Caldera Vs Hs

[spa searcher]

We're going to replace the 11 year old Sundance that we purchased (used) 8 years or so ago. It has leaked chronically and it'll be hauled away soon - and replaced by ... I think a Caldera or HS - or maybe Marquis.

The IMPRESSION I get from the local Caldera dealer, who seems very informed and who managed a HS store for years, is that Caldera - though not the most visible of the Watkins line (I think Hot Springs holds that position), may employ newer/superior technology. He suggested that the heater and shell are both superior, due to Watkins redesigning the Caldera line upon acquiring it several years ago. As for leaking plumbing and shells, the salesman insists he can count on one hand the number of times his customers have reported problems in these areas.

I find little discussion of Caldera in these forums, though tons of talk regarding HS. I'm interested in informed opinions.

As for Marquis, I like the idea of buying one made in my home state of Oregon. But I was told the insulation on these is open-cell, and I'm a little gun-shy of leaks that might resemble the nightmarish innards of the Sundance that's awaiting its third-life at the local landfill. Ideas on Marquis?

We will wet test, but so far I'm trying to narrow our focus to quality companies that offer local service. So I'll appreciate any info, particularly in regard to Caldera.

Thanks!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

As for Marquis, I like the idea of buying one made in my home state of Oregon. But I was told the insulation on these is open-cell, and I'm a little gun-shy of leaks that might resemble the nightmarish innards of the Sundance that's awaiting its third-life at the local landfill. Ideas on Marquis?

We will wet test, but so far I'm trying to narrow our focus to quality companies that offer local service. So I'll appreciate any info, particularly in regard to Caldera.

Thanks!

In this case I think you should wet test and then ask if you're still unsure as both are good spa brands. You'll find people on each side of the fence preferring their brand (nothing wrong with that) but more often than not, wet testing both will point you in one direction or the other.

[spa rookie]

I agree...wet test...but I think you will find that Sundance has almost completely eliminated the problems that you had with your 11 year old spa. For that matter, most companies have. Anyone still using an 11 year old manufacturing process is probably selling tubs at Costco for $3,000 now.

Good luck! I don't own any...but I can tell you from my research that Sundance is the best overall...in terms of technology, manufacturing, convenience features, asthetics and service...they are getting my money in about 15 days.

Good luck!

[spa searcher]

In this case I think you should wet test and then ask if you're still unsure as both are good spa brands. You'll find people on each side of the fence preferring their brand (nothing wrong with that) but more often than not, wet testing both will point you in one direction or the other.

Thanks for the prompt reply. So no known Achilles' with Hot Springs, Caldera or Marquis?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Thanks for the prompt reply. So no known Achilles' with Hot Springs, Caldera or Marquis?

No. I've often said that sometimes it's more important who NOT to buy from (I have my list but I'll refrain) but in this case all the makers you mention are not only not in the "stay away" group but are top notch IMO.

[I Need a Spa]

No. I've often said that sometimes it's more important who NOT to buy from (I have my list but I'll refrain) but in this case all the makers you mention are not only not in the "stay away" group but are top notch IMO.

Hey Spa Searcher -

What's your price point?

Last month I narrowed my search down to Sundance or Caldera. I found that for $5600 I could buy a Sundance Bahia and be happy with it, so I did. I also tested Caldera Geneva Utopia ($8500) and Hawaiian Paradise ($7200).

You asked for specifics so here it is:

- Geneva lounger is deep. People shorter than about 5'5" will need a snorkle (my wife) or a water pillow

- Hawaiian is great, but not $1700 greater thean the Bahia

- The low end Caldera tubs (whatever they call them) have a 2 year waranty but the Sundance Bahia has 5

Caldera makes a tub that is about the same as a Bahia, but given the warranty and 2 extra jets we went for the Sundance.

If money was not a factor I would have bought the Caldera Geneva Utopia. Engineering and build quality is better than Sundance and Hot Springs. (moto-massage is weird old technology). My wife would just have to sit on my lap.

Just my opinion.

[thestallion]

Hey Spa Searcher -

What's your price point?

Last month I narrowed my search down to Sundance or Caldera. I found that for $5600 I could buy a Sundance Bahia and be happy with it, so I did. I also tested Caldera Geneva Utopia ($8500) and Hawaiian Paradise ($7200).

