Keats

Tuesday 12 Mar 19 Update: 1st of all. Not a single reply to my posting. O.K. then.... 2nd: Opened the main breaker panel and found that one of the wires was not tight in the breaker. It actually came out of the breaker when I pulled it away from the box. I replaced the 60 amp dual breakers with a new one just to be sure it was not a defective breaker. Tightened the wires and then checked other breakers. Found three that needed just a bit more tightening. Hmmm? So powered iyt up and the spa ran like it should. Did all of the various speed and heating tests again and it kept running. Checked it again this morning and it was still working like it should. So, I'm assuming that the loose wire caused the breaker to overheat and that tripped it. Now that it's tight, no unusual heating issue so it works right. Keats Phoenix.

Sunday 10 Mar 19 Maax Vita, Grand 2015. Has two pumps. Drained and refilled and got an air bubble. We did not fill it properly. Should have been thru the filter port, but instead a hose was simply put into the tub and it created the air bubble. Shame on us. O.K., that said, when attempting to start it up, A Purge Air message was displayed. I tried to burp it by turning the pumps on and off and going from low to hi speed with each pump. Then I tried a plunger to try to purge air by plunging at the filter opening. I turned the heat down as low as possible so the heater would not turn on. No luck with the air purge. The spa ran for about 10-15 minutes and then my main breaker (not the 50 amp GFCI breaker in the spa sub panel) tripped in my main house breaker panel. These are two 60 amp breakers together. They supply the Spa Sub Panel only. I removed the side panels and loosened the connection at the heater, no air escaped. Next were the two connections at pump #1 as well as the small air bleed plugs. Air did hiss out followed by a steady stream of water. Then on to pump #2 and again loosened both connectors at the pump as well as the air bleed plugs. Same result. I reset the twin 60 amp main breakers and started the spa up again. Again, I got the purge air message. Eventually we got the system clear of air, and reset the main breaker again, I got it to run with pump #1 on low speed and the heater heating up the spa. It ran for hours. Water got to about 100 degrees and my wife decided to use the spa. I thought that the situation was cured. She increased the pump speed and turned on pump #2 and after about 10 minutes of running like it should, the main breaker again tripped. Not the GFCI, just the main breaker. I have checked the heater element for a short with my continuity meter and there is none. I looked into the control panel for anything burned or broken and it looks like the day it was delivered. No odors of burning or any visible damage. The heater has two sensors on it. One at each end. The sensors are actually is screwed into the heater tube. (On my old "Master Spa" the sensor simply laid on top of the heater tube under a clip) The wires for each sensor are securely plugged into the control board. So with the air purged and the spa running for hours and only tripping the main breaker when the pumps run on hi and the heater is working, I'm stumped. The spa is still under warranty and if it is a covered thing, no problem. If it's not a covered item, then I'm looking at $$$ for a service call and possible fix. Nothing has changed in any part of the electrical supply. So it's worked well since it was installed in May of 2016. Any ideas what could be causing these issues? Thanks, Keats Phoenix. Update: 3/10/19. P.M. We just ran. a series of tests on the spa. Running the pump(s) at various speeds and combinations. Pump #1 Low speed ran as it should have. 15 minutes and then it shut off as designed. Breaker did not trip. Pump #1 High speed, same thing.Breaker did not trip. Pump#1 Low and Pump #2 Low, ran fine and shut off as designed. Breaker did not trip. Pump #1 Low and Pump #2 High, Ran as it should and shut off as designed after 15 minutes. Breaker did not trip. Pump #1 High and Pump #2 High, ran only 13 minutes and then tripped the main breaker. So running both of these pumps on HIGH caused the breaker to trip, shutting down the entire spa and making it necessary to reset the main breaker at the main breaker box.

