Dimension 1, Master Spa, Hotspring, Sundance

[cyclist]

Hello All,

I'm new to the forum and it has a wealth of info. That said, I hope I'm not repeating any thread.

I am purchasing a new hot tub and have what some call "information overload". I am looking for a 7'x7' (or a little bigger) tub that can accommodate about 4 adults (some say 4 - 6 but realistically I see this as 4). I have whittled the list down to 4 manufacturers and am trying to hear if these brands are relatively comparable from a quality product perspective.

Dimension One, Master Spa, Hot Spring, and Sundance.

I saw a make of Master Spa (Down East Exeter I think) at one of the traveling spa shows. I had no information on the brand at the time and they were selling a unit with 3 pumps (not including the circulation pump) and were touting that kind of like Spinal Tap, "this one goes to 11" when I asked why I'd need 3 pumps vs 2. The mfg rep was very knowledgeable and considering I was out on a fact finding mission (had assumed this was like a mini home show and not a spa sale) I was close to purchasing but needed to do some research. Then came the local sales person with the classic "what's it gonna take to get you into this tub today" AGGRESSIVE sales push and I walked out. Price started around $8000 and was dropping to around $7000. Had no idea of the product and the sales tactic turned me off so I left. May well have been a great tub / deal but I'll never know as it's moved on.

The other brands "Dimension One" (model Nautique), "Hot Spring" (model Aria), and "Sundance" (Optima / Cameo) I saw at two independent local shops. No pushy sales people. High price on all 3 models ($8500 to $10,000) but again I was just doing the research on what was out there so I was not ready to purchase.

Through this process I've rules out a low end model due to complaints and while I don't want to overspend I am OK spending a bit more for a quality product with area service.

Of the 4 brands I've mentioned can anyone provide any info on whether these are in fact in the same league and if the price range I quoted seems to high or within reason. Also, I am NOT looking for a stereo or TV built into the product. I expect the tub, cover, delivery, and basic lighting package to be included.

OK, thoughts / opinions?

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

IMO, as a service store, and not one of the brands we sell (I am partial to one of those:) ), I would put hot spring, then sundance, both very quality built spas, then D! and am not a big master spa fan. Test each that you are looking at, see which dealer you like better, who is going to service you the best, that is part of what you are paying for.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Hello All,

I'm new to the forum and it has a wealth of info. That said, I hope I'm not repeating any thread.

I am purchasing a new hot tub and have what some call "information overload". I am looking for a 7'x7' (or a little bigger) tub that can accommodate about 4 adults (some say 4 - 6 but realistically I see this as 4). I have whittled the list down to 4 manufacturers and am trying to hear if these brands are relatively comparable from a quality product perspective.

Dimension One, Master Spa, Hot Spring, and Sundance.

I saw a make of Master Spa (Down East Exeter I think) at one of the traveling spa shows. I had no information on the brand at the time and they were selling a unit with 3 pumps (not including the circulation pump) and were touting that kind of like Spinal Tap, "this one goes to 11" when I asked why I'd need 3 pumps vs 2. The mfg rep was very knowledgeable and considering I was out on a fact finding mission (had assumed this was like a mini home show and not a spa sale) I was close to purchasing but needed to do some research. Then came the local sales person with the classic "what's it gonna take to get you into this tub today" AGGRESSIVE sales push and I walked out. Price started around $8000 and was dropping to around $7000. Had no idea of the product and the sales tactic turned me off so I left. May well have been a great tub / deal but I'll never know as it's moved on.

The other brands "Dimension One" (model Nautique), "Hot Spring" (model Aria), and "Sundance" (Optima / Cameo) I saw at two independent local shops. No pushy sales people. High price on all 3 models ($8500 to $10,000) but again I was just doing the research on what was out there so I was not ready to purchase.

Through this process I've rules out a low end model due to complaints and while I don't want to overspend I am OK spending a bit more for a quality product with area service.

Of the 4 brands I've mentioned can anyone provide any info on whether these are in fact in the same league and if the price range I quoted seems to high or within reason. Also, I am NOT looking for a stereo or TV built into the product. I expect the tub, cover, delivery, and basic lighting package to be included.

OK, thoughts / opinions?

