Bootstrap Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 So my tub was working fine, drained it, filled it, now it popped the GFCI upon startup. After some research, I discovered that it was the heater. So I purchased an aftermarket heater for it, and now it does not pop the GFCI, but no fricken heat! Whats the deal? I hooked up the ohm meter and got about 11 ohms from the old, and new heater..... I took the coil out of the old heater, and looks like the o-seals were shot to hell so maybe water got past them to trip it out..... I am getting 120v at the heater terminals when its running, with the new heater....I am stumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andob45 Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 So my tub was working fine, drained it, filled it, now it popped the GFCI upon startup. After some research, I discovered that it was the heater. So I purchased an aftermarket heater for it, and now it does not pop the GFCI, but no fricken heat! Whats the deal? I hooked up the ohm meter and got about 11 ohms from the old, and new heater..... I took the coil out of the old heater, and looks like the o-seals were shot to hell so maybe water got past them to trip it out..... I am getting 120v at the heater terminals when its running, with the new heater....I am stumped. are you getting any error messages on the topside? heat indicator light on? Is the spa hooked up for 120 or 220 volts? if its 220 then you have an issue only getting 120 to the heater.did you buy a new heater assembly or just an element? more info would be helpfull to diagnose the problem. if you cracked the ceramic coating on the element posts when installing the element may be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootstrap Posted April 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 So my tub was working fine, drained it, filled it, now it popped the GFCI upon startup. After some research, I discovered that it was the heater. So I purchased an aftermarket heater for it, and now it does not pop the GFCI, but no fricken heat! Whats the deal? I hooked up the ohm meter and got about 11 ohms from the old, and new heater..... I took the coil out of the old heater, and looks like the o-seals were shot to hell so maybe water got past them to trip it out..... I am getting 120v at the heater terminals when its running, with the new heater....I am stumped. are you getting any error messages on the topside? heat indicator light on? Is the spa hooked up for 120 or 220 volts? if its 220 then you have an issue only getting 120 to the heater.did you buy a new heater assembly or just an element? more info would be helpfull to diagnose the problem. if you cracked the ceramic coating on the element posts when installing the element may be bad. I don't have any error messages, the heat indicator is on. It is hooked up for 220v. I was careful in my installation, so I dont believe i cracked the ceramic coating.... Everything seems right with it....exept for the 120v to the heater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andob45 Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 If the spa is hooked up 220 you shoud be getting 220 at the heater. you need to start tracing your voltage, start with incoming power to the spa make sure it is right. something is going on. are you testing across both heater terminals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootstrap Posted April 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 If the spa is hooked up 220 you shoud be getting 220 at the heater. you need to start tracing your voltage, start with incoming power to the spa make sure it is right. something is going on. are you testing across both heater terminals? The balboa heater has 2 terminals on it. the new one I recieved is the same, but for some reason it has 2 grounding lugs on it too. I hooked my multi meter from each terminal and then to common ground. got 120v from each. http://www.cedartubs.com/ebayphotos/1172641160M7_tube_right.jpg copy and paste the above link. This is the exact heater I have. If I run from either terminal to a neutral ground, I was getting 120v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettnolan Posted April 30, 2010 Report Share Posted April 30, 2010 Test across the terminals on the heater. One probe on one terminal, one on the other. You should have 240v. If not, go back to incoming power. Test voltage across white/black (120v), white/red(120v), then black/red (240v). If you don't get these readings you have something wrong with the incoming power, possibly a bad breaker. One thing to check, though...make sure you turn the breaker ALL THE WAY OFF, then turn it back on and test your voltage again. Sometimes a breaker kind of gets "stuck" in the middle, didn't get completely reset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootstrap Posted May 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 Test across the terminals on the heater. One probe on one terminal, one on the other. You should have 240v. If not, go back to incoming power. Test voltage across white/black (120v), white/red(120v), then black/red (240v). If you don't get these readings you have something wrong with the incoming power, possibly a bad breaker. One thing to check, though...make sure you turn the breaker ALL THE WAY OFF, then turn it back on and test your voltage again. Sometimes a breaker kind of gets "stuck" in the middle, didn't get completely reset. When I test from 1 terminal, to a ground I get 120. When I test from the other, same. When I test from terminal to terminal on the heater, I got nothing. Comming in on the 240, when I run from black to white, 120, red to white, 120, red to black, 240. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa God Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 OK so terminal to terminal you get no voltage which means your heater is not energizing... if the heater light is on then this is not good as it indicates that the system is calling for heat but the heater relay is not clicking over or there is no power getting to the heater relay... if this is not a fuse then it sounds like your original diagnosis my have been incorrect or possibly you had a power surge and multiple systems were damaged... check the fuses and check the incoming power to TB1 (where the power connects to the board) I dont mean to be funny but that fact that you were incorrectly checking the voltage (it is only the voltage across the terminals that indicates the potential difference on the heater)means i have to recommend that you only do these tests and work on this system if you are a qualified electrician... there now the legal obligation is out of the way... If you indeed have 120V (+-10% on all voltage readings) from L1 to neutral, and 120V from L2 to neutral and 240V from L1 to L2 and there are no blown fuses then it is likely that your board is at fault... frankly if this is the case you are better to buy the entire VS501 retrofit kit (about $450 from me plus shipping) then you have a full 2 year guarantee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootstrap Posted May 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 OK so terminal to terminal you get no voltage which means your heater is not energizing... if the heater light is on then this is not good as it indicates that the system is calling for heat but the heater relay is not clicking over or there is no power getting to the heater relay... if this is not a fuse then it sounds like your original diagnosis my have been incorrect or possibly you had a power surge and multiple systems were damaged... check the fuses and check the incoming power to TB1 (where the power connects to the board) I dont mean to be funny but that fact that you were incorrectly checking the voltage (it is only the voltage across the terminals that indicates the potential difference on the heater)means i have to recommend that you only do these tests and work on this system if you are a qualified electrician... there now the legal obligation is out of the way... If you indeed have 120V (+-10% on all voltage readings) from L1 to neutral, and 120V from L2 to neutral and 240V from L1 to L2 and there are no blown fuses then it is likely that your board is at fault... frankly if this is the case you are better to buy the entire VS501 retrofit kit (about $450 from me plus shipping) then you have a full 2 year guarantee... I can hear the heater relay clicking over. uhm..... My thoughts are I might have a faulty heater because when the relay clicks on, I get voltage going to the heater. Measured from either heater terminal to a ground I get 120v. Measure from terminal to terminal I have nothing. Everything checks out on the board(fuses, incoming power...everything). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_bilton Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 OK so terminal to terminal you get no voltage which means your heater is not energizing... if the heater light is on then this is not good as it indicates that the system is calling for heat but the heater relay is not clicking over or there is no power getting to the heater relay... if this is not a fuse then it sounds like your original diagnosis my have been incorrect or possibly you had a power surge and multiple systems were damaged... check the fuses and check the incoming power to TB1 (where the power connects to the board) I dont mean to be funny but that fact that you were incorrectly checking the voltage (it is only the voltage across the terminals that indicates the potential difference on the heater)means i have to recommend that you only do these tests and work on this system if you are a qualified electrician... there now the legal obligation is out of the way... If you indeed have 120V (+-10% on all voltage readings) from L1 to neutral, and 120V from L2 to neutral and 240V from L1 to L2 and there are no blown fuses then it is likely that your board is at fault... frankly if this is the case you are better to buy the entire VS501 retrofit kit (about $450 from me plus shipping) then you have a full 2 year guarantee... I can hear the heater relay clicking over. uhm..... My thoughts are I might have a faulty heater because when the relay clicks on, I get voltage going to the heater. Measured from either heater terminal to a ground I get 120v. Measure from terminal to terminal I have nothing. Everything checks out on the board(fuses, incoming power...everything). bad heaters out of the box can happen remove the heater leads and check for continuity at the heater studs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootstrap Posted May 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 OK so terminal to terminal you get no voltage which means your heater is not energizing... if the heater light is on then this is not good as it indicates that the system is calling for heat but the heater relay is not clicking over or there is no power getting to the heater relay... if this is not a fuse then it sounds like your original diagnosis my have been incorrect or possibly you had a power surge and multiple systems were damaged... check the fuses and check the incoming power to TB1 (where the power connects to the board) I dont mean to be funny but that fact that you were incorrectly checking the voltage (it is only the voltage across the terminals that indicates the potential difference on the heater)means i have to recommend that you only do these tests and work on this system if you are a qualified electrician... there now the legal obligation is out of the way... If you indeed have 120V (+-10% on all voltage readings) from L1 to neutral, and 120V from L2 to neutral and 240V from L1 to L2 and there are no blown fuses then it is likely that your board is at fault... frankly if this is the case you are better to buy the entire VS501 retrofit kit (about $450 from me plus shipping) then you have a full 2 year guarantee... I can hear the heater relay clicking over. uhm..... My thoughts are I might have a faulty heater because when the relay clicks on, I get voltage going to the heater. Measured from either heater terminal to a ground I get 120v. Measure from terminal to terminal I have nothing. Everything checks out on the board(fuses, incoming power...everything). bad heaters out of the box can happen remove the heater leads and check for continuity at the heater studs What should I expect for continuity? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_bilton Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 OK so terminal to terminal you get no voltage which means your heater is not energizing... if the heater light is on then this is not good as it indicates that the system is calling for heat but the heater relay is not clicking over or there is no power getting to the heater relay... if this is not a fuse then it sounds like your original diagnosis my have been incorrect or possibly you had a power surge and multiple systems were damaged... check the fuses and check the incoming power to TB1 (where the power connects to the board) I dont mean to be funny but that fact that you were incorrectly checking the voltage (it is only the voltage across the terminals that indicates the potential difference on the heater)means i have to recommend that you only do these tests and work on this system if you are a qualified electrician... there now the legal obligation is out of the way... If you indeed have 120V (+-10% on all voltage readings) from L1 to neutral, and 120V from L2 to neutral and 240V from L1 to L2 and there are no blown fuses then it is likely that your board is at fault... frankly if this is the case you are better to buy the entire VS501 retrofit kit (about $450 from me plus shipping) then you have a full 2 year guarantee... I can hear the heater relay clicking over. uhm..... My thoughts are I might have a faulty heater because when the relay clicks on, I get voltage going to the heater. Measured from either heater terminal to a ground I get 120v. Measure from terminal to terminal I have nothing. Everything checks out on the board(fuses, incoming power...everything). bad heaters out of the box can happen remove the heater leads and check for continuity at the heater studs What should I expect for continuity? thanks. you should get 000 on your multi-meter set at 200k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootstrap Posted May 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 OK so terminal to terminal you get no voltage which means your heater is not energizing... if the heater light is on then this is not good as it indicates that the system is calling for heat but the heater relay is not clicking over or there is no power getting to the heater relay... if this is not a fuse then it sounds like your original diagnosis my have been incorrect or possibly you had a power surge and multiple systems were damaged... check the fuses and check the incoming power to TB1 (where the power connects to the board) I dont mean to be funny but that fact that you were incorrectly checking the voltage (it is only the voltage across the terminals that indicates the potential difference on the heater)means i have to recommend that you only do these tests and work on this system if you are a qualified electrician... there now the legal obligation is out of the way... If you indeed have 120V (+-10% on all voltage readings) from L1 to neutral, and 120V from L2 to neutral and 240V from L1 to L2 and there are no blown fuses then it is likely that your board is at fault... frankly if this is the case you are better to buy the entire VS501 retrofit kit (about $450 from me plus shipping) then you have a full 2 year guarantee... I can hear the heater relay clicking over. uhm..... My thoughts are I might have a faulty heater because when the relay clicks on, I get voltage going to the heater. Measured from either heater terminal to a ground I get 120v. Measure from terminal to terminal I have nothing. Everything checks out on the board(fuses, incoming power...everything). bad heaters out of the box can happen remove the heater leads and check for continuity at the heater studs What should I expect for continuity? thanks. you should get 000 on your multi-meter set at 200k I tested it, and I am getting 00.0 on the heater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa God Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 If you are not getting 220volts across the core the heater is not getting voltage... the fact that you have 110V between one terminal and neutral and or ground means nothing because the core is not wired to one line and neutral it is wired to the two lines L1 and L2... I think your original heater was good continuity wise and either leaking at the seals (hence the gfci trip) or maybe just condensation form the drain and re-fill or spilled water... I think it has been your board all along or the board and heater at the same time. I am pretty sure your problem is the board, (assuming it is wired correctly for 220V the jumpers are set right and the fuses are all good)... and you are much better to replace the whole system than the board because the price is similar and with a system replacement you get a warranty... Go to e-bay and buy the VS501Z retrofit kit... there are lots of sellers there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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