Dispute Between Electrician And Inspector Re: Hot Tub Wiring

[ht2020]

I'm Installing a 240Vspa and doing it with a permit. Concrete pad has been built and conduit trench dug from main electrical panel to the spa. The spa subpanel is adjacent to main panel. Inspector came out to inspect the trench and said that it was OK but that I must "Provide electrical GFCI outlet near spa". When I asked what "near" meant, he said that it didn't matter how close it was to the spa. My electrician was horrified at this and said he couldn't understand why he was being forced to provide this outlet. He pointed out that it's easy enough to run another wire through the conduit but he was against placing it right near the spa. He insisted the outlet should be at least 10 feet away from the spa and this would mean that he would need to dig another 10 foot trench (along the side of the yard where the spa is) with an additional cost of $500. I put him on the phone with the inspector and the inspector verified that the outlet could be right near the spa; in fact, at the exact spot that the conduit emerges on the side of the spa. The electrician ultimately complied but told me that it was dangerous to have a GFCI outlet so near to the water and that he had never heard of such stupidity. Who is right here? Is there a danger to having the outlet there? How could there be such a difference of opinon between these two. I'm happy to have an outlet near the spa in case I want to use a radio or light, but I'm a little hesitant after being scared by the electrician.

[Dr. Spa]

The inspector is incorrect. Here are the codes in question;

680.22 (A) (3)
One 15A or 20A, 125V receptacle must be located not less than 6 ft and not more than 20 ft from the inside walls of a permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub. This receptacle must be located not more than 6½ ft above the floor, platform, or grade level serving the permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub.

680.22 (A) (4)
All 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles located within 20 ft from the inside walls of a permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub must be GFCI protected.

So, an outlet, GFCI protected, IS required, BUT, it has to be at least 6' and no more than 20' from the spa. You may possibly be able to use the power off an existing outlet in the house, and install a GFCI outlet opposite it on the exterior side of the wall.

[Water Boy]

The inspector is incorrect. Here are the codes in question;

680.22 (A) (3)

One 15A or 20A, 125V receptacle must be located not less than 6 ft and not more than 20 ft from the inside walls of a permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub. This receptacle must be located not more than 6½ ft above the floor, platform, or grade level serving the permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub.

680.22 (A) (4)

All 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles located within 20 ft from the inside walls of a permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub must be GFCI protected.

So, an outlet, GFCI protected, IS required, BUT, it has to be at least 6' and no more than 20' from the spa. You may possibly be able to use the power off an existing outlet in the house, and install a GFCI outlet opposite it on the exterior side of the wall.

Interesting. I have always heard that a outlet cant be within 6 feet, but I have never heard that part of them being required.... What is the reasoning for why a outlet would be required past 6 feet but no farther then 20 when there is a pool or spa there??

[Dr. Spa]

It's assumed someone will at some point plug in something like a radio...and stupidly have it positioned where it can fall into the spa. 6' puts the outlet far enough from the water so as to not to not be an electrocution hazard (remember, even if the GFCI trips, there's still live voltage going to the outlet itself...and at 6' someone cant be in the spa and reach out to either plug something in or reset the GFCI), and 20' puts it close enough that someone wont use an extension cord on a non-GFCI protected outlet.

[ht2020]

The inspector is incorrect. Here are the codes in question;

680.22 (A) (3)

One 15A or 20A, 125V receptacle must be located not less than 6 ft and not more than 20 ft from the inside walls of a permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub. This receptacle must be located not more than 6½ ft above the floor, platform, or grade level serving the permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub.

680.22 (A) (4)

All 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles located within 20 ft from the inside walls of a permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub must be GFCI protected.

So, an outlet, GFCI protected, IS required, BUT, it has to be at least 6' and no more than 20' from the spa. You may possibly be able to use the power off an existing outlet in the house, and install a GFCI outlet opposite it on the exterior side of the wall.

Interesting. I have always heard that a outlet cant be within 6 feet, but I have never heard that part of them being required.... What is the reasoning for why a outlet would be required past 6 feet but no farther then 20 when there is a pool or spa there??

This is not "permanently installed". This is a portable hot tub. I think the permanently in the sentence included pool, outdoor spa or outdoor hot tub. Therefore, this section of the code seems irrelevant.

[Dr. Spa]

Grammatically, it says.... permanently installed pool or outdoor spa or outdoor hot tub. If there was a comma after installed, it would read differently.

FYI, this could possibly be argued forever, BUT, this is a prime example of how codes might be interpreted and enforced.

[ht2020]

Well, if this is the case it would imply that not only do you have to dig a trench from the main panel to the spa but you have to dig a separate 10 foot trench from the spa to the outlet. I'm not sure what it costs in different parts of the country but here in So.Cal trenching for 10 feet can add hundreds of dollars to the final bill. A totally useless provision especially if you have no need for an outlet at all. Personally I intend to turn the breaker off and not to even use it.

[n1oty]

I wouldn't use it. Your inspector is retarded.

[Spanky]

This is a very common code requirement and is easy to comply with. Code also requires a "Spa" pannel or similar disconnect within sight of the spa. I use a Semens Spa pannel which has additional space for 2 15amp circuits. Just install a 15A breaker and a few feet of conduit with a box and a CGFI outlet ....Problem solved... And YES it does come in handy when draining the tub, it gives you a handy place to plug a submersable pump into.

