No Pressure, Air Bubbles In Return

[dmorton]

I have no pressure at my Hayward Pro Grid DE filter. Air bubbles are coming from the pool return in pool mode. Air bubbles are entering the spa in spa mode.

I have isolated my skimmers, then i have isolated the pool drain.still no pressure and air bubbles are present in the pool return.

then when switch over to spa mode i still get no pressure, and bubbles enter the spa.

i have changed out all gaskets in every valve on the inlet side, including the inlet to my hayward northstar pump.

i can manually shut off/isolate the skimmers, the pool drain, the spa drain, and the spa return. Still the same outcome. no pressure and bubbles present in the return.

The filter has been cleaned and pre-coated, i installed a new multi position valve body with valve seat gasket.

the there was work on the pop-up posts for my merlin cover right before the problem started. they had installed a longer pop-up post and i am thinking they might have cracked a pipe coming from the skimmer.

please help. I am thinking the next step is a pressure test or a big dig.

Please help

[Mark]

A cracked pipe might explain what you are experiencing. It is obviously a problem with air entering your plumbing system and probably on the suction side of the pump. Do you also see air in the pump basket? If so, this definitely would indicated a suction side leak. Since you have addressed the pump lid gasket and valve seals, the only thing left is the suction pipe.

Do you have a single pipe coming from the main drains and skimmers or separate pipes? If separate and isolating them does not decrease the air, then the air leak would be after the pipes combine. How are you isolating the runs?

[dmorton]

A cracked pipe might explain what you are experiencing. It is obviously a problem with air entering your plumbing system and probably on the suction side of the pump. Do you also see air in the pump basket? If so, this definitely would indicated a suction side leak. Since you have addressed the pump lid gasket and valve seals, the only thing left is the suction pipe.

Do you have a single pipe coming from the main drains and skimmers or separate pipes? If separate and isolating them does not decrease the air, then the air leak would be after the pipes combine. How are you isolating the runs?

there are separate pipes for the drain, deep skimmer, and shallow skimmer. i have isolated everything one by one by turning the handle on the 3-way valves. i have run each inlet by itself and still get the same results.

the pipe after they combine has been checked and re-checked, i see no leak and hear no air when the pump is on. when the pump is off there is no water leak either, the pump is below the water level of the pool so there is a head pushing on it too.

[Mark]

It would be unusual to have a crack in all three pipes so I suspect the air leak would have to be after they combine. You could try the hose trick which is pouring water over various parts of the plumbing and see if the air leak disappears.

If that doesn't find the problem, then another problem it could be is a plugged impeller. Open the pump basket, remove the basket and look/feel inside the pump inlet. Remove any debris. If that doesn't work, then you may need to disassemble the pump to get to the impeller.

[PoolsRMyLife]

Northstar Pumps have a new-style lid with a T-shaped o'ring that sometimes is required before the pump will prime. Also,

make sure if you replaced the suction-side union, the o'ring didn't slip out. If you didn't replace the Jandy valve(s) on

the suction side of the pump, sometimes air can get in thru the old o'rings. If all the above is done, try removing the filter internals and see if the pump primes. If so, dirty filter internal are the problem.

[AFiremanFirst]

I don't mean to ignore your air bubbles... But for the moment... That gauge is $5.05 that you are betting on. And if you have a salt system the bubbles could be hydrogen from the electrolysis process. If there are no bubbles in your pump basket, a valve is unlikely the cause, nor the suction side. Bubbles on the pressure side are atypical, as water is forced out rather than air forced in. I like the clogged impeller diagnosis!!! I've not had much luck reaching impellers however. And it would behove you to open the pump. Depending on the pump, there is likely a diffuser, and an o-ring and maybe a wear ring. Inspect these, if you don't know what they should like take them with you to the pool store. You've done an awesome job describing your problem. stick with us and we'll help you find your solution.

[Pool Clown]

Check the drain plug near the bottom of the strainer pot, and make sure that it is still sealing properly. Air drawn in at that point may not be seen through the lid. However, this type of leak rarely keeps the pump from priming, and may drip a little when the pump is off.

So i understand you, the pump appears to be functioning properly, no air in visible in the pump basket, no pressure on the filter gauge, and bubbles coming out of the returns. Does the air bubble up right at the return? Or does the air get shot out of the return, and bubbles up 1 or 2 feet away from the wall?