You asked for specifics so here it is:

- Geneva lounger is deep. People shorter than about 5'5" will need a snorkle (my wife) or a water pillow

- Hawaiian is great, but not $1700 greater thean the Bahia

- The low end Caldera tubs (whatever they call them) have a 2 year waranty but the Sundance Bahia has 5

Caldera makes a tub that is about the same as a Bahia, but given the warranty and 2 extra jets we went for the Sundance.

If money was not a factor I would have bought the Caldera Geneva Utopia. Engineering and build quality is better than Sundance and Hot Springs. (moto-massage is weird old technology). My wife would just have to sit on my lap.

Just my opinion.

A couple of things one do not worry about the type of foam in the Marquis what it means is that if it leaks that water travels down and out making the leak much easier to find, as a example the foam on a Hot Springs will hold the water and cause it to be to spread though out the spa making the leak more difficult to locate. However both are very good and to have a leak will be very very uncommon for either of them. I hope not to ruffle anyones feathers here but the Caldera while being a nice spa is a step down from the Hot Springs. It is again a nice spa. but does somethings differently than either a Marquis or a Hot Springs. full foam yes but only on three sides of the spa as just one example.

[greenhut]

We had a Sundance, and for similar reasons, refused to consider again. Also similarly, our short list was HS, Caldera, Marquis. We bought the Caldera Geneva and love it. Please see details here:

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...c=523&hl=geneva

[deestruhart]

In answer to the question regarding Caldera Spas just some things I have learned over the years.

Caldera Spas are extremely well made, good looking Spas, and have remained one of the most trusted brands for 30 years.

All of the Spas go through rigorous inspections and quality tests, and offer a excellent warranty. Like most good Spa companies out there they have lot's of great features. They offer lots of models starting at a 2 person Aventine up to a full size, fully loaded, 7 person Spa, all at reasonable prices in various colors and seating arrangments. They are equipped with a excellent energy pro circulation and heating system ensuring warm, clean water and a quieter spa at all times saving you money on energy, and preventing heater corrosion caused by improper water quality, which is not covered by most other spa warranties.

They also have Ozone systems saving you time, and hundreds of dollars a year on chemicals.

Hey Spa Searcher -

What's your price point?

Last month I narrowed my search down to Sundance or Caldera. I found that for $5600 I could buy a Sundance Bahia and be happy with it, so I did. I also tested Caldera Geneva Utopia ($8500) and Hawaiian Paradise ($7200).

You asked for specifics so here it is:

- Geneva lounger is deep. People shorter than about 5'5" will need a snorkle (my wife) or a water pillow

- Hawaiian is great, but not $1700 greater thean the Bahia

- The low end Caldera tubs (whatever they call them) have a 2 year waranty but the Sundance Bahia has 5

Caldera makes a tub that is about the same as a Bahia, but given the warranty and 2 extra jets we went for the Sundance.

If money was not a factor I would have bought the Caldera Geneva Utopia. Engineering and build quality is better than Sundance and Hot Springs. (moto-massage is weird old technology). My wife would just have to sit on my lap.

Just my opinion.

I do not agree with the prices you have on here. I wish you had more facts before you had put that up there.

I sell a Paradise Hawaiin for $6599.00 and 9 of my models have a 10 year no leak shell, 7 yearshell surface,

and 5 year no leak plumbing, equipment and controls, and energy pro heating, and 3 year echo tech cabinet

In answer to the question regarding Caldera Spas just some things I have learned over the years.

Caldera Spas are extremely well made, good looking Spas, and have remained one of the most trusted brands for 30 years.

All of the Spas go through rigorous inspections and quality tests, and offer a excellent warranty. Like most good Spa companies out there they have lot's of great features. They offer lots of models starting at a 2 person Aventine up to a full size, fully loaded, 7 person Spa, all at reasonable prices in various colors and seating arrangments. They are equipped with a excellent energy pro circulation and heating system ensuring warm, clean water and a quieter spa at all times saving you money on energy, and preventing heater corrosion caused by improper water quality, which is not covered by most other spa warranties.

They also have Ozone systems saving you time, and hundreds of dollars a year on chemicals.

I do not agree with the prices you have on here. I wish you had more facts before you had put that up there.

