Laenini

Have any of you seen the video posted on youtube by "IH8CalSpa"? I believe this guy wrecked his tub by ignoring what appears to me to be obvious metals in his source water and allowing those metals to stain his tub over time, which he then blames on CalSpa. I would love to know what some of our guru's here think happened to this guys tub. Would anyone care to comment? While this guy's tub is shot, maybe we can turn it into a learning experience at least for the folks who frequent this forum. Here is a link to his video: http://youtu.be/3_xKr3jbpJA

Having just went through the spa buying process myself I know how much I would have appreciated some sort of comparision tool like you suggest. I agree though, it might be very difficult to assign a rating value to different features when there isn't necessarily an objective means to assign those values. I suggest instead to look at mearly stating an objective compilation of a tub's features and allow the reader to then weigh out the value of the features themselves based on their unique needs. For example mearly state the composition of the frame (wood, pressure treated wood, steel, etc...). The reader can then decide what is important to them (maybe someone in Minnesota like me might want a steel frame) and the chart then can help them quickly find the tubs that are available with a steel frame. By focusing on objective information (raw, factual information) rather than subjective (opinion or value based information) you'll create a useful chart that is meaningful to all spa shoppers and is free from potential bias. I also suggest that you consider color coding to make the chart clear. For example, standard feature information could be entered in black ink, where optional or upgraded features could be entered using red ink, etc... Good luck with this valuable project!

Thank you LC! I appreciate all of the help you offered during my search! The Bullfrog was a good tub, but somehow it just wasn't the right one for me I guess. I knew as soon as I stepped into the Cantabria that I had found my tub. It spoke to me and it said "take me home!!"

I just thought I would share that my search for a spa had ended! After getting frustrated when despite talking to several D1 dealerships in the Twin Cities I was unable to secure a chance to wet test a tub from their Reflections line, I noticed Dolphin Pool and Spa on the side of the highway as I was heading home from another, unhelpful D1 dealership. I decided to pull over and stop in. Right away I noticed their low key attitude and I liked that. My salesrep, Margo was friendly and helpful. She seemed to answer questions honestly and in a straight forward manner. Since I liked what I saw, I made arrangements to come back the next day to wet test the Cantabria, the largest tub in their luxury line, the Utopia series. So yesterday, with a friend along for the ride, we went to test out the Cantabria. This is a big tub with lots of features. Some key points for me was that I seemed to stay in the lounger and the deep captains seats. Often, I feel like I'm floundering around in tubs, trying not to bounce around like a superball! Caldera was smart in their design and there always seemed to be a place for my feet where I could brace myself gently in place. The jets were vigorous and seemed to hit me in the right places to sooth some of my worst trigger points. Margot gave us an initial orientation to the jets and diverter functions so that we knew how to control the tub, and then left us to enjoy it. She handled that perfectly in that she was helpful but not intrusive. There are a lot of hot tub salesmen in the Twin Cities who could learn from her example how to make a customer happy! After the wet test I talked with her about price. She told me the initial prices they had set for the two Cantabria models they had available without special ordering. I told her which one I was interested in and where I needed the price to be as this tub is being covered on an insurance claim and the insurance company has given me a budget. She excused herself, then came back and said they would accept my price! So I signed papers and wrote a check right then and there. I am now the proud new owner of a Caldera Cantabria with all the bells and whistles! The price Dolphin accepted is a very reasonable price for what is Caldera's flagship, top of the line, luxury tub! At so many dealerships, I would get this uneasy feeling that I was being manipulated and taken advantage of, particularly because I was a woman shopping alone it seemed. At other dealerships when I would try to negotiate with them for a spa in their luxury lines they would act very snooty and direct me to their mid-level line. There was a HotSprings salesman in particular that looked very angry at me when I tried to discuss price on their Grandee tub, and they had it tagged thousands of dollars higher than what I have read on this board is a good, honest price for a new Grandee. I will never forget that man's face! And needless to say I walked out of there and didn't bother to return. If someone is going to be angry that I will not allow myself to be taken advantage of, then I don't need to have anything to do with them. Another dealership didn't want to bargain on their price as they said the State Fair is coming up and they needed their new tubs to bring to the fair, so it wasn't worth it to them to bargain at all. I thought that was an odd way to look at the situation to say the least, especially when the fair is still 6-7 weeks away! At Dolphin, I felt like I was respected, appreciated, and given a good price and an honest deal. They seemed to be happy to treat me well! In fact, Margo described herself to me as a people person who got her job satisfaction from making people happy. Well, she did make me happy, without a doubt! Dolphin not only sold me a spa, but as a pool and spa owner they won my loyalty for purchases for years to come!

