cody20 Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Ok, I have 2 jandy valves on this pool. One is on the line for the main pump going into the filter. The other is in front of the salt cell. The one in front of the salt cell is currently turned counter- clockwise. This is allowing water to flow through the salt cell but i have NO returns!. If i turn the valve all the way clockwise, I have returns but then you can tell theres no water flowing through the ssalt cell. Pool turnd green over the weekend. I have both skimmers and main drain valves wide open. Any Help?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 If you could post some pics of the plumbing we can see better what might be going on. Are these two way or three way valves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody20 Posted June 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Pics will be on in 2 days. Theres a small toggle switch on the side of the valve. Down moves it one way, middle stops it, and up moves it back the other way. Sorry for poor explanation. Ive got it all the way turned to the left(counter-clockwise). Salt cell is flowing. To the left of this jandy valve, the pipe goes about 24 inches and is capped off. Been told thats an Ortega valve. It rattles likes theres rocks inside the pipe. Pool has been poorly maintained in the past. Thanks again for all the help on this subject! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody20 Posted June 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Also when the filter is off overnight, by the morning the spa is halfway empty. Fills back up pretty quick. Any ideas on this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Oki, those are not jandy valves, they are electric valve actuators. You have a pool/spa combo with shared filtration. YOu also have some type of automation system for slelecting pool or spa mode, correct? What type is it? NOW we have a better idea of what is going on. The valve actuator in front of the pump selects whether the water is taken from the spa drain (for spa mode) or from the pool skimmers/drain (for pool or spillover mode). The other after the salt cell selects whether water is returned only to the spa (for spa mode or, depending on how your system is set up, whether it is returnned to the pool only (for pool mode) or pool and spa (spillover mode). A few qiuestions: 1. is the spa a spillover spa does it normally spill over in pool mode? 2.Is the spa at a highre leel than the pool? 3. do you have a check valve in the system in the spa drain line? Check valves go bad and then water will drain out and into the pool when the spa is off or the pump is off. If itis a jandy type check valve (with 8 screws on a clear cover) then the 'guts' inside can be replaced in about 5 minutes...the longest part is unscrewing and then rescrewing the screws. The pics will tell us a lot more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody20 Posted June 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yes I can select between pool or spa mode. Ok, Ill change that to return to the pool. Yes, the spa is elevated about 3 feet above the pool allowing water to spill over the edge into the pool. Its been a pretty heavy spill but it all makes since if all my returned water was going through the spa. Do I want 100% of the water returned through the pool? Or a mix of returns through pool and spa? As for #3 I have been told its called an Ortega valve. Its not how you explained it (pics are coming soon I promise) But its inside the pipe beside the automatic valve, in front of the salt cell. Thats what making a 'rattling ' sound. Sorry to sound confusing. I think were on the same page. This already helps out alot. Thank you. Will post an update and pics soon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 once I see the pics we can tell a lot more about what is going on. Ortega valves are a brand name. They were made by Pentair (formerly Purex and Compool). They make check valves and two and three way valves. The two and three way valves, being an older design, are rarely used today but the check valves are still pretty common. My suggestion is to replace it with a Jandy or Pentair (Compool) check valve,,which is a newer design. If yours is rattling it is probably no good anymore and could explain why the water drains out of the spa when the pump is off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody20 Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ok i have pictures, trying to figure out how to upload them.... This check valve I need is on a straight pipe. No 90. Once again if I can ever get these pics on here you can see what I'm talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ok i have pictures, trying to figure out how to upload them.... This check valve I need is on a straight pipe. No 90. Once again if I can ever get these pics on here you can see what I'm talking about Like this? To upload pics you need to upload them to a site like photobucket or picassa and then click on the image box on the lower toolbar at the top of the editor and insert the URL of the pic like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody20 Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ok lets try this. <a href="http://s1151.photobucket.com/albums/o639/cody7651/?action=view¤t=20120613_084626.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o639/cody7651/20120613_084626.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody20 Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 In between the jandy valve and the cap, my spa return line is going straight down. cant really see it in the pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 you spa return line should be the one going through the 90 degree ortega check valve on the far left in the pic (like the first one I posted. You do need the 90 and not the 180 valve).. The line without the check valve should be going to the pool returns. I assume the gang of three jandy valves in the second pic going into the pump strainer control skimmers and drain, Correct? the left hand side of the acutaltor should be the spa drain (going directly into the ground) What is the second pump for and what equipment (if any) is it connected to? (I have two pumps on my own pool also, one being only for the deck jets, waterfalls, and pool cleaner port). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody20 Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ok ill get the 90 degree ortega valve. Its still somewhat confusing to me. All you see is the pipe where the ortega valve is inside of. The pic you uploaded in previous posts had a clear side with 8 screws. So i guess they dont all have to look like that. The one i have is totally internal? Yes they 3 jandy valves are #1 skimmer, #2 skimmer, and main drain. Is there anything else that would cause the spa to drain down when the pump is not running ? And do i replace the 'guts' of the ortega valve or am i going to have to cut into the pipe? Thanks again for all the help on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 This is an Ortega check valve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 This is what is inside it: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 This is the check valve you WANT to get, It is called a Jandy or Compool (Pentair)check valve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 The Jandy type of check valve is clear so you can see it working and know when it stops working (they all stop working after a few years). The guts inside are all replacable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 OK picture 3 that you posted shows that the actuator is set to send water to the pool returndsand the spa returns in pool mode so the spa spills over. This is also how the spa get chlorinated since the cell is most likely turned off when the system is put into spa mode (unless your automation allows for separate settings on the chlorinator for pool and spa modes and, unless I am wrong, only Hayward/Goldline automation systems allow that). It does look like you have a Haward/Goldline salt cell and flow switch so do you have an Aqualogic system? Notice how the handle is not turned all the way toward the right but is at about a 45 degree angle. In this positon water should be flowiing through the spa jets and pool returns. However, in this picture: it shows another valve right before the 90 elbow that returns to the pool. How is that set? I assume it controls the water flowing to the pool returns and perhaps a pressure side cleaner port or water feature? Try turning it to the right and see you get water from the returns. In this picture it shows the valve actualtor in the 'spa position (handle pointing to the left) and all the water should be flowing out the spa jets and none out the pool returns. If this is not the case and it is reversed then you need to put the switch on the actuator on the other positon (remember that it is a 3 way switch with center off so it needs to be ether all the way to one side or the other We will look at the other actuator and the drains and skimmers in the next post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 In this picture we have the drain from the spa on the left and what i assume are the skimmer and main drain from the pool on the right: There is no handle on this actutor, which makes it impossible to tell by the picture if you are in pool or spa mode. In spa mode all water comes from the spa from the left elbow (and if you had a handle on the valve acutator it would be pointing to the left in spa mode. If not you would need to flip the swtich on the actuator to the other side). One the pool side it appears that there are 4 drains/skimmers controlled by 3 three way valves, is that correct? Also, I noticed in this picture shows more clearly the three way jandy type valve on the pool return side. I would assume that this is to control a water feature or a pressure side cleaner port. There appears to be inline check valves on both return branches but it is hard to tell in the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 In this picture we have the drain from the spa on the left and what i assume are the skimmer and main drain from the pool on the right: There is no handle on this actutor, which makes it impossible to tell by the picture if you are in pool or spa mode. It's in pool mode (drawing from the right side) I didn't think anyone's eyesight was worse than mine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I didn't think anyone's eyesight was worse than mine... Without my glasses they estimate my vision is about 20/2000! I also now have an inoperable cataract (because of progressive myopia) in my left eye because there is over a 30% chance of blindness if they try the operation. At any rate, was wondering when you were going to show up at this party! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody20 Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hey I'm right here. Sorry I was at the pool this morning. Got the automatic valve thats by the salt cell turned to the right. Like you said it doesnt turn all the way to the right but mostly. Ok, now I have pool returns. The actuator without the handle is turned all the way to the right. Allowing the skimmers and main drains to work? I went theis morning about 1 hour before the timer would kick on the pump and my spa had about a foot of water in it. Thats got to be the ortega valve, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody20 Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I dont want to get to crazy about this ortega valve. No re-plumbing if i can help it. So I'd rather not use the one with the clear lid and just replace the internal one. That cap should screw off, right? I'm hoping its not glued. Plus, I'm having a hard time finding this 'internal' ortega valve. Do I need to replace the spring also? From what I've been told its sold seperatly. Also any lube required or anything other special things I should know about before tearing into this replacement? Thanks again for all the help. Your very in depth with explaining all this. The spa draining is my only problem with this pool at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 I would start with the otega guts first, cuz im lazy. One drawback is that the new spool may rattle and drive you nuts. Another pitfall is that the old spool may have worn a groove in the cylinder, and the new one wont seat properly, and leak(spa drains over night). If that happens, then the fancy check valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Another pitfall is that the old spool may have worn a groove in the cylinder, and the new one wont seat properly, and leak(spa drains over night). If that happens, then the fancy check valve. May have worn a groove? I would say pretty much expect it which is why I said replace the valve with a jandy type, the odds are in favor of you having to anyway. Also, you can get a new jandy check valve often for less than the replacement parts for the Ortega (hint, if you do replace it with the jandy type it is often cheaper to buy a new valve, either jandy or pentair-they are interchangable- and take the guts out when you need to replace them in the future since it is often less expensive that way. particularly if you buy them online.) Just my 2 cents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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