IMO D1, Hot Spring and Sundance are all high quality, energy efficient brands with manufacturers that stand behind their product and all on my personal short list. Master and their traveling spa circus are on my other list. They don't campare to the other 3 and should be far less $$ but even then I wouldn't touch them personally (btw, I'm very familair with the "This one goes to eleven" quote, that is classic and spot on in this case).

Visit your local dealers and wet test each of them, that should give you some valuable feedback.

[hd2000]

Having owned 2 Hot Spring and 1 Sundance spa I can say that IMO, they are in the same league. I've looked at the D1 spas numerous times, but the styling and layout have never been what I was looking for, but the quality was equal to the HS and Sundance spas. I would put those three all at the same level. I know absolutely nothing about Master Spas. My opinion is that the previous 3 are all top of the line spas. As was previously mentioned, you get what you pay for and the price range you mentioned seems in the ball park.

[PoolSpaGuy30]

my list in order would be Hot Spring, D1, Sundance, Master <---no thank you, google and this board can provide many horror stories related to Master Spas. Its going to come down to personal preference as far as the first 3 brands I have listed...go wet test a few and see which tub feels the most comfortable for you and your family which is the most important deciding factor in my opinion, then start looking at price differences, etc.

[d1dennis2009]

well at least you ave come to the right place to get feedback, you will get both biased and unbiased opinions in this forum. But I would agree, D1, HS and Sundance at make great spas and will be along similiar line in price. I would not waste a second of time at any traveling circus, I don't care what they are selling or what tell you they can do for you..! You will do best by wet testing the short list and talking to the dealer to see how long they have been carrying the line and how they can help you after the sale.

Good luck in your search..

[cyclist]

Thank you all for the prompt and very useful replies. I suppose it's good to know I'm in the right ball park as far as what I'm looking at. The process of finding the info was tricky but this forum helped immensely.

I agree that finding the right distributor with solid service is invaluable. Last thing you want is a problem to happen without a good way to get it resolved. I hadn't considered taking one for a "test soak" but that makes a lot of sense.

[hd2000]

You definately need to wet test if you can. A spa can look really good to you, but when filled with water and running it may not be all that you thought it would be and conversly, a spa you think may not do, will be just the ticket. The seat comfort, the way the jets stimulate and all that makes a big difference, and what feels right for you, may not be right for me. A tub can look good, but not feel all that good or at least feel the way you imagined it would. Besides that, wet testing makes spa shopping one of the best shopping experiances you can have! Dealer service and support and the comfort level you have with that dealer plays a big roll to. One of the reasons I didn't get a Sundance this time around was because of the dealer, not the tub. If you had concerns that you may not be looking at quality spas, relax. HS, Sundance, and D1 are at the top of everyones list.

[mouth]

Thank you all for the prompt and very useful replies. I suppose it's good to know I'm in the right ball park as far as what I'm looking at. The process of finding the info was tricky but this forum helped immensely.

I agree that finding the right distributor with solid service is invaluable. Last thing you want is a problem to happen without a good way to get it resolved. I hadn't considered taking one for a "test soak" but that makes a lot of sense.

Wet Test, Wet Test, Wet Test. My wife and I looked at the Jacuzzi J-365, the Caldera Niagara and the Sundance Chelsee & Optima. We thought we liked the Niagara and Chelsee the best before wet testing. After Wet Tesing we decided to spend more money to upgrade to the Sundance Optima. WHile wet testing we realized how much we loved foot jets, the depths in each seat, comfort of seating and the different jet type feel.

[Coops]

I looked at D1, Jacuzzi and Hot Springs before deciding to buy the D1. I decided against Hot Springs as I did not care for the local dealer and his sales tactics. I considered Jacuzzi but really liked the D1 dealer who has the best reputation in our area for sales AND service. After wet testing the Californian I was sold. In the D1 line I also looked at the Nautilus but we wanted a lounger and i really like the ultra life shell so the Californian was the best bet. I just looked at the layout of the Nautique online - that looks like a really nice tub and I like the configuration. The only consideration in that particular setup is that it looks like you need to keep at least 2 of the sides very accessible for maintenance (the side where the M-Drive is located and the side where the filters are located). This may or may not be a consideration for you depending on where you plan to place the tub but I am sharing it as it was not something I was thinking about when shopping. We ended up being lucky with how the tub fit/was placed in terms of access (AFTER getting our electrician and local utility company to move an overhead power line :-)

Good luck- take your time and ask questions. Most of the people on this forum are VERY helpful.