Personally, I would give more weight to the age of the spa than to just about any other parameter. The 3 tubs you list are all fairly close together in price. I don't know much about Caldara, but Marquis and D1 are both considered to be high quality tubs. Looking at just those 2 then, it seems well worth the extra $1000 to get the Marquis which is 4 years newer than the D1. This is just my own personal opinion and believe me, there is nothing special about my opinion!

I agree, at 14 years Bullfrog is a company that is here to stay. I believe they have some sort of parent company relationship with Jacuzzi and their CEO has 20 years of history in management with Jacuzzi and Sundance which also points to them being a company that is positioned to succeed. What I meant when I said that their longevity is yet to be proven is this: their marketing cornerstone claim is that Bullfrog owners through mixing and matching their jet packs have an infinately upgradable spa. As the owner's needs change or new jet technology emerges a Bullfrog owner can update their spa through purchasing a $400 jet pack rather than a $10,000 new spa. That sounds like an obvious advantage as it would allow the owner to get many more useful years out of their tub. But that advantage is dependent upon the tub standing up to the test of time over that potential longer lifespan. I don't know if anyone has any numbers regarding what percentage of those first tubs sold 14 years ago are still viable tubs in current use. And since the jet pack design has changed at least twice I believe, I don't know if the owners of those first run tubs from 14 years ago are able to still get jet packs that fit their tub. Personally, I have a degenerative spine disease that is only going to get worse for me as the years pass. Right now most of my pain issues are focused in the upper back and neck region, but with the nature of my disease that could certainly change. So right now I would be inclined to purchase jet packs that address those upper back and neck regions, but who's to say that 5 years from now my lower back might be more painful and I might welcome the chance to purchase new jet packs that target the lower back. The viability of that potential future purchase is the wildcard in this equation that I just don't know how to gauge.

That is sort of my impression. They have themselves priced with the top of the line spas, but they are still the new kid on the block. So long term reliability is still not fully proven. Their product is innovative and to me the greatest selling point is the fact that its infinitely upgradable. As an owner's needs and wants change they can just upgrade jet packs without having to upgrade the whole spa. But that is only really valuable if the whole spa has a long enough functional life that it is worth upgrading jet packs. I also find it somewhat concerning that they have remodeled their jet packs I believe at least twice over their 14 or so years in business, and the different versions of their jet pack designs are not interchangeable. So if one bought a 2012 model tub from them for example, the style of pack in that tub has a completely different hook up and snap in design than the spas coming out of their factory today. If you read their warranty they only guarantee availability of jet packs in your tub's design for 12 months after purchase. So that upgradability of jet packs totally loses its attractiveness if it’s possible that they might quit making your style of pack at any point after the first year. Also, there is no sound system on this tub which obviously isn't a deal breaker to me. But still, it’s a nice feature to have just the same and at that price, I kind of feel like it should have that feature. What I am mostly concerned about though is the fairness of the deal being offered to me. I suspect if I was a more talented negotiator I could get that same tub brand new out of the factory at that price without having to take the floor model. In fact, another poster recently shared the price he was being offered for a brand new version of the same size but different seat configuration tub (his is a 552 model, the floor model we are considering for comparison purposes could be called a 572 as in Bullfrog’s naming system the first number is the number of jet packs, the second number is the number of seats, and the third is the number of pumps on the tub) and I think he was at about $600 less than the price this floor model is being offered to me at. And while his tub is a new 2012 model, ours is a 2013 floor model that has been used in shop for 6 months. I would love to know what would be a good price on the A7 new from the factory.That would then help me guage if the deal being offered for the floor model is a good deal or not. I suspect a savy negotiator could get the brand new from the factory tub at the price I'm being offered to take the floor model. I think that is what I'm really hung up on. Does anyone have any thoughts for me?

