solo

I drive a Honda Accord. Value is important to me. Value that will last. I felt that Jacuzzi gave me the best bang for my buckj. In this economy, I bet there are some deals to be had.

You have a tough decision to make. Only you can make it. I can tell you why I didn't choose a Bullfrog. I thought about having to replace those jetpacks. Not wanting to replace them but having to. They seemed like the weak link in the hot tub to me, especially if you moved them frequently. Something about having a hot tub where the jets were molded in place just seemed more secure to me and less prone to break. I am not saying that my opinion is correct. That's just the logic I used at the time. The Bullfrog was a comfortable spa. The Oscillator jet pack was the abosolut best massage I found for my lower back in any spa, and I tested a lot of them. I simply wasn't convinced that it would last.

My Jacuzzi Spa is 2 years old. Have loved owning it every minute. However, recently, it started running hot. When I set it to 104 degrees it will get as hot as 107. At 100 degrees it hangs around 102. The thermostat is functioning normally as I am double checking the reading with a spa thermometer. Any ideas what this could be? Could the pump be running hot?

Well, the hunt has not been enjoyable until this past week. I was at first rushing to find the right spa. And I prematurely narrowed my search ot Hotsprings/Sundance. Now that I have slowed down, looked at many brands, and have decided to let my deal come to me, the search has been much more enjoyable.

It's definitely not indecisiveness. I am ready to buy, just not in a rush. In one month of looking/researching I made offers on 2 tubs. I wouldn't call that indecisive. My dealers know that I am ready to buy when they are ready to meet my price demands. They know I'm serious. So I think you have mistaken my patience in waiting for the right deal as indecisiveness.

I wet tested the big lounger model whatever that is. I think the price was around $13k retail and he wants $10,5000 or something like that. I would need to look at the 562 to get in my price range, but that spa may be a little small (350 gallons I believe). I'm looking at mostly 400+ gallon tubs. That size just seems to fit me better. But my concerns: 1. The water in the spa at the store had gunk in it, not the cleanest water. The dealer referred me to 2 of his customers to check out their body wand jet packs which he didn't have in stock: one had yellow water and the other has scum line issues. This makes me concerned about the filtration/water cleaning system. 2. Most of the higher end dealers put a circ pump standard. Bullfrog doesn't. Not sure this is a real issue though as pump one on low speed probably circulates more efficiently and gives you a larger flow volume anyway. But it has me wondering why they make it an extra when the other hjigh end dealers include it standard. Gives a low end image. 3. My Bulfrog Dealer reccomends Baqua-spa. He is the only person I have talked to that does. Those are the concerns i have. Overall, the spa just didn't seem to have the refinement of a D1 or Hotsprings. EDIT: The other thing is that my Bullfrog dealer seems to keep going back to jetpacks. I don't really care about jetpacks. Once I get them in the seats I want them in, I'm not moving them. So when I want to hear about how many gallons are filtered a day, the quality of the filter and ozonator, how maintnence free the spa is, how long it will last, I keep hearing about jetpack technology. I actually have enjoyed talking to my bullfrog rep, he just hasn't hit my hot buttons with his presentation. I see a neat concept in the bullfrog spa but am not convinced that they have the attention to detail and the fit and finish of the top of the line tubs. I need to be sold on that. Jetpacks just seem to be showroom sizzle. I want the details. So it copuld be that my bullfrog dealer just hasn't emphasized the right things to me in our discussions.

At various points in time, I have felt slightly decieved or misled (and in at least one instance just bold faced lied to). I have also felt pushed to lower model spas. But I understand that these guys are just trying to make a living in a competitive market and trying to meet my budget in a way that's good for them too. Now that I've shopped around and heard most everyone's schpiel, coupled with the fact that I am simply taking my time and trying to enjoy the experience, I can see that. I really don't think any of the spa dealers that I spoke with are bad people and would probably feel comfortable working with any of them. At this point, I feel like I have lots of options, that's good. Now it's just a waiting game.

