Need Help! Jacuzzi Vs. Elite Maax

[tjcarl]

Hi Folks,

First time hot tub buyer in Ottawa Canada, and my wife and I are driving each others nuts with the various selection and information overload.

We have narrowed our choice down to two (we think), the Jacuzzi 365 and the Elite Maax 5400, ironically both from Club Piscince.

We love the fact that Jacuzzi has been around forever BUT are scared by the shift to Mexico and the much more limited warranty they seem to offer. Why only ten years on structure when everyone else seems to offer a lifetime?

Really liked the Elite Maax but in reading a lot of forums and looking at some ratings site they do not seem very reliable in spite of the great warranty.

We want something that stands up to the harsh winters, is affordable and we will not have to worry about breaking down or a lot of servicing and obviously offers a great soak. All advice and recommendations are appreciated, even if it is to suggest another brand. We do have to stay under $10k all in. We did look at Arctic Spa and liked how rugged they are but just could not get what we wanted in our price range. Also looked at Artesian but did not see real value for money there compared to the two tubs listed above.

Thank you.

[Roger]

I would take Artisian over Maxx and Jacuzzi over both. Jacuzzi is as good a tub as Arctic, maybe better. Maxx is lower on the quality ladder than the 3 others.

[MileHghSpaGuy]

SpaGuru you are a veteran poster on this site, I am also a tech and sell used hot tubs. I am curious why you are saying Maax is less quality? I used to post on this forum years ago and would have agreed in the Coleman days thinking their insulation and framing was junk but now I think they are very much improved. I guess I am curious to what specific reasons you say the others are better? I prefer Balboa controls as do most service techs, Maax is the only one of the three with them, for a long time I recommended Arctic to people and I really think Maax and Arctic are on even playing field and think most would agree Arctic is just as good as anyother brand...do you think I am wrong in these assumptions?

[tjcarl]

I would actually love to hear from both of you (and other experts) on why you feel that way. Is it based on the quality of the massage? The overall reliability? The cost to operate?

I think as a first time buyer I just want something that I will not have to worry about breaking, will not cost me a fortune to maintain and that people will enjoy.

[Roger]

The inside of the Maxx are messy and poorly built. The metal frame is cheap and flimsy with the possibility of loose rivets and screws prevalent. The insulation is very skimpy and you end up with a noisy, expensive to operate tub. The seats are confining and the skirt panels are cheap and meet the upper lip of the tub sloppily.

Your right they are improved from the Coleman days. But improving on junk and you have mediocre.

To the OP. Don't be afraid to have your dealer open up the equipment bay on any tub your looking at. Grab a hold of a frame member and give it a pull. Push on the control panel and bang on a few things, kick the tires if you will. You will see how it is built.

[tjcarl]

Went in today and wet tested both of these models and was actually really surprised with how great the Elite Maax felt, it had way more jets than the Jacuzzi 365 and felt great, in fact one seat of the J-365 felt like it did not really even do anything, based purely on feel, the Maax actually felt better.

What was interesting was making them take the doors off the tubs, the Jacuzzi felt a lot more sturdy, little things like having 20 screws holding the sides on as opposed to the four that Maax put in, just felt like much more solid construction and was definitely a lot more insulated. And the Jacuzzi was definitely quieter.

Two more information points but not much closer to a decision unfortunately.

[Roger]

Good job on your investigation.

Which ever dealer gives you the warm and fuzzys could make your decision. A good dealer can make a bad tub a good tub.

[MileHghSpaGuy]

Rodger I am very confused...you are worried about steel framing rivets and not the staples that hold together wood framing? Maybe I just have more experience with older tubs then you...but have you not ever seen tubs (including jacuzzi) falling apart at the frame while trying to transport them? I have a jacuzzi at my shop from 99 i am rebuilding the frame on as the entire spa looks warped, same with a 2003 marquis and a late 90s cal.

Your post bashing Maax makes me think they are more of a direct competitor because I might not have more experience on this forum as you but I now know I have more real life experience and would drastically disagree. I am 6'0 220 and don't find the Maax uncomfortable or restrictive, maybe you just a much bigger guy then me. I'm going to end this conversation on the principal i don't think you have any real life experience with both products, no offense, not many people do. Me fixing and selling tubs used, as well as other things I dabble in just gives me more access to all the brands.

I am not saying jacuzzi is a bad product and not even saying Maax is better, but I am saying they are very similar in qualities and nothing I've seen from pumps, electronics, plumbing (why did jacuzzi remove all their gate valves btw? drives me nuts) shows me any differently. What jacuzzi has in aspects Maax makes up in others and vice versa.

