New to the forum- Seriously considering a hot tub. Could use your insight

[LakeForkFisherman]

Hello everyone.  My wife and I have been looking at hot tubs for a month and are near ready to make a decision. Never had a hot tub, but we have a pool.  We are in the Dallas, TX area, so plenty of choices of brands/dealers.  Available in our area- Aries, Bullfrog, Caldera, Cal Spas, Clearwater, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis, Sundance and several others.  We want QUALITY and expect this tub to last 15-20 years with proper care.  I have a few questions for you:

What brand is considered the highest quality?

What brand do you have?

Am I expecting too much for a quality tub to last 20 years?

 

Thank you.  I really appreciate your help.

[Cusser]

1 hour ago, LakeForkFisherman said:

What brand do you have?

Am I expecting too much for a quality tub to last 20 years?

 

I have a 1988 CalSpa Hawaiian model, mine since new, 240 VAC.  So 31 years for me.  So I have no idea about others and/or newer CalSpa. 

[LakeForkFisherman]

Thanks, Cusser.  31 years seems like a rarity based on what I’ve heard.  But I know the life of the spa is not solely dependent on the quality of the spa, but also the owner’s diligence in caring for it.  Well done.  I think you’ve gotten your money’s worth!

[ratchett]

Hey! Just finished my own hunt after months of researching.  I know this industry is full of a lot of scams (looking at you, LPI inc), so I wanted to learn as much as possible before diving in.  I waited twenty years to buy a tub and my requirements were a bit different from others since I was looking to buy a top of the line model, buy small enough to work on 110AC in my warm tropical climate (no need to run heater and jets at t he same time, especially since I'm a soaker type and don't need the jets running all the time I'm soaking in the tub)

First and foremost, I'll give you some advice based on my experiences and knowledge

• The dealer is just as important as the tub you're buying.  If you're spending $3000 on a used or junk spa that's one thing.  But if you're spending $7k+ on a spa, you're going to want a dealer to ensure they're there to help from installation/setup to several years down the road.   You need to "feel out" the dealers to figure out which fits your needs personally.  Many budget spas expect you to be your own service technician. While other dealers will give you premium white-glove service with $0 callout charges for the first five years of ownership.  I shopped around a dozen different dealers and only one stood out to me - a small family run business, selling and servicing HotSpring Spas exclusively for thirty years.  Hundreds of satisfied google customer reviews, and affordable prices.  I had done my research, I quizzed them on some technical questions (I knew the answers to going in), and they answered every one correctly. I felt great about my relationship with the company from the first visit.  The other HotSpring Dealer (equal distance away) was exactly the opposite - the dealer made several incorrect statements, they were trying to sell us a cheaper spa at a higher price (mid-level 300-series Jacuzzi vs the HotSpring Highlife collection I wanted).  Their prices were 25% higher, and they were selling multiple brands of spas, not one brand exclusively which made me question how well they will be able to service my spa in several years if there's a major problem (it's a heavy complicated device with lots of plumbing and vibrating parts - of course there are going to be a % of manufacturing defects along the way).   Be sure to interview the dealer - ensure you like the whole company not just the sales rep trying to earn a commission, because that's the company you're going to be forced to work with if there's a problem with your investment.
• WET TEST!  Most newbies think they want a lounger (Heck, I know I do!).  Although not all loungers are created equal, nor does everyone fit into them.  Many people tend to "float" out of loungers, so it's very important to test the lounger when it's filled with water to confirm you don't float out of the lounger and thus waste your money on something you will hardly use.  I was very happy once I managed to wet-test the lounger and realized I fit perfectly (5'11", average BMI) and did not float out of the lounger.  Also you need to ensure you like the jets - some tubs will blast you out of the seat, while others will simply make you "itch".
• Consider how many regular people will be using the spa - many beginners over-buy.  Getting a larger tub than they need. Most spa owners have visitors in the tub less than 2-3 times per year.  Do you really need those extra few seats for guests who won't be using the spa often?  I thought I needed a five seater, and opted instead for a three seater (plus a cooldown seat) for my first spa. 
• Most brands carry multiple product lines, not all of them are constructed to the same level.  Using HS again since that's the brand I've studied the most - they have three product lines - "Hot Spot", "Limelight", and "Highlife".  While all three product lines are decent tubs, the quality of the components used and materials used increases at every price point (Also the Highlife is the only one made in America, the other two product lines are assembled in Mexico).  Foam insulation being a big difference between product lines - higher product lines are going to use more insulation which helps them retain heat at a lower cost of ownership, and they run more efficiently putting less stress on the heater and other components. 
• Consider how you're going to sanitize your spa -  Many quality spas include an Ozonator, but these only work when water is moving through them.  So without a circ pump you're really not getting much benefit from the Ozonators, just be aware some brands hype up the benefit of Ozone without mentioning that fact.  If you opt for an Ozone, be sure you also get the optional circulation pump to go along with it - which quality brands like the HotSprings Highlife include standard on all models in that collection.  Jacuzzi and Sundance utilize a UV ray which they claim is effective, although I personally feel like an Ozonator works better than UV rays, and at a more cost-effective rate.  
• Age of older tubs is irrelevant to current discussion. I've seen quite a few owners who have had HotSpring Spas for many years (two plus decades in some cases) as well as other brands.  It's not uncommon for a high quality well built tub to last a long time if they are well built and maintained, the problem is that in the early 2000's a lot of companies got bought out by larger corporations who kept the brand names to sell more tubs, sometimes to obfuscate the customer so you cannot find reviews on the product.   Hotsprings and Caldera for example are owned by the same company, Sundance and Jacuzzi are built in the same factory, and there's countless brands sold under the LPI corporation.   I personally went into my hunt thinking I wanted a Jacuzzi brand tub, then quickly realized they were too overpriced for what I wanted and the style lacked the aesthetics I wanted as a younger couple in our mid 30's. Then I realized many of the competitors were offering a higher quality product at a more competitive price.    Additionally it depends on how the person uses their spa which determines how long it will last - these units are built to be filled and used/run constantly.  Leaving them dry or imbalanced water chemistry can really muck up the internals real fast. 

