Good Price On Hotsprings And Caldera?

[solo]

I have narrowed my selection down to 2 spas:

1. Caldera Geneva (I didn't get a price yet. But he offered me $7500 on the c45, a stripped down, "generic" generva. I thought this price was too high).

or

2. Hotsprings Envoy (my dealer wants $8500 plus tax, I thought this price was to high)

Could someone please inform me of good prices on each tub? I live in VA. I saw that 3 people recently purchased a Geneva for $7800, $7900 and $8000.

I haven't seen any pricing posted in the forum on a Hotsprings Envoy.

Any input you could give would be greatly apprciated!

[solo]

MORE INFO:

I have an offer of $8000 to the Hotsprings Dealer for the Envoy.

I'm going to offer the Caldera Dealer $8000 for the Geneva.

The odd part is that both stores are owned by the same man. One location sells Hotspring and the other location sells Caldera. Under those circumstances, do you think they will truly compete for my business?

Also, if anyone has recently bought a Hotsprings Envoy or knows what I should pay, please let me know. I felt like $8500 was a decent price but not really a deal.

[lhrw5]

I have narrowed my selection down to 2 spas:

1. Caldera Geneva (I didn't get a price yet. But he offered me $7500 on the c45, a stripped down, "generic" generva. I thought this price was too high).

or

2. Hotsprings Envoy (my dealer wants $8500 plus tax, I thought this price was to high)

Could someone please inform me of good prices on each tub? I live in VA. I saw that 3 people recently purchased a Geneva for $7800, $7900 and $8000.

I haven't seen any pricing posted in the forum on a Hotsprings Envoy.

Any input you could give would be greatly apprciated!

I also had narrowed my choices down to the Geneva and the Envoy. If you haven't already done it, be sure to WET TEST both models. After my wife and I wet tested both, it made it a VERY easy decision for us. (Geneva) However, you may like the Envoy better. That part is up to you.

As for prices, I have a quote for the Geneva of $9000 & $7800 from 2 different dealers within my "local" area. As you can see pricing varies greatly.

I believe the Envoy was around $9000 also, but from the same dealer that gave me the $9000 quote for the Geneva. I think the C-45 quote was around $7400.

Prices included the usual of cover, steps, cover lifter, startup chemical kit and delivery/installation. Prices are w/o tax.

Let me know how the offers went and which one you decide to buy.

[solo]

I have wet tested both the Geneva and Envoy. Would NEVER buy a tub without wet testing. HI would buy either spa. Both are awesome. I will probably go with the dealer that takes my offer first.

Here is my take:

1. Caldera Geneva: Stronger Jets, better lower back massage.

2. Envoy: Moto massage is great. Love the attention to detail like the screw in jets and the Tri_X filters and the drains that keep you from having to empty buckets of water out when you change the water. Excellent fit and finish.

Either tub is a winner to me.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I have wet tested both the Geneva and Envoy. Would NEVER buy a tub without wet testing. HI would buy either spa. Both are awesome. I will probably go with the dealer that takes my offer first.

Here is my take:

1. Caldera Geneva: Stronger Jets, better lower back massage.

2. Envoy: Moto massage is great. Love the attention to detail like the screw in jets and the Tri_X filters and the drains that keep you from having to empty buckets of water out when you change the water. Excellent fit and finish.

Either tub is a winner to me.

You may get what you want but be prepared for a compromise offer from one (or both). A way to meet in the middle if they don't completely meet your offer is to ask for part of the difference in store credit (for accessories and chems which you'll obviously need anyway). Store credit is easier for them to swallow for obvious reasons than you taking money off the table if they feel they've already made their best offer and there is a gap.

[solo]

Thanks for the heads up on the store credit. I will now be ready and waiting for that. I think my dealer knows that I am firm on my price. But if he comes back with a sotre crddit, I will simply let him know that I want the proce off the front end.

I have 2 cash offers on the table. I will probably find a 3rd that I really like and offer that one too. But I won't offer just to make one, it's gotta be a spa I will be happy with. Going to look at D1 next.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Thanks for the heads up on the store credit. I will now be ready and waiting for that. I think my dealer knows that I am firm on my price. But if he comes back with a sotre crddit, I will simply let him know that I want the proce off the front end.

LOL, that's not what I meant. I meant it can be a way to bridge the gap. If you're someone who makes an offer and is firm on it keep in mind the dealer can do the same thing and be firm with his final offer. Your offer is based on how much you have to spend. His is based on how much he needs to sell that for to make his business work.

An alternative is for both of you to bridge the gap and store credit can help. If you or they are unwilling to bridge the gap then maybe you look elsewhere. You don't know what they need to sell at to make their store work so to say that is your final offer and then not be willing to possibly compromise later doesn't seem completely reasonable but it is your option to take.