[dmorton]

You guys are great! been trying to figure this out for over a week.

turns out the impeller was 90% blocked, plastic bags, a water bottle cap, dog hair, knots from a log?

these were the things that i pulled out of the impeller, it was so jam packed that i couldn't get it all out.

i have a dead pump that i have been using parts from to fix my other 3 pumps, so i had an extra impeller.

the next question i have is: how did all this debris get past my skimmer baskets, and the strainer basket of my pump?

thanks alot for the help!

[Pool Clown]

Either you have a crack (split) in the pump basket that you may or may not be able to spot, or when someone pulled the basket out with so much debris in it that some of it fell out and into the pot, then when the pump came back on, all that stuff went into the impeller. Be careful when emptying the basket, you may want to empty by hand when its real full till you know you won't loose anything when you take the basket out of the pump to empty the rest of it.

Also, be careful when "swaping" parts from another pump, especially the impeller. Impellers are matched with the motors Hp rating. If you replaced a 1 1/2Hp impeller with a 2Hp, that could spell trouble for the motor. The 2 Hp impeller will put more of a load on the motor than it is rated for, and can fail prematurely.

If you replaced a 2 Hp impeller with a 1 1/2 impeller, then you are ok because you are down sizing the load on the motor.

Note: most pool duty motors spin at 3450 rpm, so don't think you are ok since both motors run at the same RPM.

Check the HP!

[dmorton]

Thanks clown. i didn't see any cracks in the basket. i am also the only one here that takes care of the pool.

but i never can tell if someone has been messing with things until there is a catastrophe.

the pumps were identical.

[Pool Clown]

the pumps were identical.

Ok, sounds like you are good to go.

[Keats]

19 July 2011

I know that this topic is old but I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I was searching the forum for this problem trying to figure out how my pressure dropped from 14 lbs to zero pounds in one day.

I had just replaced the filter tank top cause it split open across the top and that caused the motor to burn out. So I put a rebuilt motor on the pump and got my DE added after cleaning the grids and the inside of the filter tank. That was Saturday the 16th. The pressure went to 14 pounds and the Hayward Navigator ran like it was new. It actually climbed the pool walls and it had not done that in about 6 years. The pool cleaned up beautifully.

Sunday I went out to start the filter manually and I only got about 1 pound of pressure. Hmmm? When I put the Navigator in, it went up another pound but that was all. I fiddled with it on Monday trying various valve positions but nothing helped. I started early today and did a through back wash and then added in DE and it still read about 1 pound. I pulled the motor to check the impeller for obstructions and found none. I reinstalled the motor and tried it again. Still zero to 1 pound.

That's when I read the posts on this forum. I did have air bubbles coming out of the pool returns ( 2 of the 4 only) however I've had air bubbles for a number of years. So back to pulling the motor and rechecking it. I double checked the large "O" ring at the pump housing and it was OK. So I got out the silicone pool lube and after cleaning all the surfaces, I greased the heck out of them. I took the Jandy valve in front of the pump housing apart and cleaned it and re-lubed the "O" rings and the inside of the Jandy housing. All in all, if it had any chance of moving, it got lubed.

I reinstalled everything and crossed my fingers and turned on the pump. It went up to around 5 pounds. I then switched the Jandy valve to the Navigator inlet and the pressure went up to about 12/13 pounds. Finally...

So I adjusted the valve and had the Navigator running fast again and the pressure settled at 10 pounds.

I believe that I was sucking air around the pump housing and the top of the skimmer basket at the front of the pump housing as well as the Jandy valve. Next time I get to the pool store, I'll get replacement "O" rings for the skimmer top and the parts needed to rebuild the Jandy valve.

Naturally this had to happen now when we're in the middle of the Monsoon in Phoenix. The humidity is terrible and you simply melt when your out in the sun. If this was back in the beginning of the year, it would have been a lot easier..

I know that my wife loves the pool and for that reason alone I had it built. If it were up to me, I'd donate it to Goodwill if they'd take it away. It seems like I'm repairing something or other every week. I've replaced the tank top, motor, pump impeller and all the other pump parts, skimmer basket, skimmer top, "O" rings, auto fill valve for the water level, the salt cells on the original salt system (Ecomatic) and changed the entire salt system to a Pool Pilot as well as a number of Pool Pilot salt cells and flow valves and manifolds. I'm beginning to wonder if I have any of the original pool left after only 10 years?

I thought having a boat was a hole in the water that you throw money into. I think that it's actually a hole in the ground filled with water that you throw money into that's more expensive..

Just my 2 cents..

Keats

Arizona.