Tj I am surprised the Maax was louder, I haven't noticed those being very loud...since their pumps are insulated and jacuzzi pumps are not that is surprising to me. You might ask the dealer if they put the insulation back in the spa after wiring? Rodger is right though...the wood is stronger then the steel...today. Just like foam is great...today....but neither last.

[Roger]

Rodger I am very confused...you are worried about steel framing rivets and not the staples that hold together wood framing? Maybe I just have more experience with older tubs then you...but have you not ever seen tubs (including jacuzzi) falling apart at the frame while trying to transport them? I have a jacuzzi at my shop from 99 i am rebuilding the frame on as the entire spa looks warped, same with a 2003 marquis and a late 90s cal.

Your post bashing Maax makes me think they are more of a direct competitor because I might not have more experience on this forum as you but I now know I have more real life experience and would drastically disagree. I am 6'0 220 and don't find the Maax uncomfortable or restrictive, maybe you just a much bigger guy then me. I'm going to end this conversation on the principal i don't think you have any real life experience with both products, no offense, not many people do. Me fixing and selling tubs used, as well as other things I dabble in just gives me more access to all the brands.

I am not saying jacuzzi is a bad product and not even saying Maax is better, but I am saying they are very similar in qualities and nothing I've seen from pumps, electronics, plumbing (why did jacuzzi remove all their gate valves btw? drives me nuts) shows me any differently. What jacuzzi has in aspects Maax makes up in others and vice versa.

Tj I am surprised the Maax was louder, I haven't noticed those being very loud...since their pumps are insulated and jacuzzi pumps are not that is surprising to me. You might ask the dealer if they put the insulation back in the spa after wiring? Rodger is right though...the wood is stronger then the steel...today. Just like foam is great...today....but neither last.

Your bashing wood because it's deteriorated after over 20 years?? How many 20 year old steel frames have you seen? I am on my third steel BBQ grill on the same wooden deck. I am taller than you by 4 inches and weight 10 lbs less, but it is not my complaint but customers of mine. Maybe you do have more real life experience. I have only worked on thousands of spas as a 30 year licensed plumber.

There's a difference between bashing a tub and relating my experience. I put them mediocre at best. I have disposed of 25 year old tubs with perfect foam and wood frames in them.

[MileHghSpaGuy]

I didn't say the tubs falling apart were 20 years old.

Your deck dries in the sun and with airflow and I am sure you seal it, the framing of tubs gets wet and stays wet....you should stop buying cheap grills.

As you mentioned before maybe Maax is ok for Halifax, Niagara Falls, Denver or 95% of the world...ill stop arguing with you, so if someone is looking in northern Minnesota go with something else because hot springs and d1 the only tubs that should be sold there apparently. People with "30 years experience" generally have hard times adjusting to new and improved technology...I remember when nature 2 came out and I was calling it voodoo.

[Roger]

I love new technology that works. But if it's just hype then no, your right.

The deck has never been touched.

[tjcarl]

Thank you guys, I really enjoyed the back and forth as it did not seem to get personal and it helped raise some excellent points for us to consider, it was like having a beer with a couple of guys with a ton of experience. Too bad we could not come up with a consensus

Being in Ottawa, it gets extremely cold and the snow does tend to pile up, so we do have to take that in to consideration, overall, I think what it comes down to is do we go with the old and faithful Jacuzzi tub or do we go with the young up and comer that has some more flash and sizzle for the dollar. The Elite 5400 just has a ton more jets and a little bit more room which is very attractive.

The one thing I did find out from my dealer to address an earlier concern I had was that the "Lifetime" warranty on the frame and insulation for the Maax is actually only 7 years once you get in to the fine print so Jacuzzi has it beat there as well.

Going in to buy this week so anyone else with some experience would love to hear it, maybe break the tie between Roger and MileHghSpaGuy

[Roger]

There's no tie. He sells Maxx so has his manufacturer to support. I could care less which brand you get and just don't think Maxx is one of the best brands out there based on my experience. In Northern Minnesota we are very frugal if you don't sell a hardy, efficient brand you don't last as a business. Jacuzzi has survived. So if those are your choices........

The quantity of jets means squat in how a tub feels. A poorly engineered tub with 75 jets will not compete with a properly engineered tub with 25. There are literally 100's of different styles of jets and 5 on one may not feel as good as 1 of another. There's only one way to tell how a tub feels and your doing that.

[MileHghSpaGuy]

Roger, he said he wet tested both and liked he Maax better...but since its so poorly engineered lets chalk that one upto luck?