19 July 2011 I know that this topic is old but I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I was searching the forum for this problem trying to figure out how my pressure dropped from 14 lbs to zero pounds in one day. I had just replaced the filter tank top cause it split open across the top and that caused the motor to burn out. So I put a rebuilt motor on the pump and got my DE added after cleaning the grids and the inside of the filter tank. That was Saturday the 16th. The pressure went to 14 pounds and the Hayward Navigator ran like it was new. It actually climbed the pool walls and it had not done that in about 6 years. The pool cleaned up beautifully. Sunday I went out to start the filter manually and I only got about 1 pound of pressure. Hmmm? When I put the Navigator in, it went up another pound but that was all. I fiddled with it on Monday trying various valve positions but nothing helped. I started early today and did a through back wash and then added in DE and it still read about 1 pound. I pulled the motor to check the impeller for obstructions and found none. I reinstalled the motor and tried it again. Still zero to 1 pound. That's when I read the posts on this forum. I did have air bubbles coming out of the pool returns ( 2 of the 4 only) however I've had air bubbles for a number of years. So back to pulling the motor and rechecking it. I double checked the large "O" ring at the pump housing and it was OK. So I got out the silicone pool lube and after cleaning all the surfaces, I greased the heck out of them. I took the Jandy valve in front of the pump housing apart and cleaned it and re-lubed the "O" rings and the inside of the Jandy housing. All in all, if it had any chance of moving, it got lubed. I reinstalled everything and crossed my fingers and turned on the pump. It went up to around 5 pounds. I then switched the Jandy valve to the Navigator inlet and the pressure went up to about 12/13 pounds. Finally... So I adjusted the valve and had the Navigator running fast again and the pressure settled at 10 pounds. I believe that I was sucking air around the pump housing and the top of the skimmer basket at the front of the pump housing as well as the Jandy valve. Next time I get to the pool store, I'll get replacement "O" rings for the skimmer top and the parts needed to rebuild the Jandy valve. Naturally this had to happen now when we're in the middle of the Monsoon in Phoenix. The humidity is terrible and you simply melt when your out in the sun. If this was back in the beginning of the year, it would have been a lot easier.. I know that my wife loves the pool and for that reason alone I had it built. If it were up to me, I'd donate it to Goodwill if they'd take it away. It seems like I'm repairing something or other every week. I've replaced the tank top, motor, pump impeller and all the other pump parts, skimmer basket, skimmer top, "O" rings, auto fill valve for the water level, the salt cells on the original salt system (Ecomatic) and changed the entire salt system to a Pool Pilot as well as a number of Pool Pilot salt cells and flow valves and manifolds. I'm beginning to wonder if I have any of the original pool left after only 10 years? I thought having a boat was a hole in the water that you throw money into. I think that it's actually a hole in the ground filled with water that you throw money into that's more expensive.. Just my 2 cents.. Keats Arizona.

I cut it with a key hole saw and a hot knife. Chip it out, pry it out, whatever it takes. Once you get going it comes fast. As your cutting and get the feel for it you can easiely tell the difference between PVC and foam. Thanks, I've been doing that. Just wanted something a bit easier. Keats

18 June 11 (Happy Father's Day tomorrow everyone) I wrote a lengthy message a few weeks ago about my spa having a GFCI breaker tripping problem. After lots of tests and digging into the control panel, I isolated the problem to my heater. As soon as I completely disconnected the heater assembly, the spa ran and no breakers tripped. So I buttoned it up and had out of town guests in for a few days and now everyone's gone and I'm back to fixing the spa. I removed the heater assembly from below the spa control box today. Quite a job to say the least. I've got it sitting here on my desk and it's a Balboa model # 58015. It's 15" long and the I.D. is just slightly better than 2". However the label on the heater reads as follows. Htr 5.5KW 15" 1-1/2" 825 INCLY. From my searches on line, this is a 2" heater. I do not know why it reads 1-1/2" on the label. The replacement should be a #50096. I'm guessing that this is the new number for the Balboa? It should come with the pressure switch on the end. So now my newest concern. I have a leak. It's not huge but is has been going on for some time now. Water shows up under the spa and runs along the bottom edges and is staining my "Kool Deck" a nice shade of green. So now with the side panels off and the underside of the spa exposed, how do I remove the spray on foam insulation to allow me to inspect the various suspect jets from the back side. Master Spa sprayed everything with a 2-3" thick insulation and we've been picking at it with various tools trying to remove it. This is a real pain in the butt. Does anyone know of a solvent that might dissolve this spray on foam insulation? This is the same crap that builders spray into wall crevices before applying new drywall. "This Old House" uses it all the time. This foam is a plastic material so it must be like other plastics in that it will melt. I've tried Mineral Spirits and Acetone and neither worked. I'm reluctant to try heat because the jets are plastic and I sure dont want to damage them. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. I'm also open to suggestions for where to buy a replacement heater assembly without having to get a mortgage to pay for it.. Thanks for taking the time to read this and have a great day. I'd post some photos if I knew how to do that. Hint Hint.. Keats Phoenix

