Bleach Alergy?

[OttawaGreg]

Is it possible to have a skin allergic reaction to bleach but have no problem with any of the chlorine's? I can't imagine it is possible but I'm getting some little red itchies from the tub. The water is perfect.. so it's not a containment.

Greg

[Dr. Spa]

Unlikely.

However, your definition of perfect, my be a bacteria's definition of a breading ground.

[chem geek]

It's always possible that the brand of bleach you are using is adding something that is specifically irritating to you, but more likely it's something else. You could try a different brand of bleach or could even try the Dichlor-only method if you really think it's just bleach, but with Dichlor-only you'll have to change the water more frequently and may need to shock on occasion to keep the water clear (and you'll be at greater risk of hot tub itch after a month or two).

As Dr. Spa mentioned, you might have bacteria in the spa, most likely if the chlorine level got too low for too long. Look at this link to see if you can determine whether you have a rash caused by a chemical reaction or one caused by a bacterial infection. It might also be related to the temperature of the water though you'd expect that to show up earlier and not just now.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Another alternative to bleach is lithium hypochlorite. It's a bit expensive, but at the amounts used for a hot tub, it shouldn't be too bad.

Can you post a full set of chemical readings, including cyanuric acid?

Free Chlorine

Combined Chlorine

pH

Total Alkalinity

Calcium

Cyanuric

Temperature

Are you using MPS or dry acid (Sodium bisulfate)?

[OttawaGreg]

Unlikely.

However, your definition of perfect, my be a bacteria's definition of a breading ground.

The water has been dumped, tub scrubbed and refiledl. CH brought to 150, then TA brought up to 90 and pH went straight (on it's own) to 7.5. That is what I call perfect. A little borax and the water is smooth as silk.

Unfortunately, my now dry itchy skin doesn't like the heat.. or the previously used bleach method has ruined it.

Greg

[Dr. Spa]

You may not be sensitive to the chlorine at all, but simply reacting to the natural drying effect of soaking in hot water. Google, grovers disease

[chem geek]

Greg, do you have the chlorine drop low before you soak, say to 1-2 ppm FC, and then add enough Dichlor/bleach after the soak to still have measurable FC before your next soak? Or do you soak with a higher level of chlorine such as 4 ppm or more?

As was noted before, it's unlikely to be the bleach since you start out with Dichlor to get the CYA up first. The borates (boric acid) is the other different factor though only concentrated boric acid has been known to irritate non-intact skin.

[waterbear]

Another alternative to bleach is lithium hypochlorite. It's a bit expensive, but at the amounts used for a hot tub, it shouldn't be too bad.

Functionally, there would be no difference between using bleach (sodium hypochlorite) and and lithium hypochlorite Once in the water both would form hypochlorous acid and hypochlorite ions. The sodium and lithiium ions in the water would be immaterial and have no effect on skin irritation. The only difference would be to your wallet since Lithium Hypo is MUCH more expensive than bleach!

Without a full set of test results it's really hard to say whether it's chemical or bacterial. "perfect' is not a water parameter measurement. We need actual numbers!

I have my money on either bacterial or pH.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Waterbear, I agree. My comment was primarily in response to chem geek's suggestion of using dichlor only as an alternative to bleach. Going dichlor only would quickly raise the cyanuric acid level to unworkable levels.

If the poster didn't want to use bleach for some reason, then I think that lithium is the only other viable alternative.

Greg, I don't think that the bleach should be causing you any problems, and I don't think that lithium would give you any better results. You say that you recently drained and refilled.

What was the reason for the drain and refill?

What were your chemical readings before draining?

Did you clean the filters? If yes, how?

Was the water in good condition, or were you having problems?

Were you experiencing any problems before the drain and refill?

Is anyone else experiencing any problems?

Are you using MPS or dry acid (Sodium bisulfate)?

Are you still using trichlor tabs in a feeder?

It's possible that your tub has become contaminated with a bacterial biofilm. You might need to do a decontamination procedure.

[chem geek]

I think it very unlikely to be the bleach, but in case something like the sodium polyacrylate additive that Clorox uses or who knows what that might be in other bleaches, it was just something to try. If the problem persists with Dichlor or lithium hypochlorite, it would at least eliminate bleach from being the likely culprit.

If non-chlorine shock (MPS) is being used, then that's more likely to be an issue, if this issue is chemical, as it is known that it can be irritating to some.

[OttawaGreg]

I think it very unlikely to be the bleach, but in case something like the sodium polyacrylate additive that Clorox uses or who knows what that might be in other bleaches, it was just something to try. If the problem persists with Dichlor or lithium hypochlorite, it would at least eliminate bleach from being the likely culprit.

If non-chlorine shock (MPS) is being used, then that's more likely to be an issue, if this issue is chemical, as it is known that it can be irritating to some.

