Very Strong 'skin sensitivity' reaction to Bromine hot tub. How to do a bathtub test for a “Chlorine” reaction?

[Davekro]

[Edit: My wife told me her Dr. said she had a skin ‘sensitivity’ to Bromine, not an ‘allergic reaction’. I have changed my references to ‘allergy/allergic’ to ‘skin sensitivity’. The link says that ‘skin sensitivity’ (irritant contact dermatitis) shows a reaction, rash, in 1–2 hours (which she had), whereas ‘allergic contact dermatitis’ is an immune system reaction that takes from 24 to 48 hours to show symptoms. The ‘skin sensitivity reaction’ was quite severe for her, so it is still a significant issue. This article talks about testing patches of skin on your arm, like a dermatologist would do. I’ll have her ask her Dr. if he/she can recommend a chlorine % solution to apply to her arm as a chlorine sensitivity test, rather than dunking her whole body in a bathtub of chlorinated water!]

 

Before we go through the hassle of draining the tub and restarting with Chlorine as the sanitizer instead of Bromine, to see if Chlorine causes my wife no skin rashes, we want to fill the bathtub with hot water and simulate the chlorine water conditions that would be the same as if we convert the hot tub to chlorine.

So here are our questions:

1) Is it common for some people to have a skin sensitivity reaction to Bromine, but NOT to Chlorine? What are the odds of this? (I’ll have her ask her Dr. about this too.)

2)How do I create a bathtub chlorine environment to match a hot tub's? [We may hold off for a possible arm skin patch test for chlorine if that is an option.]

a) Would I need to reduce our tap water's 370 ppm TA (Total Alkalinity) down below 70 ppm (our hot tub's current TA is 40 ppm), then get the PH adjusted between 7.4- 7.7 before adding Chlorine to make the test valid as close as possible to apples to apples to the actual hot tub?

b) How much of 7.5% chlorine to initially add to say ≈ 30 gallons of bath water to get an in-range chlorine level?

c) I only have a Taylor K-2106 'Bromine' test kit. Is there a workaround test that will tell me the effective Chlorine level I need to measure? If I can't do that with my K-2106 kit/reagents, what reagents would I need to buy to perform a proper Chlorine level test for our experimental bathtub test?

3) Are people with similar Bromine sensitivity able to completely avoid skin irritant sensitivity reactions of rashes and bumps by simply taking Antihistamines like: 25mg Benadryl or 10mg Cetirizine HCI (Zyrtec or Amazon Generic), 10 mg Loratadine (Claritin or Amazon Generic)? If so, what doses and how long before and after?

The Background:

We purchased a brand-new Bullfrog A6L (310 gals) Hot tub with the only time it was filled was at OEM water test at the time of manufacture, three months prior. The tub was purged, water balanced, Bromine Reserve added, Chlorine Shock done, PH & Bromine levels have been kept in range. It causes my wife extreme rash and bumps, but I have no skin reactions at all. Our initial soak (103º F, PH 7.6, Ttl. Bromine 6ppm, TA 30 ppm) caused her an extreme skin irritation reaction where she had a rash and bumps on her trunk, arms and legs. I am using a Taylor K-2106 'Complete (FAS-DPD bromine)' test kit.

She said the pain and itching for a week was worse than her prior bout of Covid. It kept her awake all night. A week and a half later we let the Total Bromine drop to zero, PH ≈7.6, TA 40ppm. The water temp was only at 93º F. The skin irritation reaction was nowhere near as strong, but she still felt it coming on 1–2 hours after her soak. She took one Zyrtec 10mg Cetirizine HCI Antihistamine at that time and for two days following and the rash dissipated. I have had no skin irritation reactions at all. 

Installation, thorough Purge and refill process:

Three weeks ago, after the brand new hot tub was installed, I filled it (310 gals) and did a purge using AHH!some. Ran jets on high w/ air for 30-minutes, wiped away the green sludge from the shell above the water line and scooped a few small patches from the water. I then removed the four Bullfrog JetPaks and cleaned the green from them that was at the waterline. As an extra precaution, I then ran the jets on high for a second 30-minute period. There was only a small amount of green residue to wipe away this time. I then sprayed ≈ 50 gallons of water into the tub via each jet to rinse any lingering residue of green biofilm and AHH!some purge. I siphoned out then used a shop vac to completely drain the foot well as well as vacuuming each JetPak supply pipe and all the lowest fixed jets. I have rinsed the filter once per week. I am pretty sure we can rule out ‘hot tub folliculitis’.

Thank you, Dave

Edited March 2 by Davekro
Revised allegic/allergy mentions to 'skin sensitivity' for medical accuracy.

[Davekro]

waterbear, Thank you for moving my post to the water chemistry thread.