30 May 11 Memorial Day ( Thanks to all of our Veterans for your service to our country) Hooray!!! I got it up and running. I disconnected the wires from the circuit board fingers #1&3 that run from the heater terminals and tried it again. I put my original transformer back into the box first. So I threw the breaker and sure enough the 1/15th H.P. circulating pump came on. Wow... I pushed the top control panel button for the jets and sure enough, they started right up. I tried all settings for all the pumps and each ran at low and high speed as designed. I was in heaven. Then I threw the breaker and put the control panel cover back on and threw the breaker again. Nothing happened. All I got was a message reading "Flow Sensor Call for Service". So back to the internet and I found a blog msg. that suggested disconnecting the flow sensor from the flow switch for a test. I went back to the control panel and pulled the very small two wire flow sensor connector at the circuit board. It's located at the top of the board and it's kind of tight getting my fingers in there. So I threw the GFCI breaker again and it started right up like before. I still get the Flow Sensor message, but it's running anyway. I now have time to shop around for a replacement heater. Living in Phoenix, I really don't have need for a heater until maybe October. Normally the ambient temperature causes the spa water to reach about 105/108 degrees and the cover keeps the temp in. So here's my suggestion. Do not be afraid to try the repair yourself. Just take care to always disconnect any electrical power before you open anything up. Throw the main breaker as well as the GFCI spa breaker just to be sure.. Take a lot of photos. All from various angles. That way you can get everything back to where it was to begin with. Try eliminating various functions one at a time and perhaps you'll solve it right away. Don't rely on a reading from an electrical meter. Mine did not show any problems. No shorts, or other faults but the heater was still bad enough to cause a total shut down. I suppose that disconnecting each device, IE: Pumps, light, Heater, etc. really gets to the heart of the problem. I guess that I've saved myself at least $100.00 just for a "Show Up" by a spa technician. Last time I had a tech out, he agreed with me that I do have a small leak at one of the jets (not sure which one, they're all sprayed with foam so I can't see the back of them.) and then he charged me $60.00 for the visit. He did not fix anything. All I got was an estimate of $1,000.00 to drain the spa, and turn it on it's side to allow access to all of the plumbing to see where the leak was and then a possible additional charge for any parts I might need. Of course this included putting it back in place. It's less expensive to just add water as needed for now... I hope that this message helps someone else in the future and when I replace the heater, I'll post again. Keats

Thanks, I'm going to do that right now. I'l post my results. Fingers crossed. Thanks for the reply.. Keats

29 May 11 My Master Spa (LS850) just started to have problems. A few years ago I replaced the 50 Amp GFCI breaker for the spa that I bought new in 2001. Everything was going well until a couple days ago. The breaker tripped again and would not reset. I checked the main service panel and decided that I was going to replace the breaker (not gfci) for the Spa sub panel. No problem. I then tried to reset the spa gfci but it tripped almost instantly. I got a new GFCI breaker @ the H.D. store that was already in a "Spa Panel". That saved a lot of dough. I don't know why the breaker alone costs almost twice what it costs if it's included in a Spa Panel already?? Anyway, I replaced it and yes I know it's installed properly. I have a neutral(White) coming from the spa as well as two hots (both Black) and a Ground (Green). I ran the spa's white neutral into the GFCI and the pig tail white from the GFCI to the neutral bus bar. The Service panel neutral White is also attached to the neutral bus bar. It still tripped. So I pulled the GFCI and tried a non GFCI breaker in it's place to test the spa. The spa ran like new. I put the GFCI back in and it tripped immediately. I have to assume that there is a fault but it's not a major fault otherwise a regular breaker should trip too. So now it's into the spa's control box and inspecting for broken wires etc. Nothing wrong anywhere. I disconnected each plug from the control panel to the various motors for the pumps one at a time but it kept tripping non the less. I removed the transformer (Balboa 30270-2) and checked it for ohms. I got a good reading between the primarys (73.2 ohms) and only got 0.0 between the Brown and Red secondary contacts. They should be .4 to . 9 ohms. I got 0.1 between the Yellow and the Red and 0.1 between the Brown and Yellow contacts. They should also read .4 to .9 ohms as well. So maybe a bad transformer? I disconnected the leads going to the two heater posts and checked for continuity between the posts. Very good continuity. I checked for a short between each heater post and the control panel (they are insulated with ceramic) and got no continuity so the was nothing going to ground at the heater. I tried the breaker again with the transformer disconnected and it did NOT trip. That just means that the power going to the spa is not at fault. It has to be after it gets to the printed circuit board. I'm thinking that I should try disconnecting the heater leads and trying it that way. If it does not trip, then it's the heater element. I'm at my wits end. I can't think of anything else I could try. I really hate to call in a technician unless it's the last resort. I do not want to simply replace components till it runs again. I'm open to suggestions. Any help would be greatly appreciated... Keats Arizona

10 Apr 08 A.M. I learned that I have a very small water leak in my Master Spa Lgacy 850 above ground spa. I've had it since January 2001 and till now no leaks. Other problems were fixed under warranty but now the warranty is up on everything except the acrylic shell itself. I turned off the power and waited to see if the leak continued without the pumps running. There was a small puddle of water under the rear of the spa (opposite the control panel side) and I used rags to mop it up. I could see that a very small leak was still happening. It's comming from under an area where there are two small jets in the lower portion of the tub foot well. There are also two return ports(?) next to the jets. I took some photos of this leak. Is it possible that a gasket of some sort is bad on a jet or a return port? I've never had any of the jets out and I'm nor sure how to get them out. My contact with Master Spa was a total waste of time. All they want to do is tell you to call one of their distributers. That can be a very expensive. Has anybody else had a similar problem to this one? Any tips or clues on how to fix it? Does anyone have any idea what a professional repair should run. Approximate $$ ? Keats Arizona --------------------------------------------------------------------------------