Why Not Bromine Then Bleach

[trigear]

We have a description of dichlor then bleach and a standard bromine system. Why not establish your bromine rerseve then use bleach as an oxidizer? It would be cheaper than buying bromine tablets.

[chem geek]

You could certainly do that, but it sort of defeats the purpose of going with bromine in the first place which is to use bromine tabs in a feeder so that you don't have to add sanitizer every day or so. That is, the main reason for using bromine is the convenience it provides. BromideBank-then-Bleach is no different in convenience than Dichlor-then-Bleach.

[duglynukem]

I have changed over to a Bromine system recently. I established a "bank" with sodium bromide and use a floater. I have been using a cup of bleach weekly to shock the tub. Any issues with that? Regards, doug

[chem geek]

Nope. That's fine. The chlorine shock will just raise the bromine level. If you are using sufficient levels of bromine consistently, it may not be necessary. It depends on whether your bromine floater is able to keep up with bather load. If you add some bleach after a soak and just use the floater to maintain bromine during extended times between soaks, then that would work.

[Laenini]

Nope. That's fine. The chlorine shock will just raise the bromine level. If you are using sufficient levels of bromine consistently, it may not be necessary. It depends on whether your bromine floater is able to keep up with bather load. If you add some bleach after a soak and just use the floater to maintain bromine during extended times between soaks, then that would work.

This is pretty much what I have been doing with my tub. After soaks we use a little bleach but rely upon the bromine floater to keep levels up between soaks. Over this winter when we would sometimes go a week or more without actually soaking in the tub, it was nice to know that little bromine floater was out there doing its job!

[duglynukem]

Nope. That's fine. The chlorine shock will just raise the bromine level. If you are using sufficient levels of bromine consistently, it may not be necessary. It depends on whether your bromine floater is able to keep up with bather load. If you add some bleach after a soak and just use the floater to maintain bromine during extended times between soaks, then that would work.

It may not be necessary to shock the tub weekly?

[chem geek]

It might not be necessary. We know that with Dichlor-then-bleach there are some people who don't shock much at all -- they just keep up with the bather load by adding sufficient chlorine after each soak. For Dichlor-only users, they tend to shock weekly since this seems to be needed after the first month or so since the buildup of CYA slows down chlorine oxidation so that a shock may be needed.

We don't know how well bromine takes care of oxidizing bather waste and keeping water clear by itself at normal levels if you were to add bleach or MPS after a soak to take care of the bather load. You might need to shock weekly, or perhaps you might not. You could see how it goes without and then just start shocking again if you find the water quality isn't sufficient. At any rate, it is unlikely that if you use the tub a lot and are only using a floating feeder that the bromine is handling the bather waste sufficiently so if you are shocking weekly to make up for not adding extra chlorine or MPS after each soak, then that's a different story.

[duglynukem]

It might not be necessary. We know that with Dichlor-then-bleach there are some people who don't shock much at all -- they just keep up with the bather load by adding sufficient chlorine after each soak. For Dichlor-only users, they tend to shock weekly since this seems to be needed after the first month or so since the buildup of CYA slows down chlorine oxidation so that a shock may be needed.

We don't know how well bromine takes care of oxidizing bather waste and keeping water clear by itself at normal levels if you were to add bleach or MPS after a soak to take care of the bather load. You might need to shock weekly, or perhaps you might not. You could see how it goes without and then just start shocking again if you find the water quality isn't sufficient. At any rate, it is unlikely that if you use the tub a lot and are only using a floating feeder that the bromine is handling the bather waste sufficiently so if you are shocking weekly to make up for not adding extra chlorine or MPS after each soak, then that's a different story.

That is exactly what I have been doing. Right now I'm in the trial and error phase. Thanks...

[trigear]

It might not be necessary. We know that with Dichlor-then-bleach there are some people who don't shock much at all -- they just keep up with the bather load by adding sufficient chlorine after each soak. For Dichlor-only users, they tend to shock weekly since this seems to be needed after the first month or so since the buildup of CYA slows down chlorine oxidation so that a shock may be needed.

We don't know how well bromine takes care of oxidizing bather waste and keeping water clear by itself at normal levels if you were to add bleach or MPS after a soak to take care of the bather load. You might need to shock weekly, or perhaps you might not. You could see how it goes without and then just start shocking again if you find the water quality isn't sufficient. At any rate, it is unlikely that if you use the tub a lot and are only using a floating feeder that the bromine is handling the bather waste sufficiently so if you are shocking weekly to make up for not adding extra chlorine or MPS after each soak, then that's a different story.

That is exactly what I have been doing. Right now I'm in the trial and error phase. Thanks...

I am going to try the bromine and bleach at the next water change. Using a floater means your bromine levels should never go to zero. This solves the biggest problem with di-chlor then bleach doesn't it.

[chem geek]

Yes, that is true.