[solo]

I agree that the store credit is a way to meet in the middle. But I am not really looking for a way to compromise. That's just not my style. Nothing wrong with it, just not the way I do business. These guys sell enough spas at full price that taking a few extra hundred off my sale isn't gonna break the bank. I didn't even have to work at all to get them to give me the "sale price". Most people hear "sale", look at how much less it is than MSRP, and then buy. I'm just different.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I agree that the store credit is a way to meet in the middle. But I am not really looking for a way to compromise. That's just not my style. Nothing wrong with it, just not the way I do business. These guys sell enough spas at full price that taking a few extra hundred off my sale isn't gonna break the bank. I didn't even have to work at all to get them to give me the "sale price". Most people hear "sale", look at how much less it is than MSRP, and then buy. I'm just different.

Well what if they do take "a few extra hundred off' as you say but only get down to $8250 and even that is lower than they normally would go? Why should you expect that your number of $8000 represents a passable number for them? I'm sure that one will get close or even meet your price but I find it odd that you have a make or break number on a specific spa when you don't truly know whether that really represents a reasonable final offer to them. I'm sure it's at least close but it seems awfully close-minded to say you won't budge if they are close and want to compromise.

I've seen this before where someone thinks their number should be met and it comes close but they think the dealer should just cave in on the last couple hundred because "they make it up on other people". With that same logic, why shouldn't you just say "close enough"? The reality is at that point most deals are made with a compromise to bridge the final gap if it's close and both sides feel they are being reasonable and the 'store credit' is one way. A few of the few dealers I've worked with will let a customer walk if they feel the customer isn't being reasonable when the deal gets close but, that is your option.

[Pathfinder]

These guys sell enough spas at full price that taking a few extra hundred off my sale isn't gonna break the bank.

How do you know what they have been selling there spas for all year. 90% of their sales could be guys like you grinding them so they make nothing on the deal. Even if the they do sell some spas at full price what makes you "the guy" for them to drop their pants and give away the spa? Are you bringing in more people that want spas? Do you have contacts that can help them improve their business or sales? Why is it they should give you the deal of the century with you offerring nothing in return other than owning a tub. If you cant afford the tub you cant afford it. Have you looked at in house financing for a hot tub or a line of credit??

[spatech (the unreal one)]

These guys sell enough spas at full price that taking a few extra hundred off my sale isn't gonna break the bank.

How do you know what they have been selling there spas for all year. 90% of their sales could be guys like you grinding them so they make nothing on the deal. Even if the they do sell some spas at full price what makes you "the guy" for them to drop their pants and give away the spa? Are you bringing in more people that want spas? Do you have contacts that can help them improve their business or sales? Why is it they should give you the deal of the century with you offerring nothing in return other than owning a tub. If you cant afford the tub you cant afford it. Have you looked at in house financing for a hot tub or a line of credit??

There are basically 3 types of customers.

1) Those that pay the sale first price given.

2) Thos who ask for a better deal.

3) Those who continue to beat the dealer down to get to the ultimate deal.

He's the 3rd group and he should expect to get the price the 3rd group gets but he shouldn't necessarily think he can decide what that price is. He can try but to say "this is my only/final offer, $8000" may be met with "we've given you our final offer as well so thanks but no thanks”.

[solo]

I don't assume to know anything about the dealers cost or cost of doing business. I simply know what that I won't buy anything unless I am convinced that I have a good deal. On top of that, I have a budget unlike many spa shoppers.

I'm not telling my dealers that it makes sense for them to sell me the spa at $8000. They have to determine what is good for their business, not me. What I am telling my dealers is that I can't pay more than $8000 plus tax. If they determine that it is a good business move to sell it to me for that, then we have a deal.

I truly believe my deal is out there and I must simply find it. After I speak with all dealers in town, if I don't have my deal, then I need to re-evaluate.

[TravelingSpaGuy]

8500 is about 700 less then I was allowed to sell the envoy for last month for a dealer out east, so I would be pretty happy with the envoy at 8500...just because the sales person gave you a good deal off the bat doesnt mean your not getting a good deal...and this is the reason why people always cry about sales people not giving the true price off the bat for statements like this

I don't assume to know anything about the dealers cost or cost of doing business. I simply know what that I won't buy anything unless I am convinced that I have a good deal. On top of that, I have a budget unlike many spa shoppers.

If I say hey the sale price and lowest price I can go is XXXX.XX, and it is the best deal im willing to give I may lose the deal to a shopper like this because he doesnt get the satisfaction of grinding out any more money. Now if I lie to him and make sure to leave his haggling room in I am being dishonest. BUT I get the deal because he feels proud of himself for being a good haggler. I wish customers wore signs on there shirt so you didnt have to screw around the good shoppers and knew you had to leave money in for the shoppers like this.