I sell EVERY brand (I sold a Catalina today, hopefully a cal tomorrow and a sundance the next day), I work on EVERY brand...I dislike foam because EVERY tub leaks...when that happens your tub is pretty much ruined, all that insulation rodger loves is gone, and certain companies like Maax and arctic and bullfrog have made attempts to make that better...you just want to be the old timer who dismisses everything you don't understand....btw jacuzzi was horrible until they acquired sundance so lets not pretend they have stood this long test of time...before sundance they were a poorly made Home Depot tub. Jacuzzi got its name from the jetted bath industry and marketing.

I'm not sure about that 7 year thing in fine print...I know statue of limitations on certain things but was under impression it was for as long as owner owns spa.

Question to ask yourself...does this dealer trust this product in the backyards of its customers in your climate? Is the dealer reputable? Unless this is a fly by night company why would they sell you something they didnt feel would confidently stand up in your climate? Rodger and the people like him know what they know...they generally don't research they just act as if they are experts.

I said this before and ill say again....wet test and go with which one you like better....the tubs have identical warranties, they both large companies and i will vote for new technology and rodger votes for old...ill type this on my ipad and rodger probably responded by carrier pigeon.

Good luck, either way you go you'll be buying a quality product. I promise this the hardest part of having one...because when its all said and done, you'll sit back in that warm water, jets massaging and totally relaxed...you're not thinking about foam, framing,...just why didnt you do it sooner

[Apollo217]

"I dislike foam because EVERY tub leaks"

That is completely false. I'm not a hot spring, jacuzzi, caldera dealer by any means but I have seen a whole lot f tubs that are 15-20 years old that are full foam that have never leaked. Whether or not maax makes a good spa I have no idea what they are making nowadays because there isn't a dealer close by to me presently. I have seen some of their older tubs and wasn't impressed but it seems they have ade some improvements. For you to claim full foam tubs always leak is absurd

[MileHghSpaGuy]

"I dislike foam because EVERY tub leaks"

That is completely false. I'm not a hot spring, jacuzzi, caldera dealer by any means but I have seen a whole lot f tubs that are 15-20 years old that are full foam that have never leaked. Whether or not maax makes a good spa I have no idea what they are making nowadays because there isn't a dealer close by to me presently. I have seen some of their older tubs and wasn't impressed but it seems they have ade some improvements. For you to claim full foam tubs always leak is absurd

You're right...saying everyone was a poor use of words.

[Roger]

He is wrong about a lot of things in his last post. I think Arctic makes a fine tub. Overpriced and over hyped but they are close to getting the insulation conversion right. I think Maxx isn't even close to doing it right. New technology is one thing. Skimping on insulation and calling it new technology is another.

People who hype metal over wood and call it new technology are funny. Metal is not new technology it is very old technology and has no advantage in the construction industry other than a higher fire rating. If having a higher fire rating in a hot tub is important and considered new technology?? Take a 2x4 and put it in the swamp. Take a piece of 16 gauge channel and put it in the swamp and see which rots/rusts quicker. Hype my friend. Ra Ra Ra we use steel in our hot tubs because it's steel not wood. People need to understand that this steel is not an I Beam or channel iron or angle iron. This is thin gauge engineer steel stud material that is bendable with your fingers and designed to hold a load in one direction. Set one of each on the ground and stand on it. The wood won't move but you will crush the steel.

This is what you call new technology?

I'm not surprised you think every tub leaks selling the likes of Cal, Maxx, Arctic

Oh and by the way the Jacuzzi sold at Home Depot was made in a different factory and made to fit a price point specifically for Home Depot. I'm surprised a pro like you didn't know that?

And for the record as I said before there are better choices than Jacuzzi IMO. Just not Maxx or Cal. Maybe Arctic.

[MileHghSpaGuy]

I worked for a Sundance dealer at time Jacuzzi made acquisition so I know exactly what Jacuzzi was before Sundance, big box store crap. Once they moved into the Sundance plant they stopped making tubs, so the "separate factory" for home depot is wrong and I'm not surprised you are wrong about that.

Why are boats made of metal if wood is so superior? I don't think either of us know about swamps but I know the boats they put on them are metal...I also know that the metal framing in a Maax outdoes the 2x2 stapled together stuff you defending and if you visit behind almost any hot tub shop or warehouse my point proven.

[Apollo217]

Again you are wrong. Jacuzzi used to make gatsby that was sold at big box stores then a jacuzzi made for Home Depot and the jacuzzi premium line meant for specialty retailers

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I worked for a Sundance dealer at time Jacuzzi made acquisition so I know exactly what Jacuzzi was before Sundance, big box store crap. Once they moved into the Sundance plant they stopped making tubs, so the "separate factory" for home depot is wrong and I'm not surprised you are wrong about that.

