Help Which One

[turbottt1]

Hello I need some advice on which spa to purchase. We are looking at lsx series master spa and the d1 chairman ll or califorian lfx models. First we live in northeast ohio where the winter can be extremly cold. Second we live out in the country and mice looking for a warm home for the winter is a problem. Yes the spa will be outdoors. The master uses the window pane type insulation and the d1 uses a full foad freezer quality insulation???? The master has a hard pvc type bottom for protection and the d1 has a thin layer of plastic?????? Is the quality of the dealer as important as the quality of the spa??? It seems I can get all of the features we want in one spa from masters, but the dealer I question. In the d1 spas I can't find everything we want, but the dealer I would trust with my kids??????? I want to thank all who provide info. on these spas or a direction for which I might want to travel. Money wise it almost a dead heat. !0,000.00-10,600.00 Thank you. steve

[Sandy T]

Dear Steve First of all I work for a company called Arctic Spas. Please check out our website at www.goarctic.com and you will see some features of our hot tub including heatlock, freeze protection, forever floor, polar cover etc etc These tubs were built for the cold weather and adapt in the exact environment you have. Our warranties are very extensive and importantly we have a terrific dealer called Hudson Pools and Spas in Cleveland area. We will be at the Cleveland home show this weekend from Feb 3 for 9 days and this will provide an opportunity to see all manufacturers and models under one roof. You are right in saying that a good dealer is important and they are. Good Luck in your searching and if you need any more help please don't hesitate to contact me either here or at sandy@goarctic.com

[turbottt1]

Thank you for the reply. Yes we will be going up to the show. I hope many different dealers are there with their products. This will be the weekend that were going to purchase our spa. We went up to the show this week and meet the people from master spas. They tried very hard to sell me the lxs they had. Pretty good price. 9000.00 plus all the goodies including led lighting, tilt cover, steps, stainless jet covers. The problem was not the price or the product but the dealer who I would have to trust with all needs we might have. There has to be other quality spas and dealers out there with the options we want in this price range. This is a sizeable purchase and I just want as much good information on what to look for and demand for our dollars. thank you. steve

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Hello I need some advice on which spa to purchase. We are looking at lsx series master spa and the d1 chairman ll or califorian lfx models. First we live in northeast ohio where the winter can be extremly cold. Second we live out in the country and mice looking for a warm home for the winter is a problem. Yes the spa will be outdoors. The master uses the window pane type insulation and the d1 uses a full foad freezer quality insulation???? The master has a hard pvc type bottom for protection and the d1 has a thin layer of plastic?????? Is the quality of the dealer as important as the quality of the spa??? It seems I can get all of the features we want in one spa from masters, but the dealer I question. In the d1 spas I can't find everything we want, but the dealer I would trust with my kids??????? I want to thank all who provide info. on these spas or a direction for which I might want to travel. Money wise it almost a dead heat. !0,000.00-10,600.00 Thank you. steve

I'd suggest you go to the websites of the major manufacturers and use their dealer locators to see where your nearest dealer is. I keep a list of the top manufacturer websites so I will list what I consider to be my 5 favorites (in no particular order) along with a couple other well thought of spa makers that people own/sell that come to this site. These links will acutally put you at the dealer locator sections of their websites that allow you to enter your zip code to see who is nearby:

http://www.hotspring.com/Dealers/index.html

http://retailer.sundancespas.com/

http://www.calderaspas.com/Locator/index.html

http://www.marquisspas.com/

http://www.dimensiononespas.com/findadealer.asphttp://artesianspas.com/main/dealer_locator.asp

http://www.goarctic.com

http://retailer.hottubretailers.com/form.php

There are more certainly but those above make probably 2/3 of the spas sold in the US. Good luck.