[paxthar]

Ok so if I am understanding this thread I could use this regime to care for my spa. I have an 2000 Arctic Cub with Peak Ozone in it that the Arctic Dealer said appeared to be working. So I have been just using Peak Boost for sanitizing and that is it. A capful and a bit with a new fill, and then a 1/3 to 3/4 a capful after each soak depending on bather load. As for shocking I just have been throwing in a capful or so of the Peak Boost. Should I be maybe throwing in bleach instead of the Peak Boost to shock the tub? If I am understanding this right the bleach, which is 6% chlorine, activates the bromine that is banked in the water. It frees up the bromine, like the ozone is doing also. Am I getting this right?? So would it be beneficial for me to shock with bleach instead of just adding more Peak Boost.

Another question, is there a way to tell the difference between chlorine tabs and bromine tabs? Is there a different smell or something. My tub came with a floater and a bunch of tabs but I don't know if they are chlorine tabs or bromine tabs.

Thanks for any reply's in advance.

[paxthar]

Forgot to add, if I should switch to bleach, what bleach should I use, or should I buy chlorine that is meant for a pool?

Thanks again...

[chem geek]

According to this link, Peak Boost is a combination of Dichlor with some sodium bromide. The sodium bromide is probably there to make up for any bromine lost to outgassing or carry-out from the water. If you start out with a large enough bromide bank, you shouldn't need to replenish it as you shouldn't be losing very much. So basically, by substituting with bleach, you are really just substituting the Dichlor with bleach. However, you'd need to establish a larger bromide bank after a fresh fill and it doesn't sound like you are doing that -- you can use any of a number of sodium bromide products for that purpose. It's just salt so you could add enough for, say, 100 ppm that should last the duration until your next water change since you shouldn't be losing that much bromine (remember that most of the bromine gets recycled back to bromide to become bromine again when you shock).

The best bleach is Clorox Regular since it is 6% bleach that has the lowest amount of excess lye in it (the pH is around 11.9). Since you don't use very much, you don't need to use chlorinating liquid as would be used in a pool (though many people use bleach in pools, if it's less expensive per FC amount). As for how much to dose, 5 fluid ounces of 6% bleach in 350 gallons would be 7 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) which is almost 16 ppm bromine and enough to handle around one person-hour of soaking if you didn't have an ozonator. Figure that the ozonator is able to handle around half the bather load, so you'd add half the amount of bleach I just described.

In reality, you'd start with the estimate I just gave, but measure your bromine level the next time you get in to soak. If it's too high, then use less bleach; if it's too low, then use more bleach. The chlorine in the bleach activates the bromide to bromine fairly quickly so essentially you only have bromine in your spa, not chlorine.

[paxthar]

Thanks Chem Geek.... So to clarify, cause I am a spa newbie...

Fresh fill with a new filter and add enough Peak Boost to get around 100 ppm, then after every soak add peak boost according to bather load.

And then once a week shock my tub with about 2.5 to 5 fl. oz of Clorox bleach.

In between shocks my ozonator should be taking care of the sanitizing.

After a shock test strip my water and if the bromine is high I've shocked with too much bleach and if it is too low I haven't used enough.

How often should I be testing my water? I find that I am having to use two or three test strips every time I soak because I test it before I get in, then end up having to add peak boost because there is no bromine in the water, and then test the water again to make sure there is at least some bromine in the water.

I am finding all this water balancing and maintenance very confusing and frustrating. It seems there is so many pros and cons to everything that I am starting not to know which way to turn!!

Thanks again for your reply and help.

[paxthar]

Thanks chem geek for that link on Peak Boost, that was good information!!

[mlobitz]

Thanks chem geek for that link on Peak Boost, that was good information!!

My CYA seems to have gone down when I added some fresh water due to evaporation. Should I just hit it with some dichlor to get the CYA back up. I refilled about 6 weeks ago and have been using bleach for about 5 of them.

[polyvue]

Thanks chem geek for that link on Peak Boost, that was good information!!

My CYA seems to have gone down when I added some fresh water due to evaporation. Should I just hit it with some dichlor to get the CYA back up. I refilled about 6 weeks ago and have been using bleach for about 5 of them.

CYA shouldn't go down for this reason. If your testing shows that it has reduced a small amount that's likely due to testing variabliity. DiChlor is a convenient method to increase both CYA and chlorine. The alternative is cyanuric acid granules or liquid conditioner.

[chem geek]

When you say use Peak Boost to get to 100 ppm, I assume you mean cumulatively over time, not all at once. That's OK to do if you want, though I was thinking of you using a one-time sodium bromide product to start with such as Leisure Time Sodium Bromide (Reserve).

In between your shocks, if you don't use the spa every day you should still test the bromine level to make sure the ozonator is regenerating some bromine from the bromide. Otherwise, you'll need to add some bleach to raise the bromine level to keep the spa sanitary.

Once you get into a routine, you'll probably be able to test just once every time before you get in to soak. But that's after you get a feel for how much bleach you need to add to take care of your bather waste and still have a residual of bromine for the next time you get in to soak.

I'd say you have a very good handle of what to do.