I ran a test last night. After working out at the gym and taking a long hot shower the itchies were worse then usual.. so I think it's a skin problem with heat. Great.. now that I finally own a hottub. Like I said i've drained and refilled. Used dychlor then tabs (tricholr). I'll not add any bleach for a few weeks then take a dip.. but I think the heat is simply the problem. I will see..\

thanks for all the replies. BTW, I had not been adding MPS, just bleach and borax to raise pH when needed. hmmm maybe the borax has something....

Greg

[quantumchromodynamics]

To help determine if this is heat related, or not, try taking an extended soak at a lower temperature. Choose a temperature that you feel is comfortable without being hot. If the problem persists, then it is not related to the heat.

If the problem does not reoccur, then it could be the heat, or you might have just oxidized all of the contaminants. If there is no adverse reaction at a lower temperature, raise the temp back up to normal/hot and see if the problem reoccurs.

[BigDfromTN]

You may look up Eczema as well. Symptoms are a little different but treatment is much the same.

I have developed this. After much of the same things you are going through and searching I came to this conclusion. I find that when it breaks out a steriod cream will heal it. BUT if I use a Moisturizing lotion on a daily (even 2x day is better) it keeps it in check most of the time.

[OttawaGreg]

You may look up Eczema as well. Symptoms are a little different but treatment is much the same.

I have developed this. After much of the same things you are going through and searching I came to this conclusion. I find that when it breaks out a steriod cream will heal it. BUT if I use a Moisturizing lotion on a daily (even 2x day is better) it keeps it in check most of the time.

Yes, I believe it is (also) eczema on my hands and feet. Very dry at times and sensitive to hot water. So are you still able to use your tub?

I've yet to be 100% clear of any itchies or dryness but tried the tub the other day and even after showering and applying oil I had a rough next day.

I believe the root cause is gluten intolerance.. but that's not been proven yet. OK, we are now way off topic...

Greg

[eddiek2000]

Well, I hate to raise this topic from the dead but I have a Clorox allergy. I tried eliminating everything and it has come down to the clorox. If I use di or tri chlor, I do not have an issue. But as soon as I introduce the clorox, my rash gets irritated. I eliminated everything except the Bleach and foamout. Last night I used foam out and I had no reaction, so it must be something in the clorox. I really like that method, but it does not like me. Are there any other bleaches to try?

Some background:

I check my water daily with my Taylor test kit and even brought samples to my local dealer. She only had me raise the alkalinity a bit (80-120), but that didn't help. The chlorine level has NEVER dropped to 0. The bather load is low. Usually just me on a daily basis and sometime company every once in a while.

[chem geek]

Well that's interesting and rare and I'm sorry you are having this problem. Clorox does have a small amount of sodium polyacrylate in it so perhaps that's the problem. You can try some off-brand Ultra bleaches as they may not have that ingredient. If that still gives you a problem, then you may just need to use Dichlor-only and change the water more frequently. Or as QCD mentioned earlier in this thread, you could try using lithium hypochlorite instead of bleach -- it's a lot more expensive, but for the quantities used in a spa it may be tolerable.

Adding the bleach would have the pH rise upon addition whereas adding Dichlor wouldn't so it's also possible that the pH was higher and that wasn't good for you, but if you were checking the pH in both cases and it was the same, then it wasn't the pH.

[eddiek2000]

Where do you find lithium hypochlorite? I am curious as to the price differential.

[chem geek]

As shown here, one pound of BioGuard Burn Out 35 costs $6.17 which provides around 120 ppm FC. You can compare this with a 96-ounce jug of 6% bleach that costs around $1.25 an provides 132 ppm FC or with 2 pounds of Dichlor for $12.95 which provides 379 ppm FC. So that's 5.1 cents per FC for lithium hypochlorite, 0.95 cents per FC for bleach, and 3.4 cents per FC for Dichlor (in larger quantities it's less expensive -- closer to 1.4 cents per FC).

[OttawaGreg]

Hi All,

Just an update for those still interested in this topic. I have had a consultation with a dermatologist and he has stated my hot tub is not the cause of my skin condition, but it certainly doesn't help by heating then drying my sensitive skin. I am slated for a skin biopsy test in January which will be definitive to the cause, then I can get medication to remedy my problem. With that I should be able to get all cleared-up and back into the hot tub in X weeks or months. That news has made me happy.. but for now I will be closing the hot tub for the winter ;-(

Greg

BTW my best guess is Dermatitis Herpetiphormis., which is the skin reaction to having an intolerance to gluten (wheat, oats, barley, rye).

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

I also have an issue with bleach, but not any other chlorine, so I am in agreement that there has to be something added to the bleach, like chem geek said, that some people are sensitive to. It took me a long time and many trials of diferent things to figure out it was bleach. it caused a rash that made little blisters that then crusted. it was very itchie. When i first got it it was put off as an allergic reation by the doc, but took much chemical combos, trials ect for me to figure out it was bleach. i was really confused because I have no issue with any other chlorine......to each body its own