 

I cannot stress enough the value of shopping around to find the right dealer for your purchase.  Once I knew exactly what make/model spa I wanted, I visited two different dealers of that spa and the experiences could not be different.  One dealer was charging $3000 more, they were inexperienced, sold multiple products/brands ("fancy backyard store" as I call them), and their service rates were expensive for maintenance parts/supplies.  The other place had a more personable one-on-one experience (quiet store with large showroom), affordable prices, and their service/supply costs were noticeably cheaper for the same items (filters/cartridges, etc), and their building had a large service center in the back with technicians working/servicing spas as needed.  They were truly the professionals I trusted with my investment.  

My new 2019 HS Jetsetter arrives next Wednesday. I'm so excited for delivery, weather is perfect this time of the year for a dip before and after my work day!

[north_of_boston]

Amen, ratchett.

A good dealer will refer you to a good electrician,  give you solid advice,   and have reasonable estimates on costs,  etc.  

I've said this before - we did research -- and exhaustive research and it came down to,  not "how much will we pay?" BUT "what is the best deal for the money?"   We did not have a budgeted number in mind.     I realize that some people do have to work under a set plan,  we did not.  

 After some hand wringing and a sleepless night - we bought Arctic,  technology and durability.    We regret buying the salt / sanitation system - and shut it off when the manufacturer reduced the warranty on the cells for it from one year to 30 days.   Other than that,  we have no regrets after nearly ten years.   I had to replace a couple of parts (flo valve?) - the vinyl jacket for the cover (but NOT the cover!)   and a pump.    I'd say $1100 in maintenance over 10 years.

The important questions,  I see asking ,  when buying your first tub -

1)  How big do you want it ?    Seating four,  six,  ten?    We thought of that,  too  (this is our third tub)  and ours is a "six seater" - it gets pretty cramped with five,  and we realized that 90 percent of the time it's just one or two of us,   and the other ten percent,  four max.    Size = purchased accordingly.

2) Indoors or out?   (ours is outdoors).    What type of a climate do you have?   Some less expensive spas will hold up longer in warmer climates.     Here in coastal New England where anything can happen - and it DOES - durability is a factor.

3) How much technology do you need?    "oh wow,  a bluetooth connection!    You can monitor the pH levels while you're over in Europe!!"    Do you really need that?   And most dealers I ran into advised AGAINST having a sound system - some floor models have them,  OK,  but on a special order?    Uhhhh.  get outdoor speakers and use your stereo and iPad or,  go to WalMart or Canadian Tire and get a forty buck boombox.

4) It's not just the cost of the tub itself - but site prep and electrical connection.     And if it's outside - drainage,   in view of the neighbors,  etc.    Get electrical permits.   Etc.  etc.  etc.  more costs added to the total tub price.

There are MANY other things to consider - but I'm just adding to the mix here.

 

[ratchett]

On 10/14/2019 at 8:00 AM, LakeForkFisherman said:

What brand is considered the highest quality

Pretty much every brand you listed is a decent brand.  (Although avoid Any spa brand owned by LPI Inc brands - they are a terrible company which does not deserve your business)

You need to "interview" each local dealer and see which one you like the best.  Your dealer is your main point of contact with the manufacturer.  If you have a warranty service issue, your dealer is the one responsible for fixing it.  If they are a terrible dealer with a six month backlog of service tickets, tough tooties.  You have to wait regardless.  Make absolute certain your dealer is awesome and not going anywhere.    Many reputable dealers offer next-day service for warranty customers, find out if your dealer offers the same. 

