Which Spa Should I Buy?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I just read all 4 of footsie posts ( a lot wow) and some times things happen. But you just can't hold on to that 1 bad experience, nor do you know how much exaggeration is in footsies 4 post. If footsie is reading this write in and tell us how the tub is doing now. It still doesn't give your position of not caring this spa or at least at the exact same price point. Your in business to make money, I thought but some of the people arguing about how great the "high end" tubs are seem to miss that the average Jane and Joe is not just going to lay down $5-6K for a hot tub in these time. Please don't take this wrong but, there's power in numbers that's why Walmart is Walmart and you are you.

Sure, Wal-Mart sells on volume and the price is great but IMO you don't get a great product, or very usable warranty, just a great price. This is why I always say that the Costco, Wal-Mart, Home Depot spas are fine for DIYers who can say "yeah, it's not eh greatest but I'll fix it when issues arise and I’ve upgraded the insulation".

The problem with dealer is not just that they need to sell at a higher price to make their business model work, the other issue is service is everything to them and there is no way they could put these on the floor because they'd have to factor in the cost to service them too. Dealers drop spa brands that cause them warranty issues as it is, Keys would not be something I'd want to have to baby-sit. Wal-Mart and the others don't because they leave it to the manufacturers who often do a dance when you want your warranty utilized and people find out just what that downloadable warranty is worth as Footsie did (and she's a long time, reliable poster which is why I know of her plight).

Am I saying you got a bad deal? Not necessarily, it all depends on what you think you got. Some people try to say they "saved" $4k on their purchase but I counter that they just "spent" $4k less.

[biggz]

I just read all 4 of footsie posts ( a lot wow) and some times things happen. But you just can't hold on to that 1 bad experience, nor do you know how much exaggeration is in footsies 4 post. If footsie is reading this write in and tell us how the tub is doing now. It still doesn't give your position of not caring this spa or at least at the exact same price point. Your in business to make money, I thought but some of the people arguing about how great the "high end" tubs are seem to miss that the average Jane and Joe is not just going to lay down $5-6K for a hot tub in these time. Please don't take this wrong but, there's power in numbers that's why Walmart is Walmart and you are you.

Sure, Wal-Mart sells on volume and the price is great but IMO you don't get a great product, or very usable warranty, just a great price. This is why I always say that the Costco, Wal-Mart, Home Depot spas are fine for DIYers who can say "yeah, it's not eh greatest but I'll fix it when issues arise and I’ve upgraded the insulation".

The problem with dealer is not just that they need to sell at a higher price to make their business model work, the other issue is service is everything to them and there is no way they could put these on the floor because they'd have to factor in the cost to service them too. Dealers drop spa brands that cause them warranty issues as it is, Keys would not be something I'd want to have to baby-sit. Wal-Mart and the others don't because they leave it to the manufacturers who often do a dance when you want your warranty utilized and people find out just what that downloadable warranty is worth as Footsie did (and she's a long time, reliable poster which is why I know of her plight).

Am I saying you got a bad deal? Not necessarily, it all depends on what you think you got. Some people try to say they "saved" $4k on their purchase but I counter that they just "spent" $4k less.

Spatech, you argue your side gallantly and at least it's your opinion but there are a whole lot of people who are buying tubs in this entry level price range of $3-4K from the big box stores and are happy with their purchases despite what your opinion is. Their tubbin, and if the dealers want their business their going to have to offer more then an opinion. They need choices in that price range and I don't mean the Softubs and Dream makers of the world. But it's silly to beat up the customers who didn't drink the Koolaid. The dealers say the big box stores and Internet retailers are no good for one reason or another, and where do they get their message out? Certainly not to the 4 or 5 potential customers who may visit their stores and do the wet test. They do it on the Internet. Isn't that funny.