PS I never considered Master Spa but have read several posts about them, their sales tactics, etc. Based on what i've read, I'd avoid them.

[cyclist]

I looked at D1, Jacuzzi and Hot Springs before deciding to buy the D1. I decided against Hot Springs as I did not care for the local dealer and his sales tactics. I considered Jacuzzi but really liked the D1 dealer who has the best reputation in our area for sales AND service. After wet testing the Californian I was sold. In the D1 line I also looked at the Nautilus but we wanted a lounger and i really like the ultra life shell so the Californian was the best bet. I just looked at the layout of the Nautique online - that looks like a really nice tub and I like the configuration. The only consideration in that particular setup is that it looks like you need to keep at least 2 of the sides very accessible for maintenance (the side where the M-Drive is located and the side where the filters are located). This may or may not be a consideration for you depending on where you plan to place the tub but I am sharing it as it was not something I was thinking about when shopping. We ended up being lucky with how the tub fit/was placed in terms of access (AFTER getting our electrician and local utility company to move an overhead power line :-)

Good luck- take your time and ask questions. Most of the people on this forum are VERY helpful.

PS I never considered Master Spa but have read several posts about them, their sales tactics, etc. Based on what i've read, I'd avoid them.

Great point about accessibility, thank you. All four sides will be accessible with our placement but I will make sure that if there are any plantings around it that there is sufficient clearance to gain access to the service sides. The filter side I will make certain is left wide open.

[THE SPA GUY]

I would agree the tops of the list D1, Sundance, Hot Springs, all great brands, I think it is important to find a dealer that is trustworthy and that your are comfortable working with,,,But you will find biased and unbiased info here,The Nautique model is a great model that has become one of our better sellers..alot of features in that tub....

[cyclist]

I would agree the tops of the list D1, Sundance, Hot Springs, all great brands, I think it is important to find a dealer that is trustworthy and that your are comfortable working with,,,But you will find biased and unbiased info here,The Nautique model is a great model that has become one of our better sellers..alot of features in that tub....

Question about the Nautique. The adjustable headrests / neck jets look like a potential to break. Any experience with the headrest neck jet assembly? Concerned with people playing around with them that the host / bracket are ripe for breaking. Thoughts / opinions?

[Coops]

I would agree the tops of the list D1, Sundance, Hot Springs, all great brands, I think it is important to find a dealer that is trustworthy and that your are comfortable working with,,,But you will find biased and unbiased info here,The Nautique model is a great model that has become one of our better sellers..alot of features in that tub....

Question about the Nautique. The adjustable headrests / neck jets look like a potential to break. Any experience with the headrest neck jet assembly? Concerned with people playing around with them that the host / bracket are ripe for breaking. Thoughts / opinions?

My D1 has one seat with the adjustable neck jets and i have not had any problems with it. In fact, i was just sitting in that seat (it is 15 degrees out!) i have not had a lot of people use the spa but none of my guests have done a lof of adju.sting. My sense is that the mechanism is fairly sturdy.

[cyclist]

I would agree the tops of the list D1, Sundance, Hot Springs, all great brands, I think it is important to find a dealer that is trustworthy and that your are comfortable working with,,,But you will find biased and unbiased info here,The Nautique model is a great model that has become one of our better sellers..alot of features in that tub....

Question about the Nautique. The adjustable headrests / neck jets look like a potential to break. Any experience with the headrest neck jet assembly? Concerned with people playing around with them that the host / bracket are ripe for breaking. Thoughts / opinions?

My D1 has one seat with the adjustable neck jets and i have not had any problems with it. In fact, i was just sitting in that seat (it is 15 degrees out!) i have not had a lot of people use the spa but none of my guests have done a lof of adju.sting. My sense is that the mechanism is fairly sturdy.

Thanks. Now to find a dealer where we can "wet test" the D1. We tested both the Sundance and HotSpring units today. I liked them both and could easily live with either but my wife found the HotSpring to powerful. She was unable to "stay in one place". The Sundance unit worked better for her size (about 5' 2").

[hottubdan]

Thanks. Now to find a dealer where we can "wet test" the D1. We tested both the Sundance and HotSpring units today. I liked them both and could easily live with either but my wife found the HotSpring to powerful. She was unable to "stay in one place". The Sundance unit worked better for her size (about 5' 2").