 

On 10/14/2019 at 8:00 AM, LakeForkFisherman said:

 We want QUALITY and expect this tub to last 15-20 years with proper care

I just went through the same thing. After waiting twenty years to buy my first spa I wanted a quality spa with the cleanest water possible.  There's a lot of scummy brands in this industry, so your dealer is VERY important for the price you're paying.    All that said, here is the top 3 brands in this industry (ranked by website traffic to website according to Alexa.com):

• Jacuzzi (it's the name brand, you're going to pay for the brand name)
• Hotspring (Watkins premier brand - Caldera is secondary to Hotspring - they are the #2 spa brand behind Jacuzzi, and the biggest competitor to Jacuzzi)
• Bullfrog (the underdogs - smaller lesser known brand. Innovative approach to plumbing to reduce points of failure.  Has it's pros and cons, awesome innovative brand pushing biggest bang for buck on the market)

Beyond that, Sundance is owned by Jacuzzi, and Caldera and Hotsprings are owned by the same company (Watkins).  

Marquis spas seems to be the #4 dealer in the industry, with Artesian spas being #5 in terms of quality and bang for the buck.

If you're on a tight budget looking for a long-term investment I would seriously consider the Bullfrog A series. 

On 10/14/2019 at 8:00 AM, LakeForkFisherman said:

What brand is considered the highest quality?

Every dealer will try to say "Mine!".  Be wary of any dealer trash-talking other top brands.  The best dealers will highlight the pros of their tub and let you do your research into the best. I've listed the top five brands in this industry (based on website traffic, you can analyze public data yourself to confirm). They all have pro's and cons, but in reality your dealer is JUST as important as the brand you choose.  Make absolutely certain you trust them, they have a fair price on maintenance parts, and they have service technicians in-house to address any technical problems you may have.  My dealer for example is a small family-run business which has been operating for decades servicing and selling hotspring spas exclusively.  They are awesome - they don't sell anything else aside from Hotspring spa's and they are the experts regionally. They also charge $0 in call out fees for the first five years so they are there to literally hold my hand for the first five years of ownership.   My other hotspring dealer equal distance from my location was the exact opposite. Full MSRP prices with tiny "sale discounts", and inexperienced sales staff giving me incorrect information on the products. 

 

Every brand seems to sell multiple tiers depending on your budget.  Be sure to look at all price tiers and note the differences between the products.  Taking hotspring spas since I know them so well - HotSpot is the cheapest product line, LimeLight is the mid-tier, and Highlife is the top-tier.    Look at the insulation and you'll see only the "highlife" collection utilizes multi-density spray foam to lock together all joints and plumbing so nothing rattles loose.  While the mid-tier and bottom teir products use a "Fibercor" filller which is stuffed into the spa after assembly (good for insulation, not so good after five years of vibrations under 100+ pounds per square inch of water pressure on the plumbing while a jet pump is running!)

Since you want a spa to last two decades or more, you really need to consider the materials and construction quality used.

 

On 10/14/2019 at 8:00 AM, LakeForkFisherman said:

Am I expecting too much for a quality tub to last 20 years?

Absolutely not!  It all depends on what brand and product line you buy.  My Hotspring dealer takes trade-ins on older hotspring spas when customers upgrade, they told me typically a customer will trade in a spa after 8-10 years and they will swap out the jet-pumps/heater/filter before putting it on the showroom floor and re-selling it.   Last month when I inspected my Jetsetter before delivery they had a 2011 HS Prodigy for sale (around $6k I think), which looked in excellent condition.  The shell looked brand new, I was amazed.

My 2019 Hotspring Jetsetter has a full ABS basepan, fully plastic insulation and structural framing (made from recycled plastics which I appreciate).  There is literally no wood to rot away, or steel to rust away.   Heck my ceramic water filters are rated to last 4-8 years if maintained properly.    Given the age of other spas I've seen when well maintained, I have no doubt my spa will last for 20+ years (although I plan to trade it in for a larger spa in several years once I've finished rebuilding my backyard in several years haha).

And as others have mentioned WET TEST A SPA.  All spas from a same product line or class tend to feel the same, so if you're looking at a Hotspring Highlife spa, a wet-test in any size would be a good representation of the jets and seating (especially lounger shape) in all other spas in that collection.  

Also note not all jets are created equal - some brands stuff the spa full of jets to make it look awesome, but that simply adds more places for a leak to form, and it can reduce overall pressure of each jet.   Some brands try to use smaller jet sizes to compensate for lower water pressure, many people find this makes the skin itch.  So you really need to figure out what you do and don't like.  Personally I LOVE the MotoMassager DX on my Hotspring Highlife spa, but that's also another point of failure in the tub which doesn't matter to me, but might matter to others.  Also be sure to wet-test a lounger if you want one. Many people "float" out of loungers, you need to ensure you don't before investing in space for one.  Luckily for me I didn't float out of the lounger in my Highlife spa.

