TracyL50 Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 I have my master spa 7.2 set at 97. my husband and I will go into it within an hour and half it will reach 100 or more. we have gone in it during the day and at night when it was 50-60 degrees out. we have had the hot tub two months. They have replaced both pumps and the mother board and it still does it. is the normal for hot tubs. I would like to stay in my hot tub longer. sometimes it hits 100 with in 45 mins. then I have to get out its just to hot for me. I paid 10.000.00 for it that I can't spend more than hour in it. Master spa says its normal for the temp to go up because its so well insulated. I feel not by that much .. I need help this is brand new. and I need know does other brands do this? or does other masters spas do this. there solution was to put it down to 94-95 so I can stay in it longer. I feel that is to cold for me. and its not solving the problem. am I getting the run around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Heating this quickly with the cover OPEN cannot be the result of waste heat from the motors or frictional heat from the water going through the pipes, especially with ambient temps in the 50's and 60's. Either the heater relay is sticking closed with the pumps on or there is a fault in the heater or heater wiring. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 they just put a brand new mother board and two new pumps in it and it still does it. can you tell me where the heater relay is so I can look at and see what it is suppose to look like. thank you for you reply. we are new to owning a hot tub and they are giving us a hard time about it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Circuit boards made in the last few years usually incorporate enclosed relays, not open relays, and functionality must be checked with the appropriate meter. You probably cannot observe relay switching. Someone needs to check for the voltage being switched on and off at the appropriate time, proper wiring of the heater to the board, appropriate wiring between the relays, do a ground fault test of the heater with a megger, etc. In short, they need to stop sending the local idiot who apparently does not know what he is doing (other than simply swapping parts out) and send a real pro. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arches2 Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 If the water coming from the circulation piping is hotter than the ambient water then the heater is on. if it is not hotter (i'm sure you can feel when the heater is on yes?) then it could very well be from waste heat. The way master insulates there isn't much between the pumps and the water. First verify if the heater is on just using a feel test. Where are you and what is the outdoor air temp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 I live in NY and right now the temp outside is about 70. I do understand when its hot out the water temp will go up on its own. but when its 60 out and at night and no sun the water temp goes from 97 to 100 with 45 mins to an hour. ok I just did a test the temp went up one degree within 15 mins and the heater isn't hot I let it run for 30 mins. but the pumps are so hot you can't touch them.im trying to load a photo but I don't know how.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arches2 Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 I live in NY and right now the temp outside is about 70. I do understand when its hot out the water temp will go up on its own. but when its 60 out and at night and no sun the water temp goes from 97 to 100 with 45 mins to an hour. ok I just did a test the temp went up one degree within 15 mins and the heater isn't hot I let it run for 30 mins. but the pumps are so hot you can't touch them.im trying to load a photo but I don't know how.. the pumps will be that hot. That's normal. What i meant by heater, is can you feel hot water (hotter than your tub water) entering from the circulation (low speed) "jet". Then when you turn on the heater (so it displays that it is on on the panel) / Crank it to max, do you feel a temperature change in that low speed circuit. In my tub it's obvious when the heater is actually heating vs just circulating from my low speed "jet". It is possible that the pumps can put that much heat into the water from just waste heat especially if the air intakes are on and you are pumping that heat right into the water. My tub will heat up faster with the air on if the jets have been blasting away for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 I live in NY and right now the temp outside is about 70. I do understand when its hot out the water temp will go up on its own. but when its 60 out and at night and no sun the water temp goes from 97 to 100 with 45 mins to an hour. ok I just did a test the temp went up one degree within 15 mins and the heater isn't hot I let it run for 30 mins. but the pumps are so hot you can't touch them.im trying to load a photo but I don't know how.. the pumps will be that hot. That's normal. What i meant by heater, is can you feel hot water (hotter than your tub water) entering from the circulation (low speed) "jet". Then when you turn on the heater (so it displays that it is on on the panel) / Crank it to max, do you feel a temperature change in that low speed circuit. In my tub it's obvious when the heater is actually heating vs just circulating from my low speed "jet". It is possible that the pumps can put that much heat into the water from just waste heat especially if the air intakes are on and you are pumping that heat right into the water. My tub will heat up faster with the air on if the jets have been blasting away for a while. It's not possible for waste heat to do this with the cover open as she stated in an earlier post. With cover on, yes. Cover off, no. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 If there is that much heat coming off the pumps they will likely not last long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 It is possible for waste heat to do this, in a small spa, with two big 5hp pumps. Leisure bay had a 250 gallon tub with two 5hp pumps. It would shoot up 3 degrees in an hour. However, it was 85-90 degrees outside, not 70. How many gallons is the tub? You can easily tell if it's the heater simply by putting an amp-clamp on the heater circuit. Replacing circuit boards and jet pumps certainly isn't fixing what isn't broken... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 It is possible for waste heat to do this, in a small spa, with two big 5hp pumps. Leisure bay had a 250 gallon tub with two 5hp pumps. It would shoot up 3 degrees in an hour. However, it was 85-90 degrees outside, not 70. How many gallons is the tub? You can easily tell if it's the heater simply by putting an amp-clamp on the heater circuit. Replacing circuit boards and jet pumps certainly isn't fixing what isn't broken... Again, she reported in her original post that this was happening at night with the cover open, the tub occupied and ambient temps in the 50's to 60's. Her issue is NOT waste heat. I agree someone with electrical troubleshooting ability needs to look at her tub, as the people that Master has sent thus far appear to be clowns. If she was reporting consistent ambient temps in the 90's or more, then I'd be inclined to take a look at waste heat as a contributing factor as well. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I live in NY and right now the temp outside is about 70. I do understand when its hot out the water temp will go up on its own. but when its 60 out and at night and no sun the water temp goes from 97 to 100 with 45 mins to an hour. ok I just did a test the temp went up one degree within 15 mins and the heater isn't hot I let it run for 30 mins. but the pumps are so hot you can't touch them.im trying to load a photo but I don't know how.. the pumps will be that hot. That's normal. What i meant by heater, is can you feel hot water (hotter than your tub water) entering from the circulation (low speed) "jet". Then when you turn on the heater (so it displays that it is on on the panel) / Crank it to max, do you feel a temperature change in that low speed circuit. In my tub it's obvious when the heater is actually heating vs just circulating from my low speed "jet". It is possible that the pumps can put that much heat into the water from just waste heat especially if the air intakes are on and you are pumping that heat right into the water. My tub will heat up faster with the air on if the jets have been blasting away for a while. I did what you said and crank it to the max and the temperature the change it got warm coming out. the guy is coming today to change the panel and put some more vents in but I know that's not going to work.. im hoping they wont give me a hard time for a refund..and ill go with another hot tub. is there any other tubs that does not do this? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 If there is that much heat coming off the pumps they will likely not last long. they already had to replace a pump because it started leaking within of 1 and half of owning the hot tub. so I know its not going to last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 If there is that much heat coming off the pumps they will likely not last long. they already had to replace a pump because it started leaking within of 1 and half of owning the hot tub. so I know its not going to last. It is possible for waste heat to do this, in a small spa, with two big 5hp pumps. Leisure bay had a 250 gallon tub with two 5hp pumps. It would shoot up 3 degrees in an hour. However, it was 85-90 degrees outside, not 70. How many gallons is the tub? You can easily tell if it's the heater simply by putting an amp-clamp on the heater circuit. Replacing circuit boards and jet pumps certainly isn't fixing what isn't broken... Again, she reported in her original post that this was happening at night with the cover open, the tub occupied and ambient temps in the 50's to 60's. Her issue is NOT waste heat. I agree someone with electrical troubleshooting ability needs to look at her tub, as the people that Master has sent thus far appear to be clowns. If she was reporting consistent ambient temps in the 90's or more, then I'd be inclined to take a look at waste heat as a contributing factor as well. John I know changing everything isn't going to fix it. but they are going to try everything before I fight for a refund. I was in the hot tub last night it was 63 outside and I had it set at 96 and in 45 mins it went up to 99. I got out at that time if I stayed in it longer it would keep going up. they told me I should not run the pump that long. I said whats the point of owning one if I cant stay in it longer than 30 mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I live in NY and right now the temp outside is about 70. I do understand when its hot out the water temp will go up on its own. but when its 60 out and at night and no sun the water temp goes from 97 to 100 with 45 mins to an hour. ok I just did a test the temp went up one degree within 15 mins and the heater isn't