allow it to come back in.

Question for the Original Poster:

What is the level of the ground water where this pool is? Are there any natural water features nearby to use as a reference? Lake, river, stream, pond etc?

[4serendipity]

It does appear that "S" is implying that a hydrostatic valve failure could cause a full pool to lift, heave or crack. "S", is that what you meant? A full pool will not float. If the pool is drained, the ground water has to be actively managed. You cannot rely on a hydrostatic relief valve. A pump can easily remove water faster than a hydrostat can allow it to come back in.

I was referring to the pool cracking or lifting as a result of a high water table (like in spring time) when the pool water level is down significantly due to winterization (or prolonged water loss over the winter season). Not every pool has a sump tank installed next to it to mitigate ground water issues. Over time, especially in developing areas, the water table can change drastically so a pool that had little to no ground water when it was built may have significant ground water when it is drained for renovation / repair 20 years later. The hydrostatic relief valve is your last line of defence against hydrostatic pressure, and sometimes your only line of defence when there are no other viable options for controlling ground water.

S

[quantumchromodynamics]

I was referring to the pool cracking or lifting as a result of a high water table (like in spring time) when the pool water level is down significantly due to winterization (or prolonged water loss over the winter season).

A pool will not float until the ground water is significantly higher than the pool water. The force pushing up on the pool is equal to the weight of the water that the pool displaces. The force holding the pool down is the weight of the water in the pool plus the weight of the concrete. There is no need to drain the pool, for winterization, lower than the tile.

The hydrostatic relief valve is your last line of defence against hydrostatic pressure, and sometimes your only line of defence when there are no other viable options for controlling ground water.

You can always put in well points to control the water table.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Another question for the original poster:

Is the crack as wide as it appears in the picture? Is all of the dark line part of the crack, or is some of it algae? I'm thinking that the crack may look significantly larger in the picture due to dirt and algae. If possible, could you clean the area and try to get a better picture?

[LinerMFGr]

Can you recommend a contractor near Oceanside CA 92054 that installs viny liners?

Thanks,

Greg

I'll Private Message you.

[AMG]

That pool looks real familiar. I saw a house just like that in Mira Mesa with a beat pool looked like it. I thought maybe that was it till I saw Oceanside. Good luck buddy.