I've been out spa shopping as my 4 year old CalSpas tub was heavily damaged in a hail storm and needs to be replaced as a result. I have looked at a ton of tubs! I've also seen a ton of prices! I hate that feeling that I may not be getting the best price possible on something purely based on a salesman's whims. I do have a deal on the table with Bullfrog for an A7 2013 model (they changed their jetpack design for 2013). This would be their floor model they are willing to sell as it was one of the first made with the new jetpacks. Since this tub was made another control button has been added to the top of the tubs that are produced now. They want their floor model to match the product that is shipping from the factory, so they are willing to sell this floor model. Its been in use on their salefloor for probably 6 months and would come to me with a full warranty. The A7 model is a 7' by 7' tub that seats 7 adults, and it includes 5 jetpack seats. The deal is for tub, steps, cover, lifter, and delivery. This tub has 2 pumps. As it sits now there is no ozonator. Since I prefer to use a 3 step bromine sanitation process they have agreed to install an ozonator. The tub was stickered for full price at something like $14,500. They had a sale label on this tub to get a factory new version in desired colors for $12,500.00. But after talking to them they offered to sell me the actual tub on their floor for $10,249.00. I'm thinking there might still be room for them to come down. Am I right? Should I take this deal as it is now? Should I try to work them down lower? Any and all advice is appreciated!

OMG Do NOT, I repeat DO NOT!!!!! dump a gallon of Muriatic Acid into your hot tub!! I promise you, that will be the END of that hot tub and no warranty in the world will help you if you do something so foolish!!! Muriatic acid is a STRONG acid. While there are some fancy, high tech industrial acids in the world, Muriatic Acid, otherwise known as Hydrochloric Acid, is one of the strongest acids an average person is able to interact with. If you put 1 gallon of it into your hot tub it will destroy the finish, all of your fittings, and it will corrode everything that it doesn't outright destroy. Then to add injury to insult, you will severely chemically burn yourself if you contact that water while draining the tub. Or God forbid what might happen to anyone who might try to climb into that tub before you have a chance to drain out the chemicals. Urban legend tells of gangs using hydrochloric acid to dissolve bodies. It can come pretty close, even diluted 450:1. That drain water will kill any grass it comes into contact with, and will damage just about any surface it comes in contact with. I believe it would still be strong enough to etch concrete. Pool and Spa chemicals deserve your full respect! They can be dangerous and you should never, ever under estimate their power to cause harm if used incorrectly! Please trust me. I am a pharmacist in real life, I know what harm HCl can do to a human being!

I'm just a newbie myself but I do have 2 thoughts: First, I am wondering what impact the metal gone might be having on your testing. Do you know if you have some type of metal problem that required the use of the sequesterant? One basic rule I have learned is to never put any chemical into my pool or hot tub unless I have a specific reason to. My second thought is that you might have a need to do more of a decontamination process on that tub than just emptying it and refilling. You really have no idea what kind of care that tub had before you came along. I would think it could be possible that the bromine is being "used up" by contaminants that are living in the tub. Posted in this forum is a decontamination procedure that can be followed to ensure your tub is clean as a whistle. Its a 2 step process that first uses an enzyme preparation that can break down the biofilm that microorganisms form around themselves within the pipes of a hot tub, then uses a "supershock" process to make sure everything possible is dead. Finally the tub is drained again and started back off with a fresh, clean fill. Check out Nitro's decontamination thread in this forum for complete instructions. Good Luck!

I have a TF-100 kit that I bought for my pool last summer and have used with great success. When adding a bromine hot tub to my set-up later in the summer, I bought a Taylor K2106 to use with it. One thing I would say when comparing both kits is that the Taylor kits are packaged using a neater, more compact design while the case on the TF kit takes up a bit more space to store. So if storage is a consideration the Taylor might win out on that point. The TF-100 kit seems to be a custom designed kit put together out of various components. The vendor behind the TF-100 seems to be a small business man who I know offers great customer service. I feel good when I patronize a high quality small businesses. When other factors appear to be equal, I know there are people like me who might choose to give their business to the small business man. Ultimately, it is hard to go wrong with either choice. Both kits are going to give you the information you need to know to take control of your spa or pool and allow you to enjoy a safe and healthy swim season.

This is pretty much what I have been doing with my tub. After soaks we use a little bleach but rely upon the bromine floater to keep levels up between soaks. Over this winter when we would sometimes go a week or more without actually soaking in the tub, it was nice to know that little bromine floater was out there doing its job!

Exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you Richard!!