[TinyBubbles]

If I say hey the sale price and lowest price I can go is XXXX.XX, and it is the best deal im willing to give I may lose the deal to a shopper like this because he doesnt get the satisfaction of grinding out any more money. Now if I lie to him and make sure to leave his haggling room in I am being dishonest. BUT I get the deal because he feels proud of himself for being a good haggler. I wish customers wore signs on there shirt so you didnt have to screw around the good shoppers and knew you had to leave money in for the shoppers like this.

The shirt thing is a great idea. There is no point in you actually working for your money by listening to the customer to see what they are like. Maybe salesmen could wear shirts saying "I'm a dishonest jerk". Then we'd know to walk right out of your store before wasting our time.

[solo]

Traveling Spa guy...If you give a customer your absolut lowest price after the first time he asks for a discount, you could be losing a lot of money for yourself (if you are commissioned) and your employer. I expect a sales guy to be a good negotiator and not just to drop to his lowerst price right away. I have been conditioned to be this way from years and years of buying other large dollar items. When I bought my car, the sales person didn't give me his best price the first time I asked for a discount. Same with my house. And so far, every spa dealer that I have negotiated with has not given me his best price after my first price haggle.

Now calling other shoppers "good shoppers" then putting me in a different category, that's somewhat backwards. Your defintion of a good shopper is probably an easy sale. My definition of a good shopper is a person that knows how to get the best deal.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Traveling Spa guy...If you give a customer your absolut lowest price after the first time he asks for a discount, you could be losing a lot of money for yourself (if you are commissioned) and your employer. I expect a sales guy to be a good negotiator and not just to drop to his lowerst price right away. I have been conditioned to be this way from years and years of buying other large dollar items. When I bought my car, the sales person didn't give me his best price the first time I asked for a discount. Same with my house. And so far, every spa dealer that I have negotiated with has not given me his best price after my first price haggle.

Now calling other shoppers "good shoppers" then putting me in a different category, that's somewhat backwards. Your defintion of a good shopper is probably an easy sale. My definition of a good shopper is a person that knows how to get the best deal.

You're not doing anything different that what 15% of shoppers do which is to get a quote, ask for a better price and then ask yet again. Your expectations may be higher than reality when you start thinking that they should be able to meet your price when you don’t even know how reasonable your price is but there's nothing wrong with pushing the envelope.

[TravelingSpaGuy]

I am saying giving every customer the best price would be the best way to do things, but unless you buy for cheaper then everyone else your not buying. Meaning I have to give you a fake price, so when you start asking for discounts or whatnot I have room to get where it needs to be for you to buy...where if I gave my best price right off bat with no need for discount that wouldnt be good enough for you.

Tinybubbles are you kidding me? I am on the consumers side of this, sometimes I make more money by charging a customer above par (my lowest price) and most the time I am paid the same rate no matter what I sell it for, so I rather sell it for less. Its so funny people always want the salesperson to make less commission on deals, when if I came to your work and wanted you to do the same job for me as everyone else but wanted to pay you less for the service it would be frowned upon. I am just saying that if people wanted the best price they could get they wouldnt think it important to pay less then other people. Every dealer has the bottom they will sell a product for, if they gave that right away to Solo he wouldnt buy the product because he would need to feel like he got a better deal then everyone else, so they pad that number to make solo feel good about his purchase, then salespeople are called liars for giving that padded number because we want shoppers like solo to feel good about his purchase. I wish people would start blamming the shady games salespeople must play more on shoppers like solo, because with the games we can sell to solo, and without the games we cant.

I am very good at listening to my customers and finding out which spa works best for them, but dont you think I feel bad when I charge a nice customer 200.00 more then a customer who breaks my balls...but unfortunatly I needed to hang onto the 200 with the nice customer because if they turned into the customer like solo I can still make the sale.

[TinyBubbles]

Actually traveling, it's you that seems to think you are kidding people. Let's not forget who made the comment about customers coming in wearing shirts. I don't care how much you make off a spa. I've always felt that if I'm comfortable paying a certain price for something, I don't care if the salesman walks away with a hefty profit. My response is directed towards your arrogance. Solo has every right to try to get the best deal for his hard earned money. If you don't like dealing with "customers like solo" get out of sales.

[D.P. Roberts]

Every dealer has the bottom they will sell a product for, if they gave that right away to Solo he wouldnt buy the product because he would need to feel like he got a better deal then everyone else, so they pad that number to make solo feel good about his purchase, then salespeople are called liars for giving that padded number because we want shoppers like solo to feel good about his purchase. I wish people would start blamming the shady games salespeople must play more on shoppers like solo, because with the games we can sell to solo, and without the games we cant.

