Suntouch Solar/pool Pump Problem

[crablover2]

Hi, I'm new to this site but am excited that it exists!!

Last year, POCO installed solar panels to heat our pool, along with a Suntouch pool & spa controller (all in one electronic control that controls the pool pump & the pool sweep). After the solar was installed, we seemed to have all kinds of problems. We've replaced the pool sweep, replaced some values and part on the pool pump.

Intermittently (not often, once every 1-2 months?), the pool pump will turn on but some of the water is not flowing. The spa (attached/feeding to the pool) may empty because no water is going into it, and the return water out of the main pool doesn't seem to be flowing. If you reset the Suntouch, it seems to fix the problem. One time I manually fiddled with the pool basket (it was not full) and it seemed to fix the problem too, though I'm not sure about what happened there. The other day (and this has happened before, I believe), the pool pump was on but no water was flowing anywhere. The pool pump emptied of water(!) and was starting to smoke . Our pump is old, but it was working fine before. However, this overheating warped the basket in the pump & the trap assembly. So now, the seal is definitely not tight and there is air in the system. We have ordered a new trap assembly (our pump has it separated), but I don't know why this problem is happening in the first place. We can call pool experts to come in to try to diagnose the problem (@ $100-$200/hr), but currently because the trap assembly is warped & water is slightly leaking there & there is air in the system, they will probably point to that as the problem, and/or say we need a new pump. However, that is not going to fix the problem, I don't think.

Can anyone hazard a guess as to the problem? My only guess is there is some conflict in scheduling. The Suntouch is suppose to control the pool sweep and solar as to not cause problems, but I read somewhere that the pool sweep and the solar are not suppose to be started at the same time, or there is some timing issue between the two that could cause problems. However, since I have no control of when the solar will turn on relative to the pool sweep since the Suntouch controls that, I don't know how to deal with this, if this is the problem. It's an intermittent problem that we cannot duplicate. I was wondering if the problem arises because maybe the solar was on, then the pool sweep turned on, then the solar turned off for some reason (overcast?) and then the solar tried to turn back on while the pool sweep was still on.

Right now we are running the solar (with slight leak in the pool pump, air definitely in the system) without turning on the pool sweep at all. So far there is no problem. Oh, is there a problem with doing this w/ a leak/air in the system?

Thanks for all the help & insights you can provide!

[Pool Clown]

Try something simple. See if the weir(door), in the skimmer, moves freely from all the way flat to all the way up (vertical). If it sticks (against the sides) it can keep water from entering the skimmer properly, and ultimately starve the pump of water.

The Sun touch should be disabling the cleaner pump for about 5 min when the solar cycles on.

If your pump got hot enough to deform the pot basket, it probably needs to be re plumbed as well as the seal replaced.

Running the pump with an air leak really depends on how bad the leak is, and if it drains the water out of the pump when it is off. If the leak drains out the pump over night, and has a problem priming in the morning, i wouldn't run it unless you are there every morning to baby sit it to make sure it primes (not very practical).

[crablover2]

Thanks for your info. The weir does not seem to have any sticking issues. The trap/basket is deformed and we are replacing the entire trap because it's not sealing like it should since it's warped. The current leak is not bad. The pump primes every morning, and the water level is high, it just has a big air bubble in it because of the leak.

I found out that POCO Solar (the ones who installed our solar panels and the Suntouch Controller) did not set up our pool sweep as the "cleaner" in the Suntouch controls. I fixed that. Pentair CSR helped me discover this, and fix it.

Try something simple. See if the weir(door), in the skimmer, moves freely from all the way flat to all the way up (vertical). If it sticks (against the sides) it can keep water from entering the skimmer properly, and ultimately starve the pump of water.

The Sun touch should be disabling the cleaner pump for about 5 min when the solar cycles on.

If your pump got hot enough to deform the pot basket, it probably needs to be re plumbed as well as the seal replaced.

Running the pump with an air leak really depends on how bad the leak is, and if it drains the water out of the pump when it is off. If the leak drains out the pump over night, and has a problem priming in the morning, i wouldn't run it unless you are there every morning to baby sit it to make sure it primes (not very practical).

[Pool Clown]

POCO can be aggravating sometimes.

[crablover2]

OMG, so I fixed the Suntouch program to recognize the pool sweep. Then we had a pool professional replace the entire pool trap assembly. Now there's no gurgling noise or air in the system, and things seem to run well. HOWEVER, now at the end of the day when the pool pump (and solar) turn off, there is a prolonged loud, somewhat screeching noise coming from the roof, I'm assuming it's the solar stuff(?). Can this be "normal"? I never heard this before. I am reluctant to call POCO now since they just keep telling me it's my problem, not their problem, and they would charge me a minimum of $120 for anyone to come out and look at the problem. What can be causing this?