Since Keys isn't something you want to baby sit, that's why Walmart and the other big box stores get the big sales. As far as the warranty, do you really think you can convince people who want a tub to buy and have a $4K budget buy a more expensive tub because of a warranty ,and pay twice as much to boot. People are turned off by scare tactics. It's not working. What, you don't think Walmart could buy out the biggest High end Spa builder. Sure they could and make change, and probably still sell the tub for a more competitive price. I think a lot of dealers would really have to rethink their business models then.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

As far as the warranty, do you really think you can convince people who want a tub to buy and have a $4K budget buy a more expensive tub because of a warranty ,and pay twice as much to boot.

You're absoultey right, that $4k difference is not just the warranty. There are other things involved; it's all about value. I think you're getting a good price on your spa but I don't think it compares to a Sundance, Hot Springs, Marquis, etc. The $4k difference is in the quality of build, some of the components, the warranty (and its follow through), the insulation for sure... and the fact that I think in general these big box spas stand about a 20% chance of being in the landfill at 6 yrs, 50% of not lasting 10 years, and so on. The 3 premium spas I mentioned are maybe 3% and 10% over those spans respectively IMO.

I'm not saying your spa is not a worthy buy; in the end maybe they are each priced appropriately. There are a lot of people unable, unwanting or unwilling to buy spas from dealers and the market creates what people want. I only disagree with those who think their $4k big box spa compares equally with most of the premium spas out there. They're getting a spa worth $4k in my mind, they have't bought a dollar for fifty cents. At the same time there are some premium priced spas like Thermospas, Master and Cal that (IMO) are not great values so there are two sides to any story.

[biggz]

As far as the warranty, do you really think you can convince people who want a tub to buy and have a $4K budget buy a more expensive tub because of a warranty ,and pay twice as much to boot.

You're absoultey right, that $4k difference is not just the warranty. There are other things involved; it's all about value. I think you're getting a good price on your spa but I don't think it compares to a Sundance, Hot Springs, Marquis, etc. The $4k difference is in the quality of build, some of the components, the warranty (and its follow through), the insulation for sure... and the fact that I think in general these big box spas stand about a 20% chance of being in the landfill at 6 yrs, 50% of not lasting 10 years, and so on. The 3 premium spas I mentioned are maybe 3% and 10% over those spans respectively IMO.

I'm not saying your spa is not a worthy buy; in the end maybe they are each priced appropriately. There are a lot of people unable, unwanting or unwilling to buy spas from dealers and the market creates what people want. I only disagree with those who think their $4k big box spa compares equally with most of the premium spas out there. They're getting a spa worth $4k in my mind, they have't bought a dollar for fifty cents. At the same time there are some premium priced spas like Thermospas, Master and Cal that (IMO) are not great values so there are two sides to any story.

Spatech, I respect your admission that there are some High End spas that may not be the best value. You put yourself on the line. Beware, the Intergalactic Dealer Empire Police may put you on their watch list. Seriously, I never said that the Keys is of the same quality as one of the big 3 spa makers you mentioned. But using your numbers your saying that I or anyone who buys Keys has a 20% chance the tub will end up in a landfill, but that also means it has a 80% chance that it won't. and a 50/50 chance that it makes it to 10 years. Spatech, as a new tub owner I'd rather pay $4K and learn all the potential nuisances of owning a tub,so that I can appreciate a more expensive tub if need be. If I decide to buy a tub in 7 years that's 2014. I'll buy another Keys if this one gives me 80% service for 6-7 years, and pay $4k. Brand new 2014 Keys. I be tubbin tubbin baby

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Spatech, I respect your admission that there are some High End spas that may not be the best value. You put yourself on the line. Beware, the Intergalactic Dealer Empire Police may put you on their watch list. Seriously, I never said that the Keys is of the same quality as one of the big 3 spa makers you mentioned. But using your numbers your saying that I or anyone who buys Keys has a 20% chance the tub will end up in a landfill, but that also means it has a 80% chance that it won't. and a 50/50 chance that it makes it to 10 years. Spatech, as a new tub owner I'd rather pay $4K and learn all the potential nuisances of owning a tub,so that I can appreciate a more expensive tub if need be. If I decide to buy a tub in 7 years that's 2014. I'll buy another Keys if this one gives me 80% service for 6-7 years, and pay $4k. Brand new 2014 Keys. I be tubbin tubbin baby

Beside the issue of how long the spa lasts there is also the issue of how much heartache and $ it costs to keep it going but I think you get the idea.