[waterbear]

17 hours ago, Davekro said:

Is it common for some people to have a skin sensitivity reaction to Bromine, but NOT to Chlorine? What are the odds of this?

Yes, while some people might be sensitive to all halogens it is usually bromine that causes problems. Also, bromine is often used in conjunction with MPS, which is also a sensitizer.

 

17 hours ago, Davekro said:

How do I create a bathtub chlorine environment to match a hot tub's? 

By filling with the same water and balancing the water with the same chemicals used in the tub to the same parameters.

If your wife spills liquid chlorine laundry bleach on her skin (which is much more concentrated than the amount of chlorine in a tub or pool), does she have any type of reaction? If not then you can pretty much rule out a sensitivity to chlorine which, as I said, is not very common.

 

17 hours ago, Davekro said:

a) Would I need to reduce our tap water's 370 ppm TA (Total Alkalinity) down below 70 ppm (our hot tub's current TA is 40 ppm), then get the PH adjusted between 7.4- 7.7 before adding Chlorine to make the test valid as close as possible to apples to apples to the actual hot tub?

IF you want to recreate the conditions in the tub then yes. However, it might be diffiult in the bath tub. The water temperature needs to be the same also.

If you only want to test for chlorine then you need to add enough liquid laundry bleach or dichlor to create a Free Chlorine level of 4 or 5 ppm.

17 hours ago, Davekro said:

How much of 7.5% chlorine to initially add to say ≈ 30 gallons of bath water to get an in-range chlorine level?

1 teaspoon will raise 30 gallons to about 3 ppm so add 1.5 to 2 teaspoons.

17 hours ago, Davekro said:

I only have a Taylor K-2106 'Bromine' test kit. Is there a workaround test that will tell me the effective Chlorine level I need to measure? If I can't do that with my K-2106 kit/reagents, what reagents would I need to buy to perform a proper Chlorine level test for our experimental bathtub test?

If you want to use the FAS-DPD test then you would need to get R-871 titrant for chlorine. With a 10 ml sample each drop is .5 ppm FC. with a 25 ml sample each drop is .2 ppm FC. You can also get an inexpensive 2 way test kit that uses OTO reagent with a comparator that has yellow color blocks on the chlorine/bromine test. It will test total chlorine,which should be close enough for what you are trying to do.

If you do switch to chlorine and want to continue using the K-2106 you will need, in addition to R-871, R-0003 for the combined chlorine test anda CYA test kit such as Taylor K-1721 or just purchase a K-2006 which will have the instructions for the CYA and chlorine tests and duplicates for the pH, acid/base demand, TA, and CH tests but might be the most cost effective way since you will need these tests for both chlorine and bromine so the reagents will not go to waste and a seond comparator is useful to have on hand.

17 hours ago, Davekro said:

Are people with similar Bromine sensitivity able to completely avoid skin irritant sensitivity reactions of rashes and bumps by simply taking Antihistamines like: 25mg Benadryl or 10mg Cetirizine HCI (Zyrtec or Amazon Generic), 10 mg Loratadine (Claritin or Amazon Generic)? If so, what doses and how long before and after?

Ask your doctor but if it is not an allergic reaction but a contact dermatitis (irritation reaction) then I would think antihistamines would not be the treatment of choice since they are used to treat an allergic response  and that topical steroids would be more likely to be of help. I am not a medical professional so, once again, ask your doctor.

As a last resort, if your wife is sensitive to both bromine and chlorine your only alternative is to use a biguinde/peroxide based sanitizer system such as BaquaSpa or SoftSoak. I am not a fan of these since they are expensive, tend to clog filters and create scum in the spa (often referred to as BaquaGoo), can attack some spa plastic parts and might void your warranty (check with the manufacturer) and sometimes develop white water mold or pink slime (both bacterial) in the water. Biguinide/peroxide is the only other EPA approved sanitizer for home pool and spas besides chlorine or bromine based systems (including "mineral" systems such as Nature 2 and Frog, which do require the use of some chlorine or bromine).

 

[THE DUDE]

(including "mineral" systems such as Nature 2 and Frog, which do require the use of some chlorine or bromine).

Hopefully i dont get to far off topic

It was my understanding the N2 stick which I use required MPS along with the chlorine. I looked on the zodiac site and read you could use it with just chlorine but it would not control algea without MPS . i called them a few months ago I had mentioned in another post and they could not really answer any questions becuase they just did not know. Not a good feeling that the people that make it don't know about it. I backed off my use of MPS becuase it knocked the socks off my ph when i used it. Just using Vertexx liquid pool shock, my ph stays steady between .2 points on my 2006 kit. I noticed back when I started my hot tub and was using  MPS more frequently I had more of a chalking uncomfortable feeling against my skin. I could however,just be nuts. I'm still using the stick more as a backup.

[waterbear]

MPS is a known sensitizer and many people get skin reactions from its use.