Quick question: I have a 24" round AGP that I maintain using the BBB method, and a 450 gal portable hot tub that I maintain using a 3 step bromine process. I have a t-100 test kit from the vendor over at Trouble Free Pools that I use for the pool, and then when I got the hot tub last summer I purchased a Taylor K-2106 test kit for the hot tub. Both kits are fairly depleated now and I may as well buy a fresh kit for this season. If I get a Taylor K-2006 will that cover my needs for both the hot tub and the pool? I guess I am not clear what difference there may be in the chlorine and bromine portions of the kits I've had. When I am running the 2 different systems what would be the best value in a test kit for me? Any advice? Thanks!!! Leanne

We just paid $650 to have a 50 amp service GFCI put in about 6 weeks ago. We had bought a used hot tub from a spa repair shop and ended up using the electician they recommended. Boy am I glad we did! When the electician flipped the switch the first time on that used tub, black smoke started pouring out from under the tub. Since we had used their electrician, there wasn't much the spa shop guys could say to us about the problem. So they did end up taking that tub back from us. I can't help but wonder that if we had used an electrician of our own if we would have had an argument on our hands.

Thanks for all of the good advice! I've done some thinking and I think I have started to put 2 + 2 together. When my hot tub was delivered, the guys I bought it from saw my above ground pool sitting just a few yards away from the new hot tub and they got the brilliant idea to fill the hot tub using my pool water, not the tap water. These guys run a local spa repair shop so I figured they knew what they were doing and I let them go ahead. I use the BBB system in my AGP, plus I have added borates to 50 ppm and NaCl to 2000 ppm to improve the feel of the pool water. I got to thinking, I wonder if that salt is crystallizing inside some of the hot tub jets and sticking them up? So I drained my tub yesterday and started over with a fresh fill of water straight from the tap. I've balanced the fresh water and already things seem much improved! The jets are turning much more freely now than they were. I really do think the salt in the pool water was behind the problem. At this point I do think it would help to open up the jets and clean inside of them. I can't seem to figure out though how to open them up? I know I'm supposed to turn them 1/4 turn passed either the fully open point or the fully closed point, but I am not sure which? I've gently tried both ways and they don't seem to want to budge. Do I need to press in on them (like a child proof pill bottle cap) or anything like that? Is there a special wrench that is needed or anything? Again, I appreciate all of the advice!

I have a new 2008 CalSpas tub that I bought about 6 weeks ago. I actually bought it from a liquidator at a discount price as it was originally inventory from a dealer who went out of business. As a result, I don't have a whole lot of information about the tub, and no dealer to call with questions (yes, I know... I'm learning my lesson the hard way already on this!) Anyway, I have noticed in the short time we have been using this tub that some of the jets are getting very difficult to turn. There really doesn't seem to be anything wrong with them other than they seem sticky. It almost seems like they need some sort of lubricant? I know that sounds odd, but honestly if this was some other sort of knob located on some other sort of appliance, I'd be inclined to get out the WD-40! Even without a dealer to ask, I do know that WD-40 and hot tubs are probably best kept far, far away from each other! I am using bromine as my sanitizer and the tub has an ozonator. While I am new to hot tub ownership, I have had an above ground pool for a bit over a year now and so I have had some sort of practice with keeping a body of water sanitized and balanced. I have been diligent in keeping the hot tub's water chemistry parameters under control. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this and what I could do to remedy it? Thanks! Leanne

I don't see how you would have any bromine in your tub yet if that is all the chemicals you added. Instead I wonder if your test is picking up the chlorine from the boost product you added and you are reading that as bromine?

Have you considered an above ground pool as an option? We put in a 24' round above ground pool last summer, and the cost was quite reasonable. We bought the pool at our local Watson's during an end of season sale. Installation was included in the sale price of the pool along with all necessary equipment to get the pool up and running. All totaled, it ran about $2200.00 (and this was NOT their bottom of the line pool, either). We've been VERY happy with the purchase and would do it again in a heartbeat. This summer, we ended up adding a hot tub to our backyard. The hot tub we bought was new, but from a liquidator who was clearancing out spas from a bankrupt dealer. We got a good price on our tub, but even so it ran 3 times what we spent on the pool last summer. The electrical installation for the spa was more than twice what we paid for the electrical installation on the pool too. So, while there are great reasons to get a hot tub, and there are great reasons to get a pool, getting a hot tub just because you think it will be cheaper than a pool is probably not the best of reasons. Instead get whichever you and your family will enjoy the most because that will ultimately give you the most value for your money!