hot I let it run for 30 mins. but the pumps are so hot you can't touch them.im trying to load a photo but I don't know how.. the pumps will be that hot. That's normal. What i meant by heater, is can you feel hot water (hotter than your tub water) entering from the circulation (low speed) "jet". Then when you turn on the heater (so it displays that it is on on the panel) / Crank it to max, do you feel a temperature change in that low speed circuit. In my tub it's obvious when the heater is actually heating vs just circulating from my low speed "jet". It is possible that the pumps can put that much heat into the water from just waste heat especially if the air intakes are on and you are pumping that heat right into the water. My tub will heat up faster with the air on if the jets have been blasting away for a while. we turned off the air so the pumps are only pumping out water and it heated up faster. so I guess there isn't no hope. its a shame its a great tub. but I know they will fight me for a refund. and then I have to find another hot tub.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Find one with smaller pumps. Your battle is with physics, friction, and surface area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Find one that is not made by the same manufacturer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Find one that is not made by the same manufacturer. I will if they will give me a refund I think they are going to fight me on a refund. they may offer me another model first. and I think all the pumps are the 6mps (if that's what you call them) I know most tubs have 2.4 im being told... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 6 amps at 230 volts is fairly tame and equals about 1 horsepower or so. They cannot be talking an honest 6 horsepower. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Your first post says 3 degrees within an hour and a half.....2 high hp pumps can definitely do that in an hour and a half....check the voltage too....if its low the pumps will get even hotter. We hook pool pumps up to a 50 gallon vessel to test them and the water can go from 70 degrees to 110 degrees in a few hours just from the pump running with no heater involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 6 amps at 230 volts is fairly tame and equals about 1 horsepower or so. They cannot be talking an honest 6 horsepower. John I really don't know much about the pumps we are new to owning a hot tub. I do know tonight it was 61 outside tonight . I had the tub set at 97 and an hour and fifteen mins it was up to 100 and the heater wasn't up. so im going to ask for a refund I know they are going to give me a hard time. do know the pumps are 6 and I think most pumps are 2.4 so I think im going to look for a tub with smaller pumps.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Your first post says 3 degrees within an hour and a half.....2 high hp pumps can definitely do that in an hour and a half....check the voltage too....if its low the pumps will get even hotter. We hook pool pumps up to a 50 gallon vessel to test them and the water can go from 70 degrees to 110 degrees in a few hours just from the pump running with no heater involved. I ran it tonight it was 61 outside the tub was set at 97 an hour and fifteen later it was up to 100. and the heater didn't come on. the voltage we had installed it what they said to do and it passed inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 wish me luck I'm going to ask for a refund. I know I might have a fight ahead of me. they may offer me another model, but I'm afraid it will do the same thing. I will assume they are all made the same inside. but I may have no choice to try another model if they offer. If they wont do anything then ill have to take them to court. If they do give me a refund there is another dealer a hour away from me that sells elite maxx, spas any input on those tubs. they look like they a great tubs.. I'm a little scared now to buy one .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 well my up date is Master spa says there is nothing wrong with my tub. they said I should use the jets for 15 mins then let them set for 5-10 mins and then turn them back on. or I should set my temp at 92, or put cold water in it when it gets hot. so to them its normal for my brand new twilight 7.2 go from 96 degrees to 100 degrees in an hour of use without heater on, and this is at night when its cool out and no sun. my advice is to stay away from master spa they do not honor their warranty now I have to get a lawyer and go after the place I bought it.. ive only had the damn twilight since May and its been hell.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyL50 Posted August 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 I almost hate to say we (the Pro's) told you so, but this board is replete with the evidence. Master does not properly support their customers and they are getting worse, not better. Meanwhile, I am going out on another Master tomorrow to make money from another unsupported customer being left stranded. John there isn't many local dealers here where I live that is why I went with master spa. the dealer had a god rep. so I will see how good they are. the next dealer that is an hour away is maax so I liked the ES model but I cant find to much about them online. so when and if I get my money back I may go with that. but I'm not sure yet.. so ill keep looking around. I want to buy from a local dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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