Who knows their Balboa Spa Paks vey well?

[Kvillebaker]

Good day folks.  I am a bit of a newbie when it comes to fixing hot tubs but I am handy and certainly like tinkering to get things to work that most would walk away from.  With that said, I have inherited a small two man hot tub.  Last year, I had to have the motor rebuilt and while it was out of the tub, I replaced the wet end.  Things ran very well last summer.  In December the motor quit again.  So I winterized the tub and waited til this spring to work on it again.  I ordered a brand new motor (identical to the original Waterway 3hp 2x2 148 frame) Hooked it up but couldn't get it to work properly under load. Without load it worked fine.  I determined the problem to be the primary relay that wasn't allowing 220 to get to the motor.  It ran well without load because 110 was enough to operate it.  So now I make the decision to just replace the circuit board or go hog wild and replace the whole pak because who knows how much life the heater has in it.  I priced new circuit boards - approx. $450.  I priced new paks and for mine is around $650.  Then low and behold I come across a used pak that appears in great condition for $50 so I pick it up on a whim.  Now I need to know if I can make it work.  

Here is my original system - VS504sz running the 3hp 2 speed waterway motor.  Here is the new pak - CS504sz that was running 2 motors (came with it's original top side control).  The question now is, can I configure this spa pak to run my one motor system.  If so, are you able to describe exactly what I need to do to set up the configuration?  ex. Move wires, change dip switch settings etc.  

If this is not possible, I get it.  But for $50 it didnt break the bank to try.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Mark

[CanadianSpaTech]

You could have just got the replay replaced in the original board. Relays are cheap and I'm sure there is an electronics guy in your area that could do the job.

On the Balboa boards red AC = 240V white AC = 120V. know the voltage of the component (Pump, ozone etc) and run the white wire beside the plug in location to the corresponding red or white AC area. 

So the $50 board having 2 pumps available and you only have a single 2 speed pump makes no difference to the board its self. Plug your 2 speed into pump 1 location and make sure the white wire (W1) is in the right spot for the voltage of the pump. You will likely have to use the coast topside to match the pump but your original may work as well. Don't think any dip switches need to be changed unless the coast spa it came out of had a circ pump and I don't think Coast ever used one

Here is the hot sheet for the original board and should be the same for the new board: file:///C:/Users/Owner/Pictures/VS504SZ 54637_97_D.pdf

 

[RDspaguy]

I can't imagine a circumstance where a failed relay would cause 120v to the motor when wired for 240v. It is a hard-wired connection either to hot or neutral. The only time I have seen that occur is with a faulty gfci breaker.

Aside from that, Canadaguy summed it up. Just make sure you have it properly wired for the voltage of the motor and test it before you plug in the motor. 

Good job Canadaguy! And it's not even a gecko! I'm proud of you, buddy.👍

 

[CanadianSpaTech]

@RDspaguy Balboa is making me lots of money these days. Keep doing what your doing Balboa Cha Ching 🤑

[Kvillebaker]

@RDspaguy @CanadianSpaTech if you figure it’s not the relay, then what do you suspect it would be. When I changed the motor, I didn’t touch any wiring in the pak and very sure that I was attaching wires to the new motor just as they were on the old motor (by label, not necessarily by placement).  When turned on, the pump would circulate but wouldn’t Go into second gear to prime. But when I take the load of the water off it would function just fine. I had an electrician friend put his meters on everything and he came to the conclusion that there was not 220 coming out of the primary relay. When we took the wire harness off of the primary relay and hooked it into the pump 2 relay it had lots of power but of course had no control to just circulate. 

Now secondly, I haven’t been in the game long enough to have any brand preference and have only priced replacing with what it had (Balboa). If you were to change for another brand (say Gheko) What model would you go with for what I have described my system to be. Please keep in mind that I need a small control pad. The fibreglass platform on the tub will not allow for a large pad. (Which I might add, I discovered That problem today with the $50 used one that I bought - damn!!)

[RDspaguy]

Post a pic of the circuit board.

Balboa vs systems are less than $400. I wouldn't put a gecko in my spa if it was free. Canadaguy loves them, but they are Canadian like he is. I think he's just patriotic (or idiotic).🤣

[CanadianSpaTech]

13 hours ago, Kvillebaker said:

Now secondly, I haven’t been in the game long enough to have any brand preference and have only priced replacing with what it had (Balboa). If you were to change for another brand (say Gheko) What model would you go with for what I have described my system to be. Please keep in mind that I need a small control pad. The fibreglass platform on the tub will not allow for a large pad. (Which I might add, I discovered That problem today with the $50 used one that I bought - damn!!)

Don't get caught up in our brand preference thing it is more of a Canadian (Gecko #1) vs usa deal between @RDspaguy and myself and all in fun. We need as many smiles in a day that we can get in these tough times. Both manufacturers have plus and balboa a lot of minus. In your case switching over to Gecko would require swapping all the component plug wires as they use different style connectors so stick with balboa..booo

To be clear you tested for power coming off the circuit board female connection  (where the pump plugs onto the board) without the pump connected and then tested off the circuit board with the pump put into both hi and low speeds during testing?

