This Is Pa's Position On Cya Acid

[wireman]

Read it and make your own decisions.

http://www.dsf.health.state.pa.us/health/c...80&q=234664

"What are the effects of higher levels of cyanuric acid? – As the level of cyanuric acid rises, the “killing power” of the free chlorine residual weakens. At above 50 ppm of cyanuric acid, the time it takes to kill bacteria in the water is much longer compared to swimming pool water without cyanuric acid. As the level of cyanuric acid builds up, the chlorine will become increasingly less effective in keeping the water clean and problems such as increased cloudiness in the pool water, high bacterial test results, and even algae growth can occur."

[waterbear]

They also state that CYA should NEVER be used in a hot tub or spa. That would include using a stabilized chlorine such as Dichlor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is the quote:

"Should cyanuric acid be used in hot tubs or spas? – At even moderate levels of cyanuric acid, the amount of time it takes chlorine to kill pseudomonas aeruginosa (the bacteria that causes "hot tub itch") can be as much as a hundred times as long as in a hot tub or spa without cyanuric acid. For this reason, the Pennsylvania Department of Health does not recommend the use of cyanuric acid or stabilized chlorine in any hot tubs or spas."

(That only leaves liquid chlorine--same as bleach, cal hypo--HTH sells this for spa use, and lithium hypo--very expensive and the only advantage over bleach is that it's granular and over cal hypo is that it does not raise CH! For cost effectivness and minimal side effects bleach is the way to go!!!!!!!)

Any "Spa Professionals" out there care to comment on this and why they still say dichlor is the ONLY form of chlorine to use in a spa and that CYA does not matter? (Think about it, dichlor is easy to stock, liquid chloirine is not, lithium hypochlorite is so expensive most people won't pay for it, cal hypo raises calcium hardness and has a tendency to cloud the water if the TA is high! These guys want to keep their profit levels up so they push dichlor!) Sorry guys, you lose!

And if you wonder, I do work in the industry (retail pool and spa supply).

I've said it before and I will say it again, a chlorine spa is going to involve some work if you do it properly. It's not that hard but you do have to attend to the spa daily. If you want to ignore it for maybe up to a week at a time you are better off on a three step bromine system or bigunaide (with all it's drawbacks)! (Two step bromine is almost as much work as chlorine.)

Personally, I prefer chlorine in a spa. The work involved amounts to about 5 minues a day to maintain it properly once you get the hang of it. If you don't want to do the maintenance then maybe you should not own a spa. While I'm on my rant I have to add GET A GOOD TEST KIT AND DITCH THOSE STRIPS! You might find that your water balancing actually becomes easy!

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh but the recent attacks against chemgeek by a 'professional' who got chemgeek to stop posting here and who then conveniently disappeared fromt the forum has me a bit 'on edge'! I guess the 'professional' had to protect his profit margin! He didn't try it against me even though I recommded exactly the same thing chemgeek did because he said I work in the industry! Hmmm, makes no sense to me at all!

[TinyBubbles]

This is a really helpful thread and it helped me realize I am on the right track. Only one article from one state back in 2003 saying no cya. I got really scared when I read about high cya levels here. I've searched the internet, received info. from the cdc, spoken to spa owners that have used dichlor for years and called numerous spa stores. All the info. I've found has eased my fears. If I keep my sanitizer level up I will be fine. The cdc says fc levels under .5 ppm allow the pseudomans bacteria to multiply rapidly as well as allowing biofilms to form. They said that at .5 ppm fc pseudomas is killed in seconds. They recommend that you maintain a fc level of 2-5 ppm in your spa which will make up for the cya in the water. Draining and refilling is important and should be based on useage. After owning a spa awhile it's easy to tell when the water is getting old. There are test strips you can buy to test your tds. Regardless of what type of chlorine you use, you can not allow your spa to operate for any amount of time with no residual fc. If it helps alleviates anyone fears, this is the only forum where anyone is concerned with cya. There are many people online that you can find that have used dichlor for years with no problems. When I called around to spa dealers and chemical stores, they all asked why I was concerning myself with cya. You can never be too careful, so I don't think it hurt to look into it. I tried using bleach, but I personally had problems with ph and no fc residual. I thought this was ok until I got cloudy, foul smelling water. For me, dichlor is just easier. I throw it in after a soak and if I don't soak for a day, that's not a problem. My ph stays constant. Even with dichlor useage, I've learned through my research that I was keeping my fc levels too low. I think it's important that people don't get caught up in proving that their way is right or the only way. We just need to share our opinions and experiences and hopefully people can use them to find the routine that works for them. It's just a forum on the internet where people discuss hot tubs. Nobody should get mad and nobody should be unkind to anyone else. So for the record, these are just my opinions based on the research I've done.

[waterbear]

Funny, the CDC only has a position on how much chlorine is needed in case of a fecal accident. Also, much of the data that is used to say that CYA is not a problem is based on the Pinellas County study which was subsidized by a manufacturer of stabilzied chlorine and the study is suspect when you look at the data. It is only very recently that the effects of CYA on sanitation are being recognized even though the research that supports it goes back to the 70's. Does CYA interfere with santiztion? Well, it certainly interferes with ORP readings and that is pretty much how they determine the sanitizing ability of chlorine, with a 650 mv reading considered being adequite. Check with the CDC on the incidence of water borne illnesses attributed to spas. It's quite high and probably higher than reported since the cause and effect is often overlooked.

New York state had a total ban on CYA in pools or spas and it could only be used with a special permit so it is not only PA that has or has had restricitions. I believe they have changed their stance since some CYA is beneficial, as we all know. Most states do not legislate the levels of CYA permitted or allow them to go rather high. Here in FL a commercial pool or spa is permitted up to 100 ppm CYA before it must be closed but the recommened range is 30-50 for pool and below 40 for spas. We are actully one of the more conservative states in this respect but we do have suggested FC levels that are higher than the 1-3 ppm that are often suggested and that have been found to be too low when CT studies for different pathogens are done.