I am so with you on this one! People blame "shady" dealers for being secretive about their prices, yet those same people want a discount off of whatever price is posted, because they want to get a "deal". Let's face it, if customers wanted flat, no haggle pricing, then dealers everywhere would be jumping on that bandwagon.

[Rob W]

Consumers have no problem with flat, no haggle pricing if they feel it is,indeed, genuine. Saturn tried this and it worked pretty well. Some other car dealerships use it occassionally. With the advantage of the internet today, any smart shopper will have a good idea ahead of time what's a good price and what's not. Most people hate haggling and the salesmen (in general) know this. So if the sales establishment has a no haggle, lowest price policy they should make it known up front. Otherwise I, as a consumer, am going to expect room to negotiate when it comes to higher priced items like houses, cars, jewelry and spas. Salesmen on commission and business owners of course want to get the best price they can. But so does the consumer. If the price the consumer is looking for is unreasonable the salesman will let you walk. Then the consumer can re-evaluate his position. I don't quite see what's wrong with that.

[D.P. Roberts]

So if the sales establishment has a no haggle, lowest price policy they should make it known up front. Otherwise I, as a consumer, am going to expect room to negotiate when it comes to higher priced items like houses, cars, jewelry and spas.

I think that's the problem - the expectation that there's room to haggle, unless it's clearly stated otherwise. Customers expect to haggle, so dealers leave room in their pricing. Customers know that dealers have room to negotiate, so they haggle. It's an endless cycle.

You mentioned Saturn, and I know other companies are going to this as well (Scion is another one). Even for brands that don't technically have a no-haggle price structure (like Honda or Toyota), they pretty much sell for their asking price, and you can check this on all kinds of web sites.

I think the internet is spreading knowledge on pricing in a lot of different categories. It will catch up to the hot tub industry sooner or later.

[TravelingSpaGuy]

TinyBubbles read this from solo

I agree that the store credit is a way to meet in the middle. But I am not really looking for a way to compromise. That's just not my style. Nothing wrong with it, just not the way I do business. These guys sell enough spas at full price that taking a few extra hundred off my sale isn't gonna break the bank. I didn't even have to work at all to get them to give me the "sale price". Most people hear "sale", look at how much less it is than MSRP, and then buy. I'm just different

He was just told 8500 was a good deal on that spa, yet he believes he deserves to pay less then all the other customers...and you call me arogant. Funny thing is I probably sell him because I pitch the Envoy at 9999.00, my first drop would have gotten him down to 8999ish and would have held firm. My average sale is 300ish over my bottom...I am not proud of that and actually posted saying I dont like selling spas more then I have to sell them for but customers like solo make me. I wish the salesperson was stronger who solo talked to because 8500 is a great price on an envoy and I feel bad that I am sure the dealer gave there very best deal to solo and it wasnt good enough.

I mentioned I would love if a customer would say "Hi I would love your best price and will believe you when you say its your best price and if I like I will buy" or "Hi I am going to grind you down to make me think I am getting the best price" right off bat, that way the person who has the first tag gets the best price and the guy who doesnt has to work hard to get to that first persons price...SOMETIMES can get lower but most the time 129.37ish higher lol just cause you always have to give an odd figure for that type of customer so you can say you saved em every penny

[Tyler]

Traveler, how do you deal with customers like Solo? Do you ever tell a customer to hit the road and to never come back? I bet that is more satisfying sometimes than making a few hundred dollars commision.

[D.P. Roberts]

Traveler, how do you deal with customers like Solo? Do you ever tell a customer to hit the road and to never come back? I bet that is more satisfying sometimes than making a few hundred dollars commision.

I don't believe that Solo falls into this category, but there's an interesting article over at sparetailer.com about customers who are in the "PLO". They say that 4% of your customers are "Pushy, Loud, and Obnoxious", and will make your life miserable. I'd say such customers are not worth your time.

[Pathfinder]

I find the PLO type for me is the easiest to deal with.I have relatives that are like that & I will talk to them straight out and meet them at their level haggle once throw in a bottle of Crown Royal and we're good. The actual grinders for me are the quiet type that come in for a tire kick grab a brochure and leave. The then come back 2 days later acting as the foremost expert on hot tubs reciting exerpts from competing brochures then telling me he can get a similar tub for considerably less down the road.

I will tell a customer like that if they can buy the tub they think is similar for way less then buy it. I know pretty much the margins the other dealers are running with so either he's lying and I dont want a customer like that bc they will be after you for discounts on every little thing or the other dealer really needed to move a tub. I find people that pay the least for a tub expect the most.