12 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

I think he's just patriotic (or idiotic)

Maple syrup and Gecko...all we got

[RDspaguy]

49 minutes ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

Maple syrup and Gecko...all we got

No, they've got you too, buddy.😁

[Kvillebaker]

@CanadianSpaTech Order of testing. 1. A physical test - everything wired up and plugged in as it should be.  No load.  Motor responded perfectly to commands from the top side.  2. Physical test with water load.  Pump would circulate but would not go into high gear. Labouring and getting quite hot. 3. Meter test at the female plug on circuit board at Pump 1.  Meter indicated that only 110 was being sent to the motor.  Electrician (admittedly not tub repairman) thought relay must have been faulty.  4. Physical test with water load - motor plugged into Pump 2 position.  Lots of power at the motor. But of course no control to circulate only.  5. Meter test at Pump 2 plug - indicated 220 going to the motor.  That concluded the amount of testing performed.

By the way, not that it matters. I, too, am Canadian. I'm surprised we don't know each other!! 😉

[CanadianSpaTech]

Suggest removing board and look on backside for burnt or darkened areas around relays. Milton, On and have a board repair guy in Guelph if you are in Southern Ontario.

[RDspaguy]

I would say it is wired for 120v. Right beside the pump 1 plug is a white wire that comes off the board and goes either to the neutral terminals or the red phase terminals. Check this wire and confirm it goes to the same set of terminals as the one from the pump 2 plug. 

[Kvillebaker]

Thanks guys for giving this any attention. I had written off this board but the fact that you keep providing input gives me hope. You must really like doing this. Guys like me really appreciate guys like you. Anyway, here is a pic of my vs504 board and a pic of its diagram. If you still feel like diagnosing, please have at it. I’m really curious as to what you think. If the wires in the box are not in the right place, I can’t explain it. It worked well with the old motor and I did not touch any wires in the box when I installed the new pump. 

[RDspaguy]

Move the white wire by the pump 1 plug to the "red ac" terminals, where there is currently only one white wire connected, as shown in the wiring diagram.

[RDspaguy]

And where is the fuse? There should be a 30amp fuse in the f5 fuse holder above the white wires.

[Kvillebaker]

Yah. The fuse is out. Like I said I had written this pak off. Had it all taken out of the tub And salvaged the fuse to put in the $50 pak I bought. Guess I know what I’m doing this weekend now. Again have no idea how I might have moved wires in the pak. But willing to give your suggestion a try. Do you know if I can get Replacement top side overlays for older units?

Edited May 30, 2020 by Kvillebaker
Added photo

[CanadianSpaTech]

Yep w1 to red AC also move dip switch 3 to down position...A2 up A 10 down..replace fuse and you should be good to go. If you didn't move any wires wonder how it was set for 120V unless the original motor was 120V. Do you still have it and if you do can you have a look to see if it is rated 120V or 240

Let us know results

1 hour ago, Kvillebaker said:

You must really like doing this.

I was more than happy to help...until I just saw your from Ottawa (spits on ground) Go Leafs!

[Kvillebaker]

Holy ****. Now I’m into dips? You guys aren’t trying to fry me are you? Your talking to a guy that knows little to nothing about electrical. Yah, I’m one of those guys. I just play around til things work but 220 is a not one to mess with. This project was supposed to be just plug and play items. I might be getting in over my head. 🙃

[CanadianSpaTech]

You are so close... the dip switches are in the little red box bottom right/middle numbered 1-10 left to right 

 

Balboa TP600 5 button overlay... When you install just silicone the topside in so you won't have to peel the sticker up to get at the screws in case you need to remove it at a later date.

Try calling York at  613-276-7504  HotTubStuff.com in Ottawa they might be able to get it for you

[RDspaguy]

Before you go changing dips, what is the amp rating of your breaker? If it is not at least 40 amps, leave the dips alone.

[Kvillebaker]

Ok guys. I think you got it. I bought the wrong damn pump. But no worries. I have everything reassembled and ready for power. If I go with your dip instructions it ends up being just number 2 is up. The rest are down. Is this correct?

[CanadianSpaTech]

Looks good did you confirm breaker for RD...Whats the last plug I see at top above pack...ozone? Lift that sensor wire up off the copper tab as well

[Kvillebaker]

Thanks guys. I’m up and running. I can’t thank you enough. If you were closer I’d buy you a beer at least. The service you gave me was above and beyond. Thanks again. The 220 motor is so much more powerful, yes but also much quieter. Now back to the control panel. Are you sure on the model number you gave? I looked it up. It is a 6 button and even if i installed it so that one of the buttons was redundant, the placement of the buttons is different than mine?  Suggestions?

[CanadianSpaTech]

Should be some numbers on the underside of the topside to verify what panel you have.. 

[RDspaguy]

The topside is just buttons and a display. Worst that will happen is the buttons will work the wrong things, light button adjusts temp and such.

[Kvillebaker]

I’m looking at replacing the top side since I can’t find a proper overlay. The VL200 has the same controls as mine but in a 4 button layout rather than 5. The temp is controlled by 1 button rather than 2. Would this be a plug and play replacement or is changing top sides much more complicated or just not possible?