In other posts on this forum, you show your support for this spa. Do you think they are a value? In my opinion, they seem to be priced like the high end spas without the high end features. I actually liked the Bullfrog in a wet test. But it just doesn't seem to be a value. Do you feel that Bullfrog is on par with others like Hotsprings, Caldera, D1?

It's not about me winning or the dealer losing. It's a win-win. If a dealer sells me a spa, he wins. He wins over all the other dealers that could seel me a spa. He also wins by adding to his bottom line. When I get my price, I feel good about the purchase. Not because I won, but because I was able to buy something for what I feel it is worth and don't feel ripped off. My dad bought a Mercedes after he retired. He hated that car depsite it being the nicest car he ever drove. Why? Because he payed too much. It cost him more for that car than he felt a car is worth. He died never having enjoyed that vehicle. I am wired the same way. I have in my head what something is worth. It doesn't matter if that figure is accurate. For example, a vehicle is simply not worth more than $30,000 to me. It gets me from point A to point B. So I buy cars that are $30,000 or less. A spa is not worth more than $8,000 to me. So I will spend $8,000 or less. If I spend more, I won't enjoy the spa because I will have felt ripped off. I will feel like I paid more than what the product is worht to me. Does that make sense?

Here's my question for you: where do the people in group 3 - the hagglers - go when they want groceries? Grocery stores don't haggle. Instead, most people know which stores cost less by shopping there, and they go to the place with the lowest prices. It works on bigger prices too. Most electronics stores are no haggle. You can spend more on a big screen TV than some hot tubs. Why don't people haggle for those at Circuit City, Best Buy, or other stores? Because you KNOW whether you got a good price or not - you can shop around, check the internet, etc. I'm sticking to my point - the only reason customers haggle is because they lack adequate knowledge about what a good price actually is. If you don't know whether you're getting a good deal or not, you're forced to poke the dealer with a stick until you can't get any more out of him, and then hope you got a good deal on a good product. Oh, I agree with that totally. In general, if you don't know what something is worth, you are always gonna get taken when you buy it. So to avoid that, you must beat the dealer down on his price repeatedly. My gut tells me that spas are marked up 70%. I have no way of knowing if that is true, but that's what my gut tells me.

Thanks for the reply. I do wish to clarify something. I'm not trying to "screw the dealer" or the sales guy or anyone else. I just don't want to pay more for my spa than I have to and truly believe that nobody is going to make me a deal on a spa that is bad for their business. I am doing what is best for my pocket book. The sales guy and or the dealer must know what is good for his. If those two goals intersect, we have a deal.

I am so with you on this one! People blame "shady" dealers for being secretive about their prices, yet those same people want a discount off of whatever price is posted, because they want to get a "deal". Let's face it, if customers wanted flat, no haggle pricing, then dealers everywhere would be jumping on that bandwagon. I am going to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Dealers aren't in business to give consumers what they want necessarily, they are in business to make as much money as they can. The reason that most dealers don't go to "no haggle" pricing in my opinion, is because they can make more money the way it is now. If they set pricing to make $2000 on every tub, then they lose out on the guy they could make $4000 on. They also scare away the guy they make $500 on. They can afford to give rock bottom pricing to one out of every 8-10 customers just to move a spa, because they can make so much on the guy that pays full price. Remember, there are 3 types of customers: 1. People that pay full price 2. People that ask for a discount and accept whatever the first discount is 3. People that want the absolut killer deal No haggle pricing sends group 3 elsewhere and reduces the amount that is made from group 1. In my opinion, if dealers could make more money going no haggle, everyone would do it.

My brother in law spotted a deal on a Saratoga Spa. I haven't heard much about this spa line in my research. The Saratoga Empire is impressive on paper. Anyone know much about this brand? Many of the people I have spoken too only reccomend Hotsprings, Calderra, Jacuzzi, Sundance, Marquis, and Dimension 1. So I am leary of off brands. But presently, I am looking into everything.