[njmurvin]

That's my understanding as well with regard to the disconnect. It must be within line of sight to a technician working on the electrical equipment to prevent someone from switching the electricity back on at the panel without the technician's knowledge. As for the outlet, it is pretty obvious you shouldn't have one within reach of the hot tub (safe distance about 6'). It is interesting that, in bathrooms and kitchens where there are water sources, this doesn't seem to apply as long as you use GFI outlets.

[Dr. Spa]

There's a balance between what can be assumed people will do, and what can be done to make it as safe as possible. It's unlikely somoene will be sitting in their spa with a hair drier, as is someone setting a portable radio on the edge of their bath tub.

[Spanky]

There's another reason why it must be "Within Sight" and that is the fact that the disconnect also serves as the Emergency shut off.

I my case I meet both requirements by using the Siemens Spa panel mounted on the wall about 12' from the edge of the spa. Certainly not reachable from within the tub, but easily reachable in an emergency. The secondary 15A circuit is fed to a CGFI outlet box which is just over 8' from the tub. (Not less than 6' and not more than 20', just as Dr.Spa posted) If the inspector asked for the outlet to be less than 6' from the tub then I'd say that inspector doesn't know the proper codes for spa installations

Again with a little thought it is easy to comply with both requirements.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding the original post when he says the "Spa" panel is mounted next to the Main Panel. If it, or another suitable disconnect is not within plain sight from the tub, then it"s NOT code compliant. If this is the case and the inspector "Passed" this then again He's not familiar with the code requirements.

[ht2020]

Thanks for all the input. The situation at present is that the GFCI 110V outlet is about 2 feet away from the spa (directly at the conduit junction where the 230V wires came out. If I don't use any appliances near the spa while I'm in it can I assume that I will be safe? For example, I may plug in a radio or a lamp into that outlet but those applicance would certainly be 5-6 feet away from the spa. Is there any danger if water accidentally splashes onto that outlet? For example, if one of my kids is splashing around in the spa and water hits the 110 V outlet, is that dangerous? Even in the worse case scenario, if one drops the applicance in the tub isn't' there protection secondary to the GFCI nature of the outlet? After all, I'm sure there are plenty of idiots who use an extension cord and put their radios or lamps on the edge of the tub anyway. Those people are probably in as much danger whether the outlet is 2 feet or 6 feet away? Alternatively, I could simply turn that outlet off by shutting down its 20 amp breaker in the subpanel and only use it when I'm draining the tub with a sump pump. My final alternative is to hire another electrician to conduit it another 4-5 feet away from the tub. The only advantage of doing that is that water will not splash on it from the tub (not sure if that matters either way since its GFCI).

[Spanky]

I really don't know what to tell you here, Obviously the Inspector instructed you to place the outlet in a location that is in violation of NEC code. That's a new one for me!!!

In all fairness the outlet should be moved to code compliance at the electrical authority's expense (Good luck with that one!!!)

In the meantime I'd keep the breaker off and turn it on only when needed. I mentioned that the Number 1 use for mine is a place to plug my submersible pump when draining the tub. God knows what can happen if water splashed directly on the outlet, so I'd keep the power off.

I'm still curious about your Spa Panel location, and whether or not the Inspector goofed on that one too!!

[Dr. Spa]

YES IT MATTERS! Even if the GFCI trips, there's still LIVE voltage feeding it. And as your kids get older........sitting in the spa and reaching out to plug in a radio, or reset the GFCI...........ZAP.

[Spanky]

The more I think about this one, the more I feel that Dr.Spa is 100% "On the Money"... The 6' minimum code exists for a very good reason. Even shutting down the breaker is not a viable solution,

a) you may turn it on to drain the tub (like I do) then forget to turn it back off

Older kids will want their "Tunes" and will have no problem locating and turning the breaker on

For piece of mind, I'd move it but I wouldn't blame you if you hired a Lawyer to recover the costs

[ht2020]

YES IT MATTERS! Even if the GFCI trips, there's still LIVE voltage feeding it. And as your kids get older........sitting in the spa and reaching out to plug in a radio, or reset the GFCI...........ZAP.

Not sure I understand what you mean. If there are no appliances anywhere near the tub (and there won't be) what's the issue? Furthermore, even if somebody used an extension cord and dropped the radio into the tub wouldn't there be the same consequences? My question is whether or not the proximity to water splashing is somehow dangerous to the occupants in the tub. After all, even if water splashes on the outlet it's not as if the outlet is connected somehow to the tub (unless electricity arcs backwards into the tub).

[njmurvin]

You can always put a water resistant cover from Home Depot on the outlet to prevent the splashes from causing a short at the outlet, itself. I actually have one on mine. BTW, I have my low voltage lights and a sprinkler timer plugged into my outlet (but it's not reachable by anyone in the spa).

I believe that the folks above (and I agree), that it is a potential liability to anyone using your spa to have an outlet within reach. You may never have an issue. But, if you do, I'm sure you'll wish you had spent the extra couple hundred bucks to move it to a safer location.