I sell a Paradise Hawaiin for $6599.00 and 9 of my models have a 10 year no leak shell, 7 yearshell surface,

and 5 year no leak plumbing, equipment and controls, and energy pro heating, and 3 year echo tech cabinet

Bahia is not a Geneva or a hawaiin. Geneva is one of our top of the lineFully loaded, very big Spas. There are lots of smaller ones,with loungers that are more suitable for most people. A Hawaiin on the other hand has no lounger, no out side cabinet lighting, no waterfalland is smaller and about $3500.00 cheaper. Hot springs is the higher end of Watkins the same manufacturer that makes Caldera.

The models that have a 2 year warranty are 2 tubs we offer at a very low price, same good quality, But I have not sold any of those tubs at our store yet. when we shopped around all the spa dealers within a 80 mile radious around us we found our prices for the same quality to be very reasonable we hear from customers what the other dealer was offering when the customer comes back after shopping around.

[thestallion]

In answer to the question regarding Caldera Spas just some things I have learned over the years.

Caldera Spas are extremely well made, good looking Spas, and have remained one of the most trusted brands for 30 years.

They also have Ozone systems saving you time, and hundreds of dollars a year on chemicals.

Bahia is not a Geneva or a hawaiin. Geneva is one of our top of the lineFully loaded, very big Spas. There are lots of smaller ones,with loungers that are more suitable for most people. A Hawaiin on the other hand has no lounger, no out side cabinet lighting, no waterfalland is smaller and about $3500.00 cheaper. Hot springs is the higher end of Watkins the same manufacturer that makes Caldera.

The models that have a 2 year warranty are 2 tubs we offer at a very low price, same good quality, But I have not sold any of those tubs at our store yet. when we shopped around all the spa dealers within a 80 mile radious around us we found our prices for the same quality to be very reasonable we hear from customers what the other dealer was offering when the customer comes back after shopping around.

Am I misreading your words about ozone here? First you almost make it sound like ozone is some how unique to Caldera which of course it is not but more importantly to say you are going to save hundreds of dollars in chemicals is vastly over stating the value of ozone. It aids in helping to keep your water clean and may save someone a few dollars a year and Yes it is useful to have but it will not save anyone hundreds of dollars a year. By the way all of Marquis spas come standard with factory installed UL approved ozone.

[Guzz]

A couple of things one do not worry about the type of foam in the Marquis what it means is that if it leaks that water travels down and out making the leak much easier to find, as a example the foam on a Hot Springs will hold the water and cause it to be to spread though out the spa making the leak more difficult to locate.

Not True, HotSprings is insulated with a closed cell foam that does not absorb water.

[Brulan1]

Not True, HotSprings is insulated with a closed cell foam that does not absorb water.

The positive side is that if you have a good dealer these are things not to worry about with foam issue untill your warranty is up and in that case selling the spa to upgrade might be a great option or extended warranties if available

[thestallion]

Not True, HotSprings is insulated with a closed cell foam that does not absorb water.

The water spiders in a Hot Springs making the leak harder to find. What is it that you mean.

[Brulan1]

The water spiders in a Hot Springs making the leak harder to find. What is it that you mean.

As long as the components are accessable, unless you have freeze damage it doesn't matter. But you are right with finding a leak with a hotsprings. Alot of money and labor to try to find a leak when it does occur because of the type of foaming.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

The positive side is that if you have a good dealer these are things not to worry about with foam issue untill your warranty is up and in that case selling the spa to upgrade might be a great option or extended warranties if available

Leaks should be rare on a well made spa. Furthermore, why in the world would you look to sell the spa just because it is past it's warranty; that's a poor idea in my opinion. I see well made spas out there that are well past 10 yrs and going strong. It's the poorly built spas that are landfill candidates before they ever get to 10 yrs old that are what you want to avoid.

[thestallion]

Leaks should be rare on a well made spa. Furthermore, why in the world would you look to sell the spa just because it is past it's warranty; that's a poor idea in my opinion. I see well made spas out there that are well past 10 yrs and going strong. It's the poorly built spas that are landfill candidates before they ever get to 10 yrs old that are what you want to avoid.

I agree with you that on a well made spa like a Hot Springs or Marquis that leaks for the most part are a non issue YES they can happen but are few and far between. My point and my response was that the person mentioned the foam in the Marquis as a concern and not that it should be much of concern in this case for either the Marquis or the Hot Springs , if there was any at all it lays more with the Hot Springs regarding the ease of locating the leak. BUT again both are well made and again really leaks for either are a anomaly and something that when looked at the number of spas they sell are less than 1%.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I agree with you that on a well made spa like a Hot Springs or Marquis that leaks for the most part are a non issue YES they can happen but are few and far between. My point and my response was that the person mentioned the foam in the Marquis as a concern and not that it should be much of concern in this case for either the Marquis or the Hot Springs , if there was any at all it lays more with the Hot Springs regarding the ease of locating the leak. BUT again both are well made and again really leaks for either are a anomaly and something that when looked at the number of spas they sell are less than 1%.