If she found it too powerful, just dial it down.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Thanks. Now to find a dealer where we can "wet test" the D1. We tested both the Sundance and HotSpring units today. I liked them both and could easily live with either but my wife found the HotSpring to powerful. She was unable to "stay in one place". The Sundance unit worked better for her size (about 5' 2").

If she found it too powerful, just dial it down.

Whenever you wet test don't hesitate to ask quetions and give feedback, especially if there are some things tht you find to be less than optimal.

I remember a few years ago I was workingin a store and some people came in to wet test. I specifaclly asked if they needed help to get started and they assuerd me they were fine and went into the enclosed room. When they were coming out I asked hgow it went and they said fine. I pushed a little to ask if they had any questions and finally the comment was that the foot jets were weak. I kenw that couldn't be true, went over and noticed the air to them was off and the diverter set at half way. The guy got back in and said "wow, mcuh better" and they ended up purchasing. If I didn't say anything I know they would have walked. In reality he should have said something wihtout me prying but I know how it goes, some people will talk to you like an open book while others are like a vault when you want to interact with them.

[cyclist]

Thanks. Now to find a dealer where we can "wet test" the D1. We tested both the Sundance and HotSpring units today. I liked them both and could easily live with either but my wife found the HotSpring to powerful. She was unable to "stay in one place". The Sundance unit worked better for her size (about 5' 2").

If she found it too powerful, just dial it down.

Whenever you wet test don't hesitate to ask quetions and give feedback, especially if there are some things tht you find to be less than optimal.

I remember a few years ago I was workingin a store and some people came in to wet test. I specifaclly asked if they needed help to get started and they assuerd me they were fine and went into the enclosed room. When they were coming out I asked hgow it went and they said fine. I pushed a little to ask if they had any questions and finally the comment was that the foot jets were weak. I kenw that couldn't be true, went over and noticed the air to them was off and the diverter set at half way. The guy got back in and said "wow, mcuh better" and they ended up purchasing. If I didn't say anything I know they would have walked. In reality he should have said something wihtout me prying but I know how it goes, some people will talk to you like an open book while others are like a vault when you want to interact with them.

Sales person was good. Was there when we tried both models. Wasn't able to adjust it so it worked well for her. That's the good thing about trying it out. This model just wasn't right. Now to try out the D1 and them make the decision.

[THE SPA GUY]

In regards to the adjustable neck jet, should not be an issue i haven't had anyone come back and say they have a problem with them or the flex line,,,,I guess if it did have problems they would not still be putting them on the spas all these years,

[Brosquatch]

All great brands, I have owned both a Sundance and a Hotspring and have strongly considered a D1, In the Hotspring line I would recommend the Vanguard, with your wifes size she will most likely not find any spa with a lounger that she can stay seated in. I would also be happy with a Sundance, never had any major issues. When looking at the D1 I just felt they were priced a little high, or at least in my area. I will touch a nerve with some and say I did find the Hotsprings way of filtering the water better. I never enjoyed cleaning debris from my by-pass intakes in my Sundance. So for me I say HS, Sundance second then D1. Although take a look at the Vanguard over the Aria.........

[d1dennis2009]

master spas is a joke. your a silly goose if you buy one. the other 3 are great spas. hot springs is the best. your not going to have the same features and benefits in the others. 100% no-bypass filtration, $20 a month guarantee, hot springs exclusive jets and the best jet pressure.they are also owned by masco, which is a huge multi billion dollar fortune 500 company. so they are forced to have great service and warranty. and they are not going anywhere.

price wise where you said is right. if you can get an aria for around 10k your doing great. and its worth it.

there are more used hot springs tubs out there running, than there are all the other manufactures combined.

Just curious if you have data to back up this claim, because I really doubt that this is something that you could prove. HS has great spas, but D1 Spas hae been around for 30 years and Mult-Billion dollar company or not, D1 is going nowhere but up.. I just happen to disagree with the fact that you appear to be misleading the poster with garbage, as around to people who "really know" and can back the facts with data and not speculation and opinion.