Traveling Spa guy...If you give a customer your absolut lowest price after the first time he asks for a discount, you could be losing a lot of money for yourself (if you are commissioned) and your employer. I expect a sales guy to be a good negotiator and not just to drop to his lowerst price right away. I have been conditioned to be this way from years and years of buying other large dollar items. When I bought my car, the sales person didn't give me his best price the first time I asked for a discount. Same with my house. And so far, every spa dealer that I have negotiated with has not given me his best price after my first price haggle. Now calling other shoppers "good shoppers" then putting me in a different category, that's somewhat backwards. Your defintion of a good shopper is probably an easy sale. My definition of a good shopper is a person that knows how to get the best deal.

I don't assume to know anything about the dealers cost or cost of doing business. I simply know what that I won't buy anything unless I am convinced that I have a good deal. On top of that, I have a budget unlike many spa shoppers. I'm not telling my dealers that it makes sense for them to sell me the spa at $8000. They have to determine what is good for their business, not me. What I am telling my dealers is that I can't pay more than $8000 plus tax. If they determine that it is a good business move to sell it to me for that, then we have a deal. I truly believe my deal is out there and I must simply find it. After I speak with all dealers in town, if I don't have my deal, then I need to re-evaluate.

I have been quoted $600 to have someone pour a cement slab. I have $500 budgeted for the electrician. I know one, and will probably do it for half that). So the $8000 is what I can spend on the tub itself. I can go over on the tax, so don't worry about that. So I really wantr to know the max tub you can get for $8000 plus tax.

Assuming I had a budget of $8000, and that included sales tax, I would look for spas that have a "dealer's sale price" of $8000-$8500 from the following manufacturers (in alphabetical order): Arctic Artesian Caldera D1 Hot Spring Jacuzzi Marquis Sundance I'm sure some people would include other brands on this list, and exclude some of my picks, but this is my list. Thank you!

I agree that the store credit is a way to meet in the middle. But I am not really looking for a way to compromise. That's just not my style. Nothing wrong with it, just not the way I do business. These guys sell enough spas at full price that taking a few extra hundred off my sale isn't gonna break the bank. I didn't even have to work at all to get them to give me the "sale price". Most people hear "sale", look at how much less it is than MSRP, and then buy. I'm just different.

Thanks for the heads up on the store credit. I will now be ready and waiting for that. I think my dealer knows that I am firm on my price. But if he comes back with a sotre crddit, I will simply let him know that I want the proce off the front end. I have 2 cash offers on the table. I will probably find a 3rd that I really like and offer that one too. But I won't offer just to make one, it's gotta be a spa I will be happy with. Going to look at D1 next.

I'm on an $8000 budget. What spa would you buy if you had $8000 to spend?

I have wet tested both the Geneva and Envoy. Would NEVER buy a tub without wet testing. HI would buy either spa. Both are awesome. I will probably go with the dealer that takes my offer first. Here is my take: 1. Caldera Geneva: Stronger Jets, better lower back massage. 2. Envoy: Moto massage is great. Love the attention to detail like the screw in jets and the Tri_X filters and the drains that keep you from having to empty buckets of water out when you change the water. Excellent fit and finish. Either tub is a winner to me.

MORE INFO: I have an offer of $8000 to the Hotsprings Dealer for the Envoy. I'm going to offer the Caldera Dealer $8000 for the Geneva. The odd part is that both stores are owned by the same man. One location sells Hotspring and the other location sells Caldera. Under those circumstances, do you think they will truly compete for my business? Also, if anyone has recently bought a Hotsprings Envoy or knows what I should pay, please let me know. I felt like $8500 was a decent price but not really a deal.

I have narrowed my selection down to 2 spas: 1. Caldera Geneva (I didn't get a price yet. But he offered me $7500 on the c45, a stripped down, "generic" generva. I thought this price was too high). or 2. Hotsprings Envoy (my dealer wants $8500 plus tax, I thought this price was to high) Could someone please inform me of good prices on each tub? I live in VA. I saw that 3 people recently purchased a Geneva for $7800, $7900 and $8000. I haven't seen any pricing posted in the forum on a Hotsprings Envoy. Any input you could give would be greatly apprciated!