I think the big box route is too much of buy and pray approach. As with anything you buy, if you go in with your eyes open you'll be much better off. I've seen some people with their hands over their eyes and earplugs in place trying to convince me they just found an $8k spa for $4k. You seem to have a pretty good grasp on the direction you went and I wish you the best.

[mark2550]

These type of responses crack me up I used to buy the high dollar items , for example I still own a 1997 lexus sc400 call a dealer and ask their rate for spark plugs to be installed it's like $275.00 to $350.00 they gotta be crazy. I recently bought a used 9 year old spa with original pumps looks like the 24 hour circulating pump has been changed out and this was a home depot or lowes spa the 2 repairs I've had to do has been a total cost of $60.00 one due to the prior owner leaving water in the tub and the other due to someone twisting air divertor knob to hard. I will take this tub over my lexus due to a more simpliar design and more affordable parts probally generic like waterway and magnetec motors but my lexus is very expensisive to maintain and it only has 80,000 mile on it, in it's day it was cream and still is in my opinion but when something does break down which is few and far between I wish it was a gmc or ford much easier on the pockect book.

[D.P. Roberts]

You know who else charges too much? Car dealers! If you want a new small car like a Civic or Corolla, both Honda and Toyota charge over $14,000! The average person can't afford that. Honda and Toyota are trying to rip people off! Personally, I bought a 1974 Chevy Nova for only $4,000. That saved me over $10,000 compared to a Honda or Toyota! That's $10,000 worth of repair money I can save up before it costs the same as one of those "big brand" new tubs! Sure, it won't be as efficient so I'll spend more on gas, and it's not as comfortable, and it belches fumes, and the 8-track player is stuck on "Elton John's Greatest Hits". And I got to learn all about spark plugs and carbor.. carbarat... fuel injectors and all that stuff. And I don't mind that it breaks, because I prefer to spend my time fixing my car instead of doing things that I enjoy, like lawn bowling. Besides, real men should know how to fix cars, right? So all you people who drive Hondas and Toyotas are money-wasting, know-nothing girlie men. No offense.

[TinyBubbles]

biggz, you seem really straight up. I hope you stay around after you get your tub. I'd love to hear your experiences with your tub. It seems from your posts that you would probably be honest and tell us the good, the bad and the ugly. Hopefully, you'll only have the good. Your point about the "harsh" winter climate where you live is very valid. Unfortunately, my winters aren't that mild, but I do live in the south. The Atlanta area, to be exact. I think it's great for people to share their opinions, but I'm sorry that anyone calls your purchase a pos. We had friends several years back that bought a dream maker. The man asked my husband to help him move it. My husband was dreading it. He was trying to remember how they built the pyramids, in order to save his back. He got there and they just picked it up and moved it! Now that is a spa that is low quality. We got in the spa with them that night and our knees all touched each other. But you know what, we had a great time sipping champagne and relaxing with friends. They loved that tub. A year later, they got divorced and had to sell their house. Thank goodness they hadn't sunk $10k in the spa. Viva la difference!

[flibotte]

I’ve had my Keys tub for over two years now and I don’t think it’s as bad as some people make them out to be but on the other side of the coin it isn’t in the same ballpark as a higher end tub. There is a lot of talk on here about value and your tub should last X years for X price. IMO value is in the eye of the beholder. I think I went into this with my eyes open and had a certain expectation as to how long it would work and how well it would work. I don’t need my tub to last 10 or 20 years for my tub to be a good value IMO. I PERSONALLY would be happy as can be if I get a few more years out of it. When I got my tub I was only planning on staying in my house like a year or two and didn’t really want to spend too much knowing I was gonna move soon after. The housing market went to hell so I am staying for a few more years but not really worried about my tub as it seems to be working the way it did when it was new.

