Leak In Bengal Spa... What To Do?

[bison]

Hi - I have a roughly 13 year old Tiger River Bengal spa that is leaking and I'm trying to decide what to do. The leak was moderate, perhaps 1/2 an inch or so a day. Unfortunately the spa is mounted on a hillside so that only the front panel is accessable, all three other sides have retaining walls that prevent access.

The leak is not in the equipment area, it's bone dry. It's also not from the two drains below the equipment area. I have let it drain down to see the level of the lean and thus far the water is down to only 3 inches deep or so, meaning that the leak is either at the bottom drain or the intake that's just off the bottom (the one covered by a cloth filter). Right now the water level is at the bottom of the side intake, but it may still be leaking. I'll know soon if it leaks below that level.

So with the leak either at the very bottom or near that, what do I do? Neither of the two areas appear to be loose from the inside. Clearly I'll have to pull the tub out somehow to get underneath, but I have no idea what to expect or to look for. I presume it's full of foam that will need to be cut away.

I'd appreciate any tips, including diagnosis, repair, and simple tricks on how to get the tub open so I can get to it. I don't even know how/if the side panels come off.

Is this spa worth saving? I'd hate to fix the leak if this is a symptom of bigger problems.

Thanks!

[Spa_Guru]

Repairs of this type are quite difficult, and many spas around the 12 year old mark start to lose integrity in glue joints, suffer from pvc shrinkage and brittleness - especially with ozone equipped spas.

I'm not sure I would bother to fix this tub if it was already on my shop floor, let alone in the location you mention.

There are two ways to get to the leak, one would be to start by removing all the sides and looking for wet foam, and since the spa panels are probably all stapled on, it would be faster to cut about 4" from all edges of the sides out about 1" deep with a skil saw and convert the rectangle you cut into an access door. Once you have done that, dig dig dig.... this is the way least likely to create additional leaks in an older spa while looking for the one(s) you have.

Second option is to block up the spa high enough to get underneath, or tip it up on it's side and dig out the wet foam and follow it to the leak. I usually block them up carefully and evenly (all four corners and the center base) so I can put water in it to make certain it is not leaking any more.

Under the most ideal conditions this is likely to be a several day project, good luck.

[Dr. Spa]

"Unfortunately the spa is mounted on a hillside so that only the front panel is accessable, all three other sides have retaining walls that prevent access."

[Spa_Guru]

[Spa_Guru]

What you are going to attempt is nuts, so let's make that clear.

But if you insist, here goes.

Drain the tub, and disconnect the power.

Using the above diagram, get the spa pried up, and as you do, place ever-increasingly large blocks under the spa.

The spa is going to weigh probably 1500+ lbs due to saturated foam, and simply jacking it up may destroy the frame and/or shell, as well as create a dozen new leaks.

I use a three cinder block high method, with six in the center, and three at each corner, with Watkins products like yours, you may want to also block it halfway along each side as a precaution.

Oh, make certain you only do this on smooth level concrete, because if you screw this up, you are going to die.

[Spa_Guru]

Once the tub is up and blocked, refill it.

Look for the leak.

Dig to it.

Drain the spa.

Fix it.

Refill the spa.

Check for success. (or failure) if you have succeeded...

Drain the spa again, and carefully lower it reversing the jacking procedure.

If there are new leaks, repeat entire procedure.

[bison]

Thanks Guru - With the understanding that this is nuts, what's the alternative? Only two I can think of is 1) live with the leak, and 2) get a new tub. Any reasonable #3?

thx -

BB

[Spa_Guru]

The best idea is to disconnect the power and put it on craigslist for free.... and stand back. People will gladly come to your home and take it away, saving you the hassle.

Then go shop for a tub.

I, of course, for the often stated reasons, am a Marquis fan - however, be aware you will need to re-do your wiring to put anything but a Watkins product in if you have the multi-breaker system.

[bison]

That is sounding a lot more attractive of an option the more I think about trying to fix it. That or just continuing to add water till it gets worse.

I haven't seen your reasoning for Marquis and would like to as I have no idea which brands are better than others.

Thx

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Its 13 years old so its seen some use but that doesn't mean its a lost cause, I'd dig it out and see. It might be a simple fix, it might not. There is only one way to find out and nothing to lose since you'd have to get it out one way or another and if you get another you'd have to move it in. If you replace it there is no "best" spa but i'd look at Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance. Give the fix a try first, everyone is apprehensive toward this kind of fix until they try it.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

I know the light lens is pretty low in those older bengals....is it below that? If not, take the stainless light shield out from the motor compartment and look at the light lens to see if it is leaking. Even though it is accessible through the motor compartment, it has a small gap where the water will leak down into the foam and not into the motor compartment.