[Canadian Kahuna]

Just some of my personal input here, not a dealer. I own an Arctic spa and have had no problems and am very satisfied with it. They have a great option called a "forever floor" which is a type of fiberglass that is virtually impervious to the elements (including mice, there is a small hole for drainage but this has a metal screen to keep rodents out). My dealer for arctic spas here is great and very helpfull. I am not trying to push you towards arctic, as there are other great brands out there such as D1, Hot springs, etc, but just giving you my input. Check them all out, wet test them, price compare, check out options, seating, jets, all of that of all the available brands and find out what you like best, including the dealer. Hope this helps.

[Roger]

Look at as many brands as possible and during your search consider seating, and what's important to you. Listen to them run in the store and consider the noise level. At 9000 you should be able to get just about whatever you want in the high end of any of the manufacturers. Remember lots of great big pumps and HP does not neccesarily equate to a better feel in the tub, but it does equate to more power consumption.

[turbottt1]

Thank you. All input is welcome. We plan on soaking in as many spas as we can within the next two weeks. We have quite a few different dealers in our area to go and talk to. Is there a check list of items that we should be aware of and look for as we approach these dealers?? Are extended warr. important or at least a good idea??? IWhat is microban and how important is it ?? Ozonator some run with the pumps on and some shut off???? Filtering systems is there a base line as to their performance that we should check on or should we be more concerned with the time between replacing them and their cost?? Some have two pumps and some have four??? There seems to be quite a bit of imformation thrown at us and it's hard to process what's hype and what is truely important!!! Again thank you for all input. steve

[tony]

Thank you. All input is welcome. We plan on soaking in as many spas as we can within the next two weeks. We have quite a few different dealers in our area to go and talk to. Is there a check list of items that we should be aware of and look for as we approach these dealers?? Are extended warr. important or at least a good idea??? IWhat is microban and how important is it ?? Ozonator some run with the pumps on and some shut off???? Filtering systems is there a base line as to their performance that we should check on or should we be more concerned with the time between replacing them and their cost?? Some have two pumps and some have four??? There seems to be quite a bit of imformation thrown at us and it's hard to process what's hype and what is truely important!!! Again thank you for all input. steve

The dealer you chose is important and warranties are important. If you stick with the major manufacturers, extended warranties shouldn't be necessary unless offered by the manufacturer itself. In any event, I would read warranties carefully and compare to other spas you are interested in. You will most likely need a warranty repair during the time period. Microban is a brand name and does nothing in acrylic to combat bacteria (beware of salesmanship). Spas with 24 hour circ pumps will have the capability of ozone 24/7. My personal opinion is I like circ pumps that constanly filter, ozonate and heat. Wet testing will give you an idea of pump size, number and performance. More pumps and bigger pumps don't necessarily mean better therapy and some folks like lots of power, most like a little more comfort. As Roger said, everything comes with a tradeoff. Filtering is essentially the same in all spas. Some of the spas have their trademark ways of doing this (such as HotSprings with no bypass filtration or Sundance Microfilter), but all the majors do a good job of filtering water. Take your time and do your research. Looking and testing is a lot of fun.

[Brulan1]

Thank you. All input is welcome. We plan on soaking in as many spas as we can within the next two weeks. We have quite a few different dealers in our area to go and talk to. Is there a check list of items that we should be aware of and look for as we approach these dealers?? Are extended warr. important or at least a good idea??? IWhat is microban and how important is it ?? Ozonator some run with the pumps on and some shut off???? Filtering systems is there a base line as to their performance that we should check on or should we be more concerned with the time between replacing them and their cost?? Some have two pumps and some have four??? There seems to be quite a bit of imformation thrown at us and it's hard to process what's hype and what is truely important!!! Again thank you for all input. steve

Did you check out the Coleman spa? The ozonator shuts off when you enter the tub because if the light kills germs what can it do to humans??? Also, there pump runs 2 three hour cycles a day which makes the electric bill very small and also does 100 percent filtration. It is a very nice molded shell for optimum compfortability. Also 5 years down the road if there is a leak it is very easily accessable because it does not have any foam packed in there, it is thermal insulated and a gavalum steel frame and a abs pan. A comprabible tub is Artic. Artic and Coleman are very similar and very good tubs. Economical, durable, Coleman has more compfortable seating, and artic has more options of jets. Colemans jets are situated better I think. Coleman has two motors and a premium package has an extra air raider, no circulating pump which is a plus.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

no circulating pump which is a plus.

