Evo Csxi80 Vs. Sundance Jets

[bgrizzle]

If you are a dealer or manufacturer, please do not reply to this thread.

This is a question for those out there that actually own the CSXi80. YES, this is sold at Costco. I know I cant "wet test".

Growing up my dad had a sundance spa, and the jets were very powerful as I remember. It had what they called a "therapy seat", which had a ton of jets. As an early teenager weighing 125 pounds, the water pressure would almost push me out of the seat...

I am looking at the CSXi80, and I want to be sure that the water pressure from the jets is substantial... So, if there is anybody out there that owns this spa, and has owned or been in other spas, I would appreciate feedback...

I looked at a Dynasty spa today that would cost me a couple thousand more... the pressure seemed really high... But its more expensive.

I have read all the posts about the "costco spa" and dynasty... I know they are not one of the BIG 5 or 10. BUT, I can't afford a $10K spa.

So the two I mentioned here are in my budget. I look forward to your responses...

[Spa_Guru]

Compared to a Sundance, the CSX will be pathetic.

There is no such thing as fine wine on a beer budget.

The amount you "save" buying the Costco tub will be spent twice over on repairs when you find your warranty is worthless.

I am not a dealer, I am an independant repairman, the lifespan of the average Costco supplier of spas is about 8-12 months before they vanish, and then resurface under a different name, and they never intend to stick around in the first place.

Mr Dolder and Mr Martin run a very efficient, yet perfectly legal scam. Manufacture tubs under a corporate name (like ICON or JUMPKING) wait until the warranty becomes a hassle, bankrupt the corporation, and reopen it under a different name... go right back at it.

Wanna knowhow bad you are going to be screwed?

Try and call the warranty claim line for the spa before you buy it.

Go ahead, I dare you

[bgrizzle]

Thank you for the reply...

Can you tell me if the Dynasty Spas are worth a damn? I am looking a Dynasty Eagle as well. The price is $6590.00.

This is the upper limit of my budget...

If you think this one sucks as well, can you offer me any advice on a GOOD, STRONG, 6 person spa in the $6K MAX price range?

Thank you.

[DK117]

the average Costco supplier of spas is about 8-12 months

I'd argue that Strong is not the average Costco supplier of spas. Only time will tell.

Wanna knowhow bad you are going to be screwed?

Try and call the warranty claim line for the spa before you buy it.

Go ahead, I dare you

e-mail anytime at support@strong9.com or call us M-F from 8AM-6PM Eastern Time for any questions or concerns 800.787.6649

That's from Chad, or you could just take your tub back to Costco any time. You can say a lot about a big box spa, but it's difficult to argue with the return policy.

Now back on topic. I own a CSXi80. I like all my jets open and it results in modest jet power for the entire tub. When I wanted more power I would simply turn off most jets and leave one seat to be the power seat. That actually made my skin itchy aka what I felt was too powerful. So my personal opinion is that I don't like terribly powerful jets. I enjoy all jets open on the low setting most of the time. And all jets on high is plenty powerful for me. I hope that helps a bit, there has been discussion of this item before, some have expressed disappointment with the power, most are satisfied. Unfortuantely I do not have experience with the Dynasty, but $1600 difference is considerable. I think you could get an Arctic Cub for something in that neighborhood, we have friends very happy with theirs.

Good luck

DK117

[Roger]

the average Costco supplier of spas is about 8-12 months

I'd argue that Strong is not the average Costco supplier of spas. Only time will tell.

Wanna knowhow bad you are going to be screwed?

Try and call the warranty claim line for the spa before you buy it.

Go ahead, I dare you

e-mail anytime at support@strong9.com or call us M-F from 8AM-6PM Eastern Time for any questions or concerns 800.787.6649

That's from Chad, or you could just take your tub back to Costco any time. You can say a lot about a big box spa, but it's difficult to argue with the return policy.

Now back on topic. I own a CSXi80. I like all my jets open and it results in modest jet power for the entire tub. When I wanted more power I would simply turn off most jets and leave one seat to be the power seat. That actually made my skin itchy aka what I felt was too powerful. So my personal opinion is that I don't like terribly powerful jets. I enjoy all jets open on the low setting most of the time. And all jets on high is plenty powerful for me. I hope that helps a bit, there has been discussion of this item before, some have expressed disappointment with the power, most are satisfied. Unfortuantely I do not have experience with the Dynasty, but $1600 difference is considerable. I think you could get an Arctic Cub for something in that neighborhood, we have friends very happy with theirs.

Good luck

DK117

Itchy skin because of jet power is directly related to the quality and style of the jets, not the water coming out of them. Good high quality jets that spread water pressure (there's several styles and sizes) will push you from the seat without making your skin itchy. You should try some of the HK jets in a Marquis.

