Orion6192 Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Just curious... My J345 is coming next week and I will be using chlorine and the UV. Doe the ProClear mineral sticks help maintain the water? Thanks... Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Just curious... My J345 is coming next week and I will be using chlorine and the UV. Doe the ProClear mineral sticks help maintain the water? Thanks... Scott I find that a mineral stick, no matter what brand, will help maintain clear water when you are not using the tub. In other words extend the length of time between chlorine additions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 The mineral stick does not do much if you are sanitizing with chlorine only since it does not allow lower FC levels. If you use MPS with the weekly chlorine shock and maintain the MPS residual in the water then your sanitizer is not chlorine but is silver/MPS potentiated by the elevated spa water temps. If you are not adding MPS after each soak you need to maintain exactly the same chlorine levels with the stick as without and it will not allow you to go longer without chlorine in the water. The UV really does nothing. UV has ho residual effect and the only sanitation that takes place is in the water directly exposed to the UV. As an analogy say you have a 300 gallon drum of water (the tub) and you sanitize pint of it and return it to the tub and keep taking out a pint, sanitizing it, and then returning it to the tub and lets say that in the main tub you were constantly introducing sweat, urine, feces, and bacteria. Do you think the water will ever be sanitized Well, I just descrbed what the UV is doing in your hot tub and described exactly what every bather introduces no matter how clean they think they are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6192 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 What is MPS? Is this a better way to go than just using Chlorine? I do not want to go the Bromine rout. 1st tub, live in NY, winter is coming. Looking to maintain a stable water balance. I bought the Taylor K2006 test kit. Thoughts? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ja4496 Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 I'm new also and haven't had any problems with the nature 2 system. Just test the water before use and if mps is low add about 1.5 tablespoons for a 375 gal tub and add that much every time you get out for the night. Once or twice a week you add 3.5 tablespoons of dichlor shock depending on how much you use it. Like I said I'm new to this too but so far its not been hard for my wife and I yo maintain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6192 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 So the Nature 2 systems is simply the mineral stick in the filter, MPS when needed and dichlor (which is chlorine correct?) shock once or twice a week? Seems too simple almost. Is there something I'm missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6192 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 My Jacuzzi J345 comes with these starter chemicals: Ph Up Ph Down Total Alkalinity Increase Chlorinating Concentrate Foam Out Clarifier Test Strips All SpaGuard Brand... Should there not be a Total Alalinity decrease as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 The 'mineral stick" adds silver via silver nitrate impregnated ceramic beads. You sanitizer is silver and MPS (potassium monopersulfate), not the chlorine added on startup and then weekly (or more if needed) . MPS is 'non chlorine shock". By itself MPS is NOT a sanitizer but when catalyzed by silver ions at hot water temperatures such as found in spas it becomes one. Silver is also a sanitizer but is way too slow acting on its own to be useful as a spa sanitizer. The chlorine is used to remove biofilm from the ceramic beads so they continue to release silver into the water and to provide some additional sanitation so the silver?MPS can "keep up" . If you decide to use only chlorine you do not need the 'mineral stick' as it really does nothing on it's own and you will be running a chlorine spa with normal and not reduced chlorine levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ja4496 Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 So the Nature 2 systems is simply the mineral stick in the filter, MPS when needed and dichlor (which is chlorine correct?) shock once or twice a week? Seems too simple almost. Is there something I'm missing? Pretty much spot on. You maintain a residual of MPS in the water at all times and shock it to keep the water clear. You still.have to maintain your water balance with ph up/down, ta increaser, stain and scale remover but I haven't had any issues yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 My Jacuzzi J345 comes with these starter chemicals: Ph Up--this is sodium carbonate. You might know this as Washing Soda from the Laundry Aisle at the grocery store. It is also called soda ash and sal soda. There is no difference between the pH up and Washing Soda. Borax (20 mule team from the laundry aisle is a better pH increaser since it has much less impact on TA while sodium carbonate usuallyc causes TA to rise higher than you want it! You used borax at twice the amount BY WEIGHT of sodium carbonate called for. (And yes, borax IS sold for spa use...Proteam Gentle Spa is borax and boric acid). Ph Down--this is sodium bisulfate or dry acid. When mixed with water it forms sulfufic acid. It is used to lower BOTH pH and TA. pH moves MUCH faster than TA. Lowering TA is a process. Total Alkalinity Increase--This is sodium hydrogen carbonate AKA sodium bicarbonate AKA baking soda! Yep, it's plain old oridnary baking soda that you can buy at the grocery for about $50/lb or less! AT the pool/spa supply this is usually $2/b or higher and is NOT AS PURE since the grocery store one is USP/food grade! Chlorinating Concentrate--This could be one of several chemicals but is most likely dichlor, a stabilized chlorine that will add cyanuric acid at a rate of 9 ppm for every 10 ppm free chlorine added. Cyanruic acid is used to stabilizer chlorine from loss by sunlight (UV light). Howver, it also makes chlorine less effective against killing pathogens, particualry at the elevated water temps found in a spa so the level should be limited to under about 30-40 ppm in most cases