... or a not a plus depending on one's opinion.

[Brulan1]

... or a not a plus depending on one's opinion.

24hr circulating pump puts ozone 24/7 with a uv bulb wich is more expensive to operate than a plasma cell ozone that coleman offers, and also 24hrs of ozone could prove cancerous. Plasma doesn't lose its potency as quick as UV does. Do you think a 24hr pump running all the time that never shuts off would last more than 2 yrs.? Do you think that the circulating pump actually filters the water 100percent or just the water within the vicinity of the pump? Actually the whole body of water isn't being circulated unless people are in the tub pushing the part of the water not being filtered into the area of a circulating pump. Why would you want something running 24hrs. I just cannot understand that logic. Oh-well I guess people have to learn for themselves

[spatech (the unreal one)]

24hr circulating pump puts ozone 24/7 with a uv bulb wich is more expensive to operate than a plasma cell ozone that coleman offers, and also 24hrs of ozone could prove cancerous. Plasma doesn't lose its potency as quick as UV does. Do you think a 24hr pump running all the time that never shuts off would last more than 2 yrs.? Do you think that the circulating pump actually filters the water 100percent or just the water within the vicinity of the pump? Actually the whole body of water isn't being circulated unless people are in the tub pushing the part of the water not being filtered into the area of a circulating pump. Why would you want something running 24hrs. I just cannot understand that logic. Oh-well I guess people have to learn for themselves

Circ pumps won't last 2 yrs? Who are you getting these ideas from? The 24 hr circ pumps you see out there come with 5 yr waranties typiclly and they cost no more (and maybe less) to run 24/7 than the multiple hrs you would use a 2-speed pump to filter. The difference in cost to run is probably small but the circ pump should be a bit less. While we're on the subject, a circ pump running 24/7 does a good job of turing the water over so don't bother with the salesmanship idea that it's just reciurculating the same water as the owners out there will tell you they filter just fine (both methods filter fine in fact). The 24 hr circ pump allows you to run ozone 24/7 which is a good thing. That scare tactic you're trying to use by throwing the word cancer in there is hilarious BTW.

I don't know if you just got out of spa sales school or what your deal is but try selling on the merits of your spa rather than the fabricated untruths you're trying to throw around about spas that don't utilize your methods. Coleman is a decent product but you're getting a little out of hand with your claims.

[tony]

24hr circulating pump puts ozone 24/7 with a uv bulb wich is more expensive to operate than a plasma cell ozone that coleman offers, and also 24hrs of ozone could prove cancerous. Plasma doesn't lose its potency as quick as UV does. Do you think a 24hr pump running all the time that never shuts off would last more than 2 yrs.? Do you think that the circulating pump actually filters the water 100percent or just the water within the vicinity of the pump? Actually the whole body of water isn't being circulated unless people are in the tub pushing the part of the water not being filtered into the area of a circulating pump. Why would you want something running 24hrs. I just cannot understand that logic. Oh-well I guess people have to learn for themselves

24 hour circ pump puts ozone 24/7 with a CD ozone which last 5-7 years without having to change chips on the better models. Some high volume circ pumps do actually filter 100 percent of the water...others work in conjunction with a low speed filtration on the main pump or with no bypass filtration on all pumps. I like the idea of water moving all the time in my spa especially during the winter.

For what its worth, all the major spas ozone systems shut off when the main pumps are on.

Get your facts straight and understand that what you sell here is only your OPINION.