I had a minor problem with my tub a few months after I got it and called the Keys number and 3 or 4 days later a repair guy came out to replace a part with no cost to me so I don’t know about all the gloom and doom about poor warranties. I think your warranty is as good or bad as your local repair guy. (When I lived in Tahoe years ago the house we rented had a hotsprings and the guy that serviced our tub clearly wasn’t the brightest bulb on the tree and we also had a long downtime like 3 or 4 weeks once for a problem with the tub.) I personally wouldn’t read too much into individual complaints about someone who had a problem with any brand.

I think the biggest negative of the Keys (and most of the other big box store tubs) is the lack of insulation and the higher electric costs that come with it. I have friends with Hydro and Gulf Coast tubs and they have almost exactly the same amount of insulation with very similar monthly electrical costs. The Keys tubs also comes with a crappy cover that doesn’t do a great job. I ordered a cover from Dr Spa 2 weeks ago so I am curious how that helps with the bills this winter. I’ve planned on adding insulation for a while now but haven’t had time to do it.

If anyone has any specific question about the Keys I would be happy to answer.

[biggz]

I’ve had my Keys tub for over two years now and I don’t think it’s as bad as some people make them out to be but on the other side of the coin it isn’t in the same ballpark as a higher end tub. There is a lot of talk on here about value and your tub should last X years for X price. IMO value is in the eye of the beholder. I think I went into this with my eyes open and had a certain expectation as to how long it would work and how well it would work. I don’t need my tub to last 10 or 20 years for my tub to be a good value IMO. I PERSONALLY would be happy as can be if I get a few more years out of it. When I got my tub I was only planning on staying in my house like a year or two and didn’t really want to spend too much knowing I was gonna move soon after. The housing market went to hell so I am staying for a few more years but not really worried about my tub as it seems to be working the way it did when it was new.

I had a minor problem with my tub a few months after I got it and called the Keys number and 3 or 4 days later a repair guy came out to replace a part with no cost to me so I don’t know about all the gloom and doom about poor warranties. I think your warranty is as good or bad as your local repair guy. (When I lived in Tahoe years ago the house we rented had a hotsprings and the guy that serviced our tub clearly wasn’t the brightest bulb on the tree and we also had a long downtime like 3 or 4 weeks once for a problem with the tub.) I personally wouldn’t read too much into individual complaints about someone who had a problem with any brand.

I think the biggest negative of the Keys (and most of the other big box store tubs) is the lack of insulation and the higher electric costs that come with it. I have friends with Hydro and Gulf Coast tubs and they have almost exactly the same amount of insulation with very similar monthly electrical costs. The Keys tubs also comes with a crappy cover that doesn’t do a great job. I ordered a cover from Dr Spa 2 weeks ago so I am curious how that helps with the bills this winter. I’ve planned on adding insulation for a while now but haven’t had time to do it.

If anyone has any specific question about the Keys I would be happy to answer.

flibotte, If you decide to put additional insulation in your tub what type would you use and how would you do it?

[flibotte]

there were a few posts about a product called something like rodux or something alone those lines that I was gonna try (don't rememebr). I think the post is like a year old, you'll probably be able to find it. I think he had a hydro peII. the post was fairly detailed as I recall and he was pleased with the savings after it was added.

[biggz]

there were a few posts about a product called something like rodux or something alone those lines that I was gonna try (don't rememebr). I think the post is like a year old, you'll probably be able to find it. I think he had a hydro peII. the post was fairly detailed as I recall and he was pleased with the savings after it was added.

flibotte, I was poking around and found this link www.fomofoam.com

They have a video that you can link to showing how to spray a hot tub with their product. I actually found the link on the site posted by one of the dealers, but I forgot which one. So I googled form insulation kits. Maybe this will help some of us tub owners in cooler climates.

[aquarius]

You should look at a marquis' lower end spa or a free flow spa.