[bison]

Thanks. Dan, the leak is lower than that, the water has stopped with the level even with the bottom of the screened side inlet that's maybe 6" from the bottom.

[Spa_Guru]

Your biggest hassle with fixing it is going to be the lack of structural integrity -- spas with a bunch of soaked foam in them are typically hundreds of pounds heavier than they should be. If you spa was accessable from all sides, I'd say go in thru the sides and have at it, but no matter what, you have to start by moving it, very problematic.

[bison]

Well got step one done - it's up in the air! Thanks to Guru's tips and a bit of mechanical advantage from two automotive jacks the tub is now three cinder blocks high. Got some water in it and will start to dig into it tomorrow. This gives me access from both the bottom and sides - i think that since the leak appears to be at one of the bottom inlets I'll try going in from the bottom first. Bet that's going to be fun....

[Spa_Guru]

Use a screwdriver as a probe, when you poke in and get a stream, you are close.

[bison]

OK I found it - what a pain to dig thru that foam, especially getting thru the toffee-colored outer layer! The leak is at a junction where a roughly 1 1/2" hose connects into a PVC fitting. Is the best way to fix this to simply slop a bunch of epoxy around the fitting? I've seen Plast-Aid mentioned as good stuff to use to do so.

[Spa_Guru]

You should have better than average success when you use something like Devcon Plasti-weld on a suction fitting, or a cuirc pump line. The less pressure in the pipe, the higher the liklihood of success.

http://www.eddyline.com/store/images/web%20Decvon%20Plastic%20Welder%2025%20ml.jpg

Sand all of the foam off for 1" all the way around the affected junction, cut a piece of cloth (not tericloth or corduroy) 2" wide and long enough to wrap around the pipe 1-1/2 times, and get three zip ties long enough to go around the pipe.

Mix the plastic weld and apply it to the cloth, and immediately wrap the cloth around the joint and zip tie it like in this drawing;

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa477/Spa_Guru/repair.png

[bison]

It's looking good! Got some Plast-aid, cleaned the fitting, and applied as Spa_guru recommended above. Gave it 30 mins to set, added water, and no leak! Now I just need to get some of the instant foam from Home Depot to fill the area I'd dug out, then lower the tub back down without killing myself or breaking anything. Will try that this weekend.

[bison]

Finished and working! I had to re-apply the Plast-aid as I'd missed a spot on the fitting and there was a minor leak. With that sealed, I tried to apply some spray foam and failed miserably. Some stuck but most of it just wouldn't stick and fell off. I figured it's not a big deal to have a little bit of pipe uninsulated so didn't try anything else. Got the tub back down on the cement pad but it was about 10" further out than I wanted it. Couldn't shove it by myself so I gave it some thought and ended up making some rollers from a piece of 1" dowel I had in the garage. Jacked up the tub, put 3 or 4 of the rollers under each side, and it moved easy as can be! Must be how they built the pyramids...

It's heating now and will hopefully last a few more years. Thanks everyone, especially Spa_Guru, for the tips and advice. Hopefully not something I have to do again!

[Hot Spring Ace]

Finished and working! I had to re-apply the Plast-aid as I'd missed a spot on the fitting and there was a minor leak. With that sealed, I tried to apply some spray foam and failed miserably. Some stuck but most of it just wouldn't stick and fell off. I figured it's not a big deal to have a little bit of pipe uninsulated so didn't try anything else. Got the tub back down on the cement pad but it was about 10" further out than I wanted it. Couldn't shove it by myself so I gave it some thought and ended up making some rollers from a piece of 1" dowel I had in the garage. Jacked up the tub, put 3 or 4 of the rollers under each side, and it moved easy as can be! Must be how they built the pyramids...

It's heating now and will hopefully last a few more years. Thanks everyone, especially Spa_Guru, for the tips and advice. Hopefully not something I have to do again!

Well done. I know a repair like this can seem like a dauting task when you've never done it before but now you're a seasoned veteran so the next ime someone is ready to throw in the towel and just put it on Craigslist for free you can chime in and help convince them to give it a shot.

[Spa_Guru]

You just managed a repair that is considered quite daunting by anyone who has done it, great job!