[DK117]

Itchy skin because of jet power is directly related to the quality and style of the jets, not the water coming out of them. Good high quality jets that spread water pressure (there's several styles and sizes) will push you from the seat without making your skin itchy. You should try some of the HK jets in a Marquis.

Thanks Roger, I might just have to try that, can I purchase those after market? We are now using some massage jets from Strong that don't make it itchy, but are less powerful. But yes, my experiment with trying to make the regular jets powerful did just that, made my skin itchy.

Dk117

[Spa_Guru]

Itchy skin because of jet power is directly related to the quality and style of the jets, not the water coming out of them. Good high quality jets that spread water pressure (there's several styles and sizes) will push you from the seat without making your skin itchy. You should try some of the HK jets in a Marquis.

Thanks Roger, I might just have to try that, can I purchase those after market? We are now using some massage jets from Strong that don't make it itchy, but are less powerful. But yes, my experiment with trying to make the regular jets powerful did just that, made my skin itchy.

Dk117

Itchy skin is from high pressure, but you can get better hydrotherapy with mor flow and more air, it is the same thing Jacuzzi did with the power pro jet.

If you want to do custom jetting with HK jets by Marquis, I reccomend the HK 40, it is outstanding, 40 GPM flow, and lots of air mix, and no itchy skin even if you jam right up against it.

Go to a Marquis dealer and offer him $6K cash for a 660, or better yet, buy a newer used Epic by Marquis, or an Optima by Sundance (make certain the used tub is full of hot water when you see it)and you will spend $3-4 K max and be miles ahead of where you think you will be.

Seriously, 6K for a new 6 person (90" or larger) spa is going to get you a second rate spa at best.

Think of it like a car, you want an Escalade, but cannot afford one, so you go buy a Kia, or you go by a used Escalade. Which one will you be happier with?

I drive a used BMW Z3 because it beats the heck out of driving a new focus, and is 2/3rds the price.

[Roger]

Itchy skin because of jet power is directly related to the quality and style of the jets, not the water coming out of them. Good high quality jets that spread water pressure (there's several styles and sizes) will push you from the seat without making your skin itchy. You should try some of the HK jets in a Marquis.

Thanks Roger, I might just have to try that, can I purchase those after market? We are now using some massage jets from Strong that don't make it itchy, but are less powerful. But yes, my experiment with trying to make the regular jets powerful did just that, made my skin itchy.

Dk117

DK, sorry but there is a lot more to it than just installing a jet face to get the same feel. It starts at the filter and continues all the way through the pump, lines, manifolds and feeds to the jet. Re-engineering your entire plumbing system is probably not an option. On your tub you can get to the back of the jets (the jet body will need to be changed) but that won't be enough. It's likely your feed lines from your manifold are a size or 2 smaller than required, which means they will have to be changed which requires a different manifold. But the pump does not move enough water to meet the needs of the new parts downstream. So it and the feed to it will likely need some modifications.

Down the road you may want to try and wet test some of the tubs that cost a bit more and are NOT sold at Costco if you decide that a true hydrotherepy soak is what your looking for. In the mean time you have a hot water soak that is satisfactory for less money. And a few years from now the lifestyle may not be important to you. But if it is then by all means try out some of the higher end products available.

[Spa_Guru]

If you want to really feel how a jet will affect your skin, and you only have 2 minutes with your clothes on, put the BACK of your hand to a jet running full speed for two minutes, the back of your hand has skin similar in sensitivity and thickness to your back, if your hand starts itching, leave that showroom, and try a different one.

A real hydrotherapy jet will make your hand tingle with increased blood flow, and after 2 min your hand will be more flexible and the flesh noticably larger than the hand that didn't recieve the hydrotherapy.

[DK117]

thanks guys.

bgrizzle, is this helping any? Are you any closer to making a decision?

DK117

[njmurvin]

Itchy skin because of jet power is directly related to the quality and style of the jets, not the water coming out of them. Good high quality jets that spread water pressure (there's several styles and sizes) will push you from the seat without making your skin itchy. You should try some of the HK jets in a Marquis.

Thanks Roger, I might just have to try that, can I purchase those after market? We are now using some massage jets from Strong that don't make it itchy, but are less powerful. But yes, my experiment with trying to make the regular jets powerful did just that, made my skin itchy.

Dk117

Itchy skin is from high pressure, but you can get better hydrotherapy with mor flow and more air, it is the same thing Jacuzzi did with the power pro jet.

If you want to do custom jetting with HK jets by Marquis, I reccomend the HK 40, it is outstanding, 40 GPM flow, and lots of air mix, and no itchy skin even if you jam right up against it.

Go to a Marquis dealer and offer him $6K cash for a 660, or better yet, buy a newer used Epic by Marquis, or an Optima by Sundance (make certain the used tub is full of hot water when you see it)and you will spend $3-4 K max and be miles ahead of where you think you will be.