You were right to set the record straight about the FACT of Marquis having closed cell foam but you probably would have been better off not adding how it was better than Hot Springs foam as that just starts another opinion based thread direction. I'd be defensive also if someone was throwing out baseless claims but you don't want to go down their path either.

[thestallion]

You were right to set the record straight about the FACT of Marquis having closed cell foam but you probably would have been better off not adding how it was better than Hot Springs foam as that just starts another opinion based thread direction. I'd be defensive also if someone was throwing out baseless claims but you don't want to go down their path either.

Fair enough but I do not think I ever used the word better at all. Unless my memory is incorrect all I said was with the foam in the Marquis that leaks are easier to locate as that was the concern.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Fair enough but I do not think I ever used the word better at all.

Ture, it started out with some wacked out salesman saying Marquis wasn't closed cell which you corrected but you also added "The water spiders in a Hot Springs making the leak harder to find." which i'd say is a form of "ours is better". I'm not trying to nitpick here but that was what I was referring to and again, I'd be peeved if someone said that about my spas when it wasn't true (though I'm not really representing anyone here, just playing hall monitor).

[Brulan1]

Ture, it started out with some wacked out salesman saying Marquis wasn't closed cell which you corrected but you also added "The water spiders in a Hot Springs making the leak harder to find." which i'd say is a form of "ours is better". I'm not trying to nitpick here but that was what I was referring to and again, I'd be peeved if someone said that about my spas when it wasn't true (though I'm not really representing anyone here, just playing hall monitor).

In a full cased foam spa there isn't enough mobility in the pipes to move and after a while of turning the pumps on and off it makes a riviting affect to the foam around the piping in the back of the jets and in alot of cases causing leaks and spider cracks from the cold air entering the tub. You are right about the mere 1percent of tubs not well manufacturered. Its rare to have a leak in that area as the components are more proned to leaking because no heat in dead air space and the cold comes in through the opening under the panel and above the pan and ruins components for the most part. Both are excellent tubs.

[thestallion]

Ture, it started out with some wacked out salesman saying Marquis wasn't closed cell which you corrected but you also added "The water spiders in a Hot Springs making the leak harder to find." which i'd say is a form of "ours is better". I'm not trying to nitpick here but that was what I was referring to and again, I'd be peeved if someone said that about my spas when it wasn't true (though I'm not really representing anyone here, just playing hall monitor).

I hope we can stop this here, . But to make this very very clear all I was referring to was the mis- conception about the foam in the Marquis and that the concern they had actually was more applicable in the Hot Springs in no way was my intent to suggest ours is better just that when it comes to leaks which again I pointed out that it is very unlikely with either one that in the Hot Springs they are harder to find which is simply true. But again both are fine fine spas and leaks are not a real area of concern in either one.

[Brulan1]

I hope we can stop this here, . But to make this very very clear all I was referring to was the mis- conception about the foam in the Marquis and that the concern they had actually was more applicable in the Hot Springs in no way was my intent to suggest ours is better just that when it comes to leaks which again I pointed out that it is very unlikely with either one that in the Hot Springs they are harder to find which is simply true. But again both are fine fine spas and leaks are not a real area of concern in either one.

At least not until after 5 years.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

At least not until after 5 years.

Well, at least the spas will have a 10 year anniversary as Roger indicated and more to come.

[deestruhart]

I have saved alot more than a few dollars per year on chemicals with the ozone system in the Caldera spas, you should try one before saying it's not true.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I have saved alot more than a few dollars per year on chemicals with the ozone system in the Caldera spas, you should try one before saying it's not true.

You don't have to convince me; a good CD ozonator will defintely help you with water maintenance. I don't like to dwell on chemical savings as I'm more into the fact that they make life so much easier but you do use less chems too. One person pointed out that it would certrainly take a few years of chemical savings to even get recoup the cost of the ozonator and he's right but I've seen the frustration on people's faces from cloudy stinky water and also saw how well these Cd ozonators work to make water care much easier so I'm sold for that reason alone!!