Unstabiilzied chlorine sources that can be used (and are also known as 'chlorinating granules" are calcium hypochlorite (which adds 7 ppm calcium hardness for every 10 ppm free chlorine added and might or might not be an issue, depending on your initial water hardness), and lithium hypochlorite, which has no adverse effects but is extremely expens$ive!. Sodium hypochlorite liquid can also be used and also has no adverse effects. This is commonly sold as liquid pool chlorine or shock and also as plain, unscented liquid chlorine laundry bleach!) Foam Out--Usually a silicone compunts such as dimethicone. Usually not needed in a properly cared for spa! Clarifier--usually a syntthetic such as sodium polyacrylate or a natural chitosan from crab shells, also usually not needed in a properly cared for spa! Test Strips--useless for general use. Get a GOOD test kit. If you are using chlorine or silver/MPS get a Taylor K-2006, For bromine get a Taylor K-2106. If you are using silver MPS then you can use the MPS strips to test daily MPS levels but do not use the TA or pH sections of the strip. Use the Taylor kit. You can also get a special MPS reagent add on for the K-2006 for testing MPS levels There are some specialty test strips that have limited use such as MPS, borate, ammonia, and salt. Other than those strips are pretty useless. All SpaGuard Brand... Should there not be a Total Alalinity decrease as well? Spa Guard is a Chemtura brand. They are one of the two big manufacturers of pool/spa products with 11 US consumer brands (the other is Arch/Lonza wtih 12 US consumer brands)) and their main concern is NOT to have you balance your water but to sell you as many chemicals as they can to help their bottom line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6192 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Which is easier do you think Waterbear? Seems like the sitck and MPS seems pretty straightforward... but the chlorine does as well... maybe a little easier? I do have the K2006 test kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Three step bromine is probably the lowest maintenance and the most forgiving if you are a bit careless about taking care of the spa. Chlorine is probably better in a high usage spa but it requires almost daily attention. Then again a high usage spa would get that attention. Silver/MPS is easy IF you keep on top of it but if you don't the water can "go south' pretty fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6192 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Chlorine it is... It will be high use because it will be new. We may switch over to the MPS in the spring. Is there a rule of thumb as to what to do as you use your tub with Chlorine? Like add x amount of table spoons of chlorine or whatever after x amount of people use the tub? I've read a bunch of different posts, but knowing what i am starting with for chemicals, do you have a suggested rout that I can adjust depending on test results? Is there anything else I should pick up... I need to go there tomorrow to sign the pre-delivery invoice. I'm taking my tap water up for analysis tomorrow. What about the hose filter? needed? Thanks waterbear... and others... appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6192 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 The 'mineral stick" adds silver via silver nitrate impregnated ceramic beads. You sanitizer is silver and MP?KS (postasium monopersulfate), not the chloriine added on startup and then weekly (or more if needed) . MPS is 'non chlorine shock". By itself MPS is NOT a sanitizer but when catalyzed by silver ions at hot water temperatures such as found in spas it becomes one. Silver is also a sanitizer but is way too slow acting on its own to be useful as a spa santizer. The chorine is used ot remove biofilm from the ceramic beads so they continue to release silver into the water and to provide some additional sanitation so the silver?MPS can "keep up" . If you decide to use only chloirne you do not need the 'mineral stick' as it really does nothing on it's own and you will be running a chlorine spa with normal and not reduced chlorine levels. Why would they include: Spa Shock - Oxidizer (Potassium peroxymonosulfate 31%, other ingredients 69%) it's non chlorine so do I really use this? It says it eliminates undesirable compounds for clear water. This is MPS correct? The rest of the chemicals are all chlorine based: Ph Increaser (Sodium Carbonate 100%) Total Alkalinity Increaser (Sodium hydrogen carbonate 100%) Chlorinating Concentrate gSofium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate (99%) Anti Foam Natural Spa Enzyme - what is this for? 4- way Test Strips (free chlorine, total bromine, pH, Total Alkalinity) Thanks... I'm a little in panic mode. I haven't even filled my tub yet! It's just sitting there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Why would they include: Spa Shock - Oxidizer (Potassium peroxymonosulfate 31%, other ingredients 69%) it's non chlorine so do I really use this? It says it eliminates undesirable compounds for clear water. This is MPS correct? This is why I locked the first thread. I answered a lot of these questions in your 'new' thread that you just started because you did not thnk you would get any answered in this one. When you have multiple threads you have less chance of getting answers. I will answer about the MPS here but everything else about the chemicals is in the other thread so please pick which thread you want and I will merge everything into one. MPS can be useful with chlorine under certain circumstances but is usually not needed. They gave it to you because they want you to buy more and so you think you NEED it. The more chemicals they can sell you the better for their bottom line but not necessarily better for your water chemistry, where fewer products often means easier maintenance and more stable water! (A case of less being more.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion6192 Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Thank you... Sorry. I will follow the other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly Parsons Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 Does the mineral stick replace the Proclear liquid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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