Seriously, 6K for a new 6 person (90" or larger) spa is going to get you a second rate spa at best.

Think of it like a car, you want an Escalade, but cannot afford one, so you go buy a Kia, or you go by a used Escalade. Which one will you be happier with?

I drive a used BMW Z3 because it beats the heck out of driving a new focus, and is 2/3rds the price.

My Marquis Everyday 660 was under $6k and included ozonator and full foam (but no speakers).

[Razorhog]

Consider a floor model if it is in good shape. I had a similar budget, but found a Jacuzzi J-280 floor model for $5299. It's a year old, and has no fancy bells and whistles, but I don't care for those things. Also,they never put water in it. The jets in it are great. I think any jet will make you itch due to pressure and vibration after a while, but the better ones offer more control and better massage. I can tweak the air and intensity in my tub to get some really nice therapy.

[Roger]

If you are a dealer or manufacturer, please do not reply to this thread.

This is a question for those out there that actually own the CSXi80. YES, this is sold at Costco. I know I cant "wet test".

Growing up my dad had a sundance spa, and the jets were very powerful as I remember. It had what they called a "therapy seat", which had a ton of jets. As an early teenager weighing 125 pounds, the water pressure would almost push me out of the seat...

I am looking at the CSXi80, and I want to be sure that the water pressure from the jets is substantial... So, if there is anybody out there that owns this spa, and has owned or been in other spas, I would appreciate feedback...

I looked at a Dynasty spa today that would cost me a couple thousand more... the pressure seemed really high... But its more expensive.

I have read all the posts about the "costco spa" and dynasty... I know they are not one of the BIG 5 or 10. BUT, I can't afford a $10K spa.

So the two I mentioned here are in my budget. I look forward to your responses...

I'm not sure if the EVO has air mixing controls or not? I know the jet faces with turn to adjust flow. If the tubs you look at have air mixing control you can at the least adjust that along with water flow at the jet face. It's kinda a pain but it's a start.

[DK117]

If you are a dealer or manufacturer, please do not reply to this thread.

This is a question for those out there that actually own the CSXi80. YES, this is sold at Costco. I know I cant "wet test".

Growing up my dad had a sundance spa, and the jets were very powerful as I remember. It had what they called a "therapy seat", which had a ton of jets. As an early teenager weighing 125 pounds, the water pressure would almost push me out of the seat...

I am looking at the CSXi80, and I want to be sure that the water pressure from the jets is substantial... So, if there is anybody out there that owns this spa, and has owned or been in other spas, I would appreciate feedback...

I looked at a Dynasty spa today that would cost me a couple thousand more... the pressure seemed really high... But its more expensive.

I have read all the posts about the "costco spa" and dynasty... I know they are not one of the BIG 5 or 10. BUT, I can't afford a $10K spa.

So the two I mentioned here are in my budget. I look forward to your responses...

I'm not sure if the EVO has air mixing controls or not? I know the jet faces with turn to adjust flow. If the tubs you look at have air mixing control you can at the least adjust that along with water flow at the jet face. It's kinda a pain but it's a start.

Roger, if I understand you correctly then yes, I can control air flow (4 valves.) My experience I've previously posted was all jets turned off except for one seat, and air controlls turned fully on (open.) That is what resulted in what I called itchy. I could have turned down the air or opened more jets to reduce that factor, but then I get less power, which is what started the question on this thread.

DK117

[Roger]

If you are a dealer or manufacturer, please do not reply to this thread.

This is a question for those out there that actually own the CSXi80. YES, this is sold at Costco. I know I cant "wet test".

Growing up my dad had a sundance spa, and the jets were very powerful as I remember. It had what they called a "therapy seat", which had a ton of jets. As an early teenager weighing 125 pounds, the water pressure would almost push me out of the seat...

I am looking at the CSXi80, and I want to be sure that the water pressure from the jets is substantial... So, if there is anybody out there that owns this spa, and has owned or been in other spas, I would appreciate feedback...

I looked at a Dynasty spa today that would cost me a couple thousand more... the pressure seemed really high... But its more expensive.

I have read all the posts about the "costco spa" and dynasty... I know they are not one of the BIG 5 or 10. BUT, I can't afford a $10K spa.

So the two I mentioned here are in my budget. I look forward to your responses...

I'm not sure if the EVO has air mixing controls or not? I know the jet faces with turn to adjust flow. If the tubs you look at have air mixing control you can at the least adjust that along with water flow at the jet face. It's kinda a pain but it's a start.

Roger, if I understand you correctly then yes, I can control air flow (4 valves.) My experience I've previously posted was all jets turned off except for one seat, and air controlls turned fully on (open.) That is what resulted in what I called itchy. I could have turned down the air or opened more jets to reduce that factor, but then I get less power, which is what started the question on this thread.