[quantumchromodynamics]

The noise is probably the vacuum breaker. The vacuum breaker closes under pressure and opens under vacuum. This allows the panels to drain when there is no water flow. If the vacuum breaker valve does not open fully, it can make a noise like you are describing.

[crablover2]

The noise is probably the vacuum breaker. The vacuum breaker closes under pressure and opens under vacuum. This allows the panels to drain when there is no water flow. If the vacuum breaker valve does not open fully, it can make a noise like you are describing.

But I am only hearing this noise when the pool pump & solar are turning off. It's loud for a bit, then it goes away. Is that indicative of a vacuum breaker valve not open fully? Wouldn't I hear something while the water is flowing when the pool pump is on if that were the problem? I don't, only when it turns off.

[quantumchromodynamics]

The vacuum breaker is a check valve. When the system is on and under pressure, the valve will be closed.

When the system is turned off, the valve opens to allow air to enter into the panels to allow them to drain. If the valve does not open all of the way, then the air going through the valve can make a whistling or screeching noise.

[crablover2]

The vacuum breaker is a check valve. When the system is on and under pressure, the valve will be closed.

When the system is turned off, the valve opens to allow air to enter into the panels to allow them to drain. If the valve does not open all of the way, then the air going through the valve can make a whistling or screeching noise.

Thanks for being so patient and explaining it again. Duh, I finally get it. If the valve does not open all the way, will it be destructive for the solar pool heating system? Would this be "POCO's fault" that they should come and fix this without charge? The system was installed about a year ago. POCO did a "Spring Startup" when we weren't home, but I doubt they even turned the pool pump on (We had problems with the pool sweep at the time and the pool was very dirty. Their comment: fix pool sweep & clean up the pool). Also, would this account for a gurgling noise that I hear up in the pipes in the morning, before the pool pump turns on? I was hearing this gurgling (like there was water up in the pipes) sporadically. A glub glub here, then sometime later, a glub glub there. However, I heard these noises when my pool trap was warped, so it might be related to that. But somehow there was water up in the pipes gurgling here and there when the pool pump was off.

Thanks for all your help!!

[quantumchromodynamics]

If the valve does not open all the way, will it be destructive for the solar pool heating system?

It's important for the valve to operate properly. If it is sticking, then it might leak while under pressure, or it might not allow the panels to drain when the system is off. It should be checked, and repaired or replaced if necessary.

Would this be "POCO's fault" that they should come and fix this without charge?

Not necessarily. It depends on exactly what is wrong and what caused the problem. It depends on whether the system was operated properly as specified in the instructions, and the terms of the warranty. It might be defective equipment, improper installation or improper operation and maintenance.

Also, would this account for a gurgling noise that I hear up in the pipes in the morning, before the pool pump turns on? I was hearing this gurgling (like there was water up in the pipes) sporadically.

Yes, it could be. If the water is not draining fully, then it could act as you are describing.

Note: I am not 100 % sure that it is definitely the vacuum breaker, but I do think that it probably is. The system should be inspected and repaired if necessary.

[crablover2]

Would this be "POCO's fault" that they should come and fix this without charge?

Not necessarily. It depends on exactly what is wrong and what caused the problem. It depends on whether the system was operated properly as specified in the instructions, and the terms of the warranty. It might be defective equipment, improper installation or improper operation and maintenance.

Well, seeing as how POCO did the installation of the solar panels w/ Suntouch with their equipment & men, and I've only had the system for 1 year, and they did the "winterization" and "spring startup" services as well as setup the schedules for the Suntouch (but didn't set the pool sweep as the "cleaner" in the Suntouch like they should have)...I'd hope something is their fault. Because of this new solar panel system that POCO sold me and installed, I have virtually had to replace every single piece of equipment attached to the pool. And they have been pushing to have me replace the pool pump to a new, variable speed one to save me money (last "old" piece of pool equipment left).

[Pool Clown]

Does the cleaner pump turn off when the solar cycles on? If not, then they should definitely come back to make that right. Tell them that the drain down valve is not working right(noisy) and it wakes your baby every time the solar cycles off.

[crablover2]

WOW, so it happened again. With a new pool pump trap, the pool pump failed to prime and it is completely dry. For the past 2 weeks, the pool sweep is not on at all, has only been manually turned off and on for light cleaning. Could this be related to the valve not opening or closing? How can the pool pump be completely dry like this?

The water does not seem to be getting to the pump...

[Pool Clown]

Do you have a Sta-Rite pump?

[quantumchromodynamics]

Once the pool pumps primes initially, it should stay primed. You might have a suction side air leak, your water level in the pool might be too low, or the solar might be pushing water backwards through the pump when it drains.