Ultimately since it's just me (and *sometimes* my wife) 99.99% of the time, there was no need for a larger spa (I read somewhere the average spa owner entertains guests in the spa no more than 3-4 times per year).  I opted to buy the best 3-seater luxury spa on the market and I'm very satisfied with my purchase (2019 Hotspring Jetsetter).  Ultimately I'm hoping to upgrade to the Envoy, but I needed to convince my wife a nice spa is worth the money first hahaha.

[Personal Poster]

I believe that wet testing is important.

Also, getting the right dealer is key.

I have had my Hydra-Spa for nineteen years. Still going strong, no leaks.

However, wet pumps have been replaced three times, air pump once, control box and heater 3 times. All of these parts were ordered on-line, and replaced by me.

Probably could have done it for less, but the local spa repair guys charges over $100 an hour, and  for $400  or so I can change out the control pac with heater. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Do remember that you may need access to panels to change out parts.

Also, I would have a newer spa, but the one I canceled recently required a crane to put into place, the dealer wouldn't pay for the crane so I bailed.

Twenty years later, I really like the spa I have, my wife loves it, we use it five or more days a week. I got interested in salt systems, but the way people on the forum are posting about them I may well have dodged a bullet.

It will require maintenance.

Mine is outside.  Spending higher dollars for a "best" cover works better for me than cheaper covers. I think mine is 5" in the center, sloping to 3" at the sides.

Take your best shot. Hope it works out for you as well as it has for me and  Cusser.

I'm hoping to get another ten years out of the spa, maybe more.

Do consider that you will have to perform maintenance

[Marco D]

On 10/14/2019 at 5:00 AM, LakeForkFisherman said:

Hello everyone.  My wife and I have been looking at hot tubs for a month and are near ready to make a decision. Never had a hot tub, but we have a pool.  We are in the Dallas, TX area, so plenty of choices of brands/dealers.  Available in our area- Aries, Bullfrog, Caldera, Cal Spas, Clearwater, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis, Sundance and several others.  We want QUALITY and expect this tub to last 15-20 years with proper care.  I have a few questions for you:

What brand is considered the highest quality?

What brand do you have?

Am I expecting too much for a quality tub to last 20 years?

 

Thank you.  I really appreciate your help.

I would talk with several Dealers to see who offers the best warranty for structure vs hardware components. http://cityspahottubs.com/

[Spayder]

Hello!

I've gone through this 3 months ago, so i couldn't pass by and not to give you my 2 cents. I bought SaluSpa AirJet. Don't be scared, yes, it's inflatable hot tub. To be fair, I hadn't known that they exist, until we bought one. For me it's good option, because it's compact, movable, lightweight. It was in the backyard, but now it moved to the house. Of course, there are disadvantages too. Inflated hot tubs are said to be not durable. I don't know is this true, but i suppose so. Anyway, for first 3 month everything is perfect. If you still unsure i'll leave this here. It helped me, maybe you'll find it useful too. I dunno which one is the best, as you see i'm not savvy in hot tubs, but we (me and my husband) satisfied with our one.

[north_of_boston]

On 12/13/2019 at 4:18 AM, Spayder said:

Hello!

I've gone through this 3 months ago, so i couldn't pass by and not to give you my 2 cents. I bought SaluSpa AirJet. Don't be scared, yes, it's inflatable hot tub. To be fair, I hadn't known that they exist, until we bought one. For me it's good option, because it's compact, movable, lightweight. It was in the backyard, but now it moved to the house. Of course, there are disadvantages too. Inflated hot tubs are said to be not durable. I don't know is this true, but i suppose so. Anyway, for first 3 month everything is perfect. If you still unsure i'll leave this here. It helped me, maybe you'll find it useful too. I dunno which one is the best, as you see i'm not savvy in hot tubs, but we (me and my husband) satisfied with our one.

If it does what you want - GREAT!   There is the portability factor if you want to bring it indoors and of course,  a durability factor,  but if it works for you - it works.

Having a large outdoor tub - it's stationary - but of course,  we do have the advantage of durability and we don't have that humidity inside the house.

THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE you have - cost.   Quite often some people spend $6-8-10K or more,  plus electrcian costs,  only to learn that they've bought into something they really don't want.  Quite often people buy them on a lark,  only to give up on it.

If you don't like the hot tub, or having one on a long-term,  enduring basis,  you really haven't lost much with a SaluSpa.   And you can always upgrade later,  if you're sure about it.