Why are boats made of metal if wood is so superior? I don't think either of us know about swamps but I know the boats they put on them are metal...I also know that the metal framing in a Maax outdoes the 2x2 stapled together stuff you defending and if you visit behind almost any hot tub shop or warehouse my point proven.

So its wrong just because you say so? I didn't plan to take sides here and will admit I'm pretty much on Roger's side on most all of this back and forth after reading through it but hey, these are just opinions right? Anyway that story has been discussed here many times back in the years when those spas were out there and problematic. I believe we had Jacuzzi people back it up as truth at that time saying that Jacuzzi had contracted some factory in Florida to make spas under their name for Home Depot (or maybe we should say rebranded spas someone else was making). In fact they did not hold up well but it was a farmed out situation from what we knew so maybe it can be said they were Jacuzzi in name only but I am quite sure it did happen as he mentioned. Just because you weren't aware of it doesn't mean it was fabricated. I wouldn't stake my life on it but I have a good deal of faith that the story is true but I'll stop short of saying you're "wrong".

You might want to stick to merely disagreeing and avoid telling people they are flat wrong or that all foam spas leak because you say so or ...

[MileHghSpaGuy]

Gatsby Spas was making spas prior to Jacuzzi being made in the Sundance factory, when Jacuzzi went to dealer network they stopped making the big box store items...the reason this started was saying going with the company who's been doing it right for a long time...I was stating that they've been doing it right since moving into the Sundance facility not before.

[MileHghSpaGuy]

I quoted separate because that was a indication they were doing both at the same time while he was saying I was wrong. I visited the Sundance facility very soon after this was done and explained it by executives at the factory. But hey maybe I'm mistaken but I really don't think so.

[Roger]

I worked for a Sundance dealer at time Jacuzzi made acquisition so I know exactly what Jacuzzi was before Sundance, big box store crap. Once they moved into the Sundance plant they stopped making tubs, so the "separate factory" for home depot is wrong and I'm not surprised you are wrong about that.

Why are boats made of metal if wood is so superior? I don't think either of us know about swamps but I know the boats they put on them are metal...I also know that the metal framing in a Maax outdoes the 2x2 stapled together stuff you defending and if you visit behind almost any hot tub shop or warehouse my point proven.

So in your opinion all wood frame tubs have 2x2 framing?

[Roger]

I worked for a Sundance dealer at time Jacuzzi made acquisition so I know exactly what Jacuzzi was before Sundance, big box store crap. Once they moved into the Sundance plant they stopped making tubs, so the "separate factory" for home depot is wrong and I'm not surprised you are wrong about that.

Why are boats made of metal if wood is so superior? I don't think either of us know about swamps but I know the boats they put on them are metal...I also know that the metal framing in a Maax outdoes the 2x2 stapled together stuff you defending and if you visit behind almost any hot tub shop or warehouse my point proven.

So in your opinion all wood frame tubs have 2x2 framing?

I worked for a Sundance dealer at time Jacuzzi made acquisition so I know exactly what Jacuzzi was before Sundance, big box store crap. Once they moved into the Sundance plant they stopped making tubs, so the "separate factory" for home depot is wrong and I'm not surprised you are wrong about that.

Why are boats made of metal if wood is so superior? I don't think either of us know about swamps but I know the boats they put on them are metal...I also know that the metal framing in a Maax outdoes the 2x2 stapled together stuff you defending and if you visit behind almost any hot tub shop or warehouse my point proven.

I did not say wood was superior. I said Metal is not superior and nothing but hype. You need to get your facts straight.

Yes they did both at the same time but comparing the Home Depot sold tubs to the Jacuzzi Premium line is ridiculous. And wrong....still

[MileHghSpaGuy]

Cool...it's funny you say you're a plumber from northern Minnesota but you argue like you know the history of jacuzzi and your not actually selling tubs. I will double check with people who worked for them during merger for my own knowledge but who cares, i was saying they dont have this incredibly long track record of quality product. My point was they aren't far off in quality and I like newer technology in tubs. Having seen wood framing rot and fall apart I am under the opinion steel will last longer (which seeing steel framing is newer then wood that qualifies as newer technology then wood, just like bullfrog using plastic framing) and apparently you feel differently. I am also under the opinion spray foam is over hyped and companies like arctic and Maax are correct in finding efficient ways around it...again you disagree. Oh well...good luck tj. Again my advice from beginning is go with a reputable dealer, wet test when in doubt and if the dealer is willing to stake their reputation on the line it has probably preformed well enough to keep selling and hopefully getting referrals. Maybe if you have doubts about the Maax because people like rodger don't welcome anything new, ask for customer referrals and ask them what they think and their experiences.