DK117

Are the jet faces a single nozzle? You need some bigger multi nozzle or rotating or split stream.

[DK117]

If you are a dealer or manufacturer, please do not reply to this thread.

This is a question for those out there that actually own the CSXi80. YES, this is sold at Costco. I know I cant "wet test".

Growing up my dad had a sundance spa, and the jets were very powerful as I remember. It had what they called a "therapy seat", which had a ton of jets. As an early teenager weighing 125 pounds, the water pressure would almost push me out of the seat...

I am looking at the CSXi80, and I want to be sure that the water pressure from the jets is substantial... So, if there is anybody out there that owns this spa, and has owned or been in other spas, I would appreciate feedback...

I looked at a Dynasty spa today that would cost me a couple thousand more... the pressure seemed really high... But its more expensive.

I have read all the posts about the "costco spa" and dynasty... I know they are not one of the BIG 5 or 10. BUT, I can't afford a $10K spa.

So the two I mentioned here are in my budget. I look forward to your responses...

I'm not sure if the EVO has air mixing controls or not? I know the jet faces with turn to adjust flow. If the tubs you look at have air mixing control you can at the least adjust that along with water flow at the jet face. It's kinda a pain but it's a start.

Roger, if I understand you correctly then yes, I can control air flow (4 valves.) My experience I've previously posted was all jets turned off except for one seat, and air controlls turned fully on (open.) That is what resulted in what I called itchy. I could have turned down the air or opened more jets to reduce that factor, but then I get less power, which is what started the question on this thread.

DK117

Are the jet faces a single nozzle? You need some bigger multi nozzle or rotating or split stream.

Itchy ones are single nozzel. Chad provided me with a bunch of three nozzle rotating massage jets. They do the trick, but aren't powerful.

I will go back to reiterate, good discussion, but I think we're making a huge deal out of a personal preference thing. OP hasn't come back and I was just providing my personal experience with this tub and the jet power.

DK117

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Itchy ones are single nozzel. Chad provided me with a bunch of three nozzle rotating massage jets. They do the trick, but aren't powerful.

I will go back to reiterate, good discussion, but I think we're making a huge deal out of a personal preference thing. OP hasn't come back and I was just providing my personal experience with this tub and the jet power.

DK117

This is a key point o any spa shopper except those who really are not worried about jet action/jet power. This is why number of jets is not the key thing to look at but rather the type of jets used and their effectiveness.

WET TEST!!!

[hot_water]

I am a CSXi80 owner, just like DK. However, unlike DK, I like very powerful jets, and had them on a previous spa. The CSXi80 has been a good spa so far, with zero problems. Overall I am a very satisfied customer.

But it is not perfect and the one problem that bothers me the most is that it does not have powerful jets compared to some other spas, including one that I owned before the the CSXi80 . If you are into powerful jets, you will have to turn off a good number of jets - then you can get an acceptable (but not great)level of power out of the jets. The spa uses two Waterway Executive 56 pumps which are ok but not the best performing pumps out there. It also has 80 jets. The more jets you have, obviously the less flow and less flow velocity you are going to get out of each hole. So, keeping only a minimum number of jets open, targeted to the areas on your body where you need to massage, helps a lot. As DK has mentioned, the spa does have air injection, but the improvement in perceived thrust with the air valve(s) open is not as pronounced as I have noted in other spas, including my earlier one. It helps, but not as much as the air in some other spas.

I don't think the itchy feeling means much. My ladyfriend gets itchy after just a few minutes with the jets on low. I use the spa a lot more than she does, and have found that in a matter of weeks if using the jets cranked up all the way, my skin doesn't get that itchy feeling nearly as much. This was true with my previous spa as well... which had better jets and a lot more jet power.

I've upgraded several jets in my CSXi80 from single nozzle types to cluster jets. I started off liking the single nozzle jets fine but now I think having a few clusters mixed into each seat leads to a better effect. The non-Costco model of the same spa (the Vienna model from Strong, I believe) has many of these clusters.... of course it costs more. You can buy a few cluster jets from Strong and try them out to see what you think.

I have found that Strong Customer service is very good. You can easily get Chad or one of the other folks from Strong on the phone. Chad has been great about supporting Customers. For example, when I commented that I didn't like the neck jets because they didn't turn off all the way and were loud, Chad jumped right on the problem. He obtained jets from Waterway that shut off completely, and sent all the owners that wanted these a set at no charge. Before I bought my Strong, I confirmed with Costco Cust Service that indeed the spa was covered by their full, unlimited moneyback satisfaction policy. You might want to make that call yourself before ordering the Strong, but assuming that their policy hasn't changed, and in consideration of Chad's excellent support, I think it would be hard to beat a spa from Costco from a risk and customer support point of view.

Overall, I like mine. Super powerful jets are not, however, its forte.