[Canadian Kahuna]

Poor guy is probably getting even more overwhelmed with everyone arguing. I think it's safe to say that the various filtrations systems work, for the most part, equally. As for ozone, it is good at helping water clear and there is some truths/untruths about cancer. Ozone has been known to cause free radical developement when exposed to at high levels. Free radicals have been linked to cancer. This does not mean that ozone from a hot tub can cause cancer. The ozone levels you would be breathing would most likely be too low to cause any damage, but most manufacturers would want it off while the tub is in use as a precautionary measure (you never know what future findings will show). In fact, there are many air purifiers for homes that are proven safe and use ozone as a method to kill off many virii, bacteria, molds, odour, etc and emit the same, if not more, ozone than a hot tub. It's a debatable topic, but not one worth the deciding factor in buying a tub.

[turbottt1]

WOW!!!!! I have to take some time to digest all of this. On the bright side I just got back from checking out the artic spas. They seem pretty nice the only thing I notice was with all the pumps running it was quite loud. Maybe because the spas was right next to a wall and the showroom was small. I would love to hear what you think of real wood cabinets??? It was made of cedar. The tub body appeared to be quite thick and very solid. Also I noticed that there was no foam around their tub, but the inside of the cabinet had aprox. 3 1/2 to 4" thick foam???????? I felt comfortable in the tub and had plenty of room for my long legs. [ 40" inseam] Were going to wet soak tuesday night to get a better feel for the total package. The spa we were drawn to was a frontier extreme. Any opinions positive or negative????? Thanks again. steve

[SmilinBare]

The spa we were drawn to was a frontier extreme. Any opinions positive or negative????? Thanks again. steve

Steve. I took delivery on an Arctic Frontier Ultra, here in Massachusetts, about one month ago. That was after about six months of researching and wet testing a a myriad of various manufacturers tubs. So far so good. BTW, I've got a 36 inch inseam, myself. We are finding that our tub is perfect for our needs: usually I soak solo, my partner joins me on weekends and every so often we're joined by another couple of people.

Elsewhere on this board under the (misspelled) topic heading "Artic Spa Impressions" is more user info on Arctic spas.

[Canadian Kahuna]

Own an Arctic spa Cub Designer myself. I haven't noticed the pumps to be louder than other brands I've been in or looked at. Mine does tend to be a little louder due to the wooden deck it sits on (the way it was built resonates the sound of the pumps a bit . . . probably because it's very low to the ground, more or less level with it, gonna fill under it with rock this summer to help with water drainage/erosion of soil and possibly the resonating factor). Overall, we are very happy with our Arctic and had no major problems. The Frontier was a close runner up, but didn't go with it due to space limitations.

[Roger]

Own an Arctic spa Cub Designer myself. I haven't noticed the pumps to be louder than other brands I've been in or looked at. Mine does tend to be a little louder due to the wooden deck it sits on (the way it was built resonates the sound of the pumps a bit . . . probably because it's very low to the ground, more or less level with it, gonna fill under it with rock this summer to help with water drainage/erosion of soil and possibly the resonating factor). Overall, we are very happy with our Arctic and had no major problems. The Frontier was a close runner up, but didn't go with it due to space limitations.

Got a costumer here had me put conveyor belt pieces under his tub for him to help with noise on a deck. Worked pretty well and cut the sound in about half. Kinda hard to find sometimes though.

To the other poster. I love wood cabinets and alot of people do, but they require yearly maintenaince to keep in good shape. I just use a rag and tung oil a couple times a year myself to keep mine in great shape, it takes about 20 minutes. Some don't like the extra work and a synthetic is perfect for them and a well done synthetic looks good also. Ten years from now a synthetic will look like what ever it does and you will have no choice. A wood cabinet, you will be able to make look new again.

I also think 24 hour circulation with a pump that uses as much electricity as a 75 watt light bulb and you can barely hear is a great idea. On an insulation skeem like the Arctic uses I think maybe a bigger pump should be used in order to create R-Factor all day. And if the pump cost a couple hundred bucks and is easy to repair, if it last 3-4 even 5 years or more the cost of running the big pump to filter and reheat you would think would be about the same over that lenght of time.