[THE SPA GUY]

swozadio

Here we go again " The Best" thing again,,, no can be wether you are biased for D1, Hot Springs, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Etc. these are all tops, If any one of these companies we not cutting it they would be gone, since they have all been around the block, it would be safe to say they arethe leaders in the industry. On the 100% no bypass filtration, You must have gone thru Hot Springs sales 101, It is a good System, But when it is time to replace filters ,,,,,,,ouch,,,, On the gurantee....on any manufacturer, if the dollar amount goes over what do you do. Most dealers who use this put safety nets in them for the dealer, If you think it is costing more than the gurantee It is at the owners expense to get a meter from the local power company,,, thats an expense to the consumer than the run the test for a month and the differance is say 5- 6 bucks, is it really worth their time to say hey i just spent 30.00 on a meter to see how much it is costing to say hey it cost more money, they are still in the hole, right??? I will tell customers when they are looking at spas that most spas are testing in the same paramters, and they give an average with different killowatt rates...I like the exclusive things, every manufacturer uses that junk, example Its a waterway jet that a lot of companies use, but on brands A it is a widget exclusive to this brands, but brand B uses a whatchamacallit exclusively , both made by the same manufacturer, the color is different or looks different but really the same, it goes on and on,,, i hate using the word exclusive,,, i choose not to use them don't like wish that would change, but not gonna happen, to many consumers actually believe what they hear.....without researching it ...IMO

[cyclist]

swozadio

Here we go again " The Best" thing again,,, no can be wether you are biased for D1, Hot Springs, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Etc. these are all tops, If any one of these companies we not cutting it they would be gone, since they have all been around the block, it would be safe to say they arethe leaders in the industry. On the 100% no bypass filtration, You must have gone thru Hot Springs sales 101, It is a good System, But when it is time to replace filters ,,,,,,,ouch,,,, On the gurantee....on any manufacturer, if the dollar amount goes over what do you do. Most dealers who use this put safety nets in them for the dealer, If you think it is costing more than the gurantee It is at the owners expense to get a meter from the local power company,,, thats an expense to the consumer than the run the test for a month and the differance is say 5- 6 bucks, is it really worth their time to say hey i just spent 30.00 on a meter to see how much it is costing to say hey it cost more money, they are still in the hole, right??? I will tell customers when they are looking at spas that most spas are testing in the same paramters, and they give an average with different killowatt rates...I like the exclusive things, every manufacturer uses that junk, example Its a waterway jet that a lot of companies use, but on brands A it is a widget exclusive to this brands, but brand B uses a whatchamacallit exclusively , both made by the same manufacturer, the color is different or looks different but really the same, it goes on and on,,, i hate using the word exclusive,,, i choose not to use them don't like wish that would change, but not gonna happen, to many consumers actually believe what they hear.....without researching it ...IMO

Thanks again to all of you that responded. This info has been extremely helpful. Once I test a D1 I'll be able to make my choice and know I had all the information. Right now it's down to Sundance and D1. HotSpring was a great product but my wife did not find a seat that worked well for her or we'd have ordered that. At 5' 2" she's the one that needs the seat that she can relax in and be comfortable and not feel like she's floating out or under. It's hard to explain but the foot bump (not sure what it's called) made the Sundance very comfortable for her and what this all comes down to is what works well for us both.

As I think all have said, all 3 of the brands we're considering are good choices. Will post back when we've made the decision.

[hd2000]

"what this all comes down to is what works well for us both."

Bingo! You hit the nail square on the head. You already did enough due diligance in selecting the makes you wanted to consider and you were picking from the top of the line manufacturers. After that, it's all a matter of getting the spa that works best for you. It does not matter if you get a D1, Sundance, or Hot Spring. They are all top notch and I doubt you would go wrong with any of them from a quality perspective. What does matter is how well the models you select work for you and how well the dealer treats their customers.

[JimKW]

The hump in the middle on the Sundance Optima is what both my wife and I like quite a bit. My wife is just a little taller than yours and she loves it. We had an older Hot Springs some years ago and she hardly ever used it for some reason. My biggest gripe about the Optima is the fact there is no lounger, but with the hump in the middle every seat feels a lot like a lounger. We both like the foot jets. I tried one other Sundance with a lounger and did not like it at all. The jets were way too strong on my calves and there was no adjustment to make them weaker. Like you are finding out, it's how it feels with water in it that counts. Sitting in one without water to see how it feels is not going to tell you anything.