I do however think both methods of filtration work fine as many many years of both kinds has proven. Be carefull with sales pitches from whatever dealer your visiting or listening to on here.

[turbottt1]

[Hello to all. It's great to hear from actual owners of these tubs. Let me ask you this. On the d1 they have adjustable pillows with jets. On the master they have reverse mold with jets underneath. On the artic I don't see either. How well do they direct the water to your neck and your shoulders???? Are there any kodiak or klondiker owners out there that would like to give their opinion on these models. Also owners could you let me know aprox. electricity use per month? Thanks again for all the great info. steve

[Swimfan]

[Hello to all. It's great to hear from actual owners of these tubs. Let me ask you this. On the d1 they have adjustable pillows with jets. On the master they have reverse mold with jets underneath. On the artic I don't see either. How well do they direct the water to your neck and your shoulders???? Are there any kodiak or klondiker owners out there that would like to give their opinion on these models. Also owners could you let me know aprox. electricity use per month? Thanks again for all the great info. steve

The D1 adjustable pillows w/jets works OK, but frankly it feels just as good without these; I wouldn't spend the extra money again. We pay about $12/month to keep D1 temp at about 100 degrees (220 VAC, San Diego).

[Brulan1]

The D1 adjustable pillows w/jets works OK, but frankly it feels just as good without these; I wouldn't spend the extra money again. We pay about $12/month to keep D1 temp at about 100 degrees (220 VAC, San Diego).

I wish our electric bills on Long Island NY were that cheap. That same tub would cost 50-60 dollars a month. LIPA is a monopoly on long island and is brutal so power conservation and efficiency tubs are a high value to a majority of the people. A non foamed tub with the components contained in the tub are about 25-35 dollars a month.

[SmilinBare]

i goofed

[Brulan1]

i goofed

Goofed what?

[turbottt1]

Hello to all!!!! This is where we stand as of today. We've checked out artic, hot springs, sundance, d1 and masters spas. My wife and I seem to be leaning towards the artic spas. Were just not sure of which model. [ frontier, kodiak, klondiker] Were going to spend all day at the IX center tuesday and figure out which of the lounger layouts we like best. I'll keep you all informed as to how the process is coming. steve

[mjs]

I gotta disagree with statements made by Brulan; “24hr circulating pump puts ozone 24/7 with a uv bulb wich is more expensive to operate than a plasma cell ozone that coleman offers, and also 24hrs of ozone could prove cancerous. Plasma doesn't lose its potency as quick as UV does. Do you think a 24hr pump running all the time that never shuts off would last more than 2 yrs.? Do you think that the circulating pump actually filters the water 100percent or just the water within the vicinity of the pump? Actually the whole body of water isn't being circulated unless people are in the tub pushing the part of the water not being filtered into the area of a circulating pump. Why would you want something running 24hrs. I just cannot understand that logic. Oh-well I guess people have to learn for themselves”

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

My spa has an ozonator and 24-hour circ pump, and DOES NOT use ultraviolet! There are two primary methods to genetate ozone for these applications, UV, and corona discharge (also described as electrodes, and plasma). The corona discharge in considered by most to be superior,

“also 24hrs of ozone could prove cancerous”. Then why is ozonation one of the technologies continuously pushed by EPA? Ozone id merely a fast acting disinfectant. The biggest problem is it has a VERY SHORT half-life.

“Do you think a 24hr pump running all the time that never shuts off would last more than 2 yrs.?” YES, YES, YES. The biggest problem well designed machinery has is shutting them down and restarting. Major equipment runs great when its operating, shut them down, and they may not restart. Another reason I favor a 24-hour circ pump is they are relatively quiet. I get 24-hour circulation and filtering, with little noise (and minimal power consumption). Last – I think there’s a reason my spa’s warranty has 5 yea5rs full coverage of all pumps and plumbing components, including the circ pump.

Another question, for Brulan: what spa company do you work for? It seems pretty obvious you’re biased to a couple of companies, and I think we all would like to know where you're coming from.