Do you shock with chlorine when using bromine??? Well, I am a newb but my understanding is that once weekly you do need to shock a bromine tub. I believe you can use either chlorine or MPS shock. The chlorine/MPS shock functions to oxidize sodium bromide from your reserve into your active sanitizer, hypobromous acid. The shocking process just converts a greater concentration of the bromide ions into the hypobromous acid to ensure the spa is cleared of all organic matter on a regular basis. In my chlorine sanitized swimming pool, I haven't had to shock yet this summer. But in the pool I can test for combined chloramines which if present indicate the presence of organic matter. Shocking by adding a high level of chlorine breaks down down those organics. My pool has consistantly tested negative for combined chloramines all summer, thus there has been no need to shock it. As far as I know, there isn't a similar test for a bromine spa to check if the spa needs to be shocked or not. So I think the practice is to play it safe and routinely shock a bromine spa once weekly. Some of you more experienced guys please chime in if I explained any of this wrong? And BTW, I seem to be running much more stable sanitizer levels since converting to the bromine. So far I am happy with the switch!

Well, I did go ahead and convert over to bromine. I used Sodium Bromide to start my reserve, my ozonator is operating, and I have a floater with bromine tabs in it. I know to shock once weekly with chlorine and to wait for the bromine level to drop below 10 before using the tub after shocking. I have one question though that I am unsure about. Do I still add anything after soaks now with the bromine system? If so, what do I add and how much of it do I put in? Thanks for the much needed advice!

Actually, we have been using the tub very heavily in the 2 weeks we've had it. We have 2 college age kids who have been in and out of the tub with their dates and friends. Even before we got the new tub we had gotten into the habbit of having company over most weekends to swim in our pool with us, so there have been plenty of people in and out of the new tub. I've been adding chlorine after soaks and also using MPS shock when entertaining, but twice now I've gone out to test the hot tub and found the TC at 0 when I wasn't expecting it to have dropped so low at all! So I am thinking with the heavy usage, a bromine system that works with the ozonator to basically "feed" bromine sanitizer into the tub during each filter cycle might be the way for us to go.

Its purpose is mostly to make the spa look impressive on the showroom floor. lol, I suspected as much! You gotta admit though, "Volcano Jet" certainly sounds impressive!

We got our first hot tub about 2 weeks ago and so far are greatly enjoying it! We have had an above ground pool for about a year and use the BBB system in the pool to great success! Naturally, I assumed I would just follow the same BBB principles in the hot tub since they had been so successful for me in the pool, and that is pretty much what I have been doing the last 2 weeks. I've also been doing lots of message board reading though this forum and over at www.troublefreepool.com about spa care and water chemistry issues. A few things have finally clicked for me and I am starting to do some rethinking. My spa has an ozonator and it seems to me based on the recent readings I have done that an ozonator can be used in either a chlorine spa (like I am running right now) or a bromine spa (what I am thinking of converting to). But, in a chlorine spa an ozonator increases the rate of breakdown of the chlorine (active sanitizer) and therefor the spa might require more frequent additions of chlorine to keep it appropriately sanitized when the ozonator is running. While in a bromine spa the ozonator actually helps to convert the bromide reserve into active bromine sanitizer? So while that may mean the bromide reserve is depleted more often and water changes may then need to be more frequent, the ozonator helps keep a steady supply of active bromine sanitizer being formed in the tub. So ultimately an ozonator actually complements a bromine spa to a greater degree than it might a chlorine spa? Am I understanding this all correctly? Because if I am, I think I will covert over to a bromine system. Advice anyone? Thanks!!

About 2 weeks ago my husband and I bought a new CalSpas tub from a hot tub liquidator (he aquired it from a CalSpas dealer who had gone bankrupt.) Because of the liquidator middleman, we did not get a chance to wet test the tub. Instead made the decision based on issues like price, number of pumps, number of jets, seating configuration, etc... For the most part we are happy with the tub, but we have discovered one annoyance. Each corner of this tub has a captain's seat with multiple neck and back jets, and with them turned on we both have trouble sitting in and staying in the seats. Its like the jets push us up and out and it feels like if we don't hang on we will float away! I have to find something to hang onto while I tense up my body to keep in my seat. That's kind of the oposite of what I want to do in my tub! I want to relax and let the jets massage tension out of my body! Not tense up and hang on for dear life! Does anyone have any advice? My husband and I are both fairly short people (I am 5'3" and he is about 5'7"). Are we too short for these seats? We are still pretty confused by the array of diverters, dials, and pumps on this tub. Is there a way to fine tune some of the combinations of settings to get some good jet action in those seats without the jets blowing us out of the tub? This is a large tub (8ft by 8ft) and it seats 7-8 people. Because of the liquidation aspect of the purchase, we don't know the exact model, but it looks like a "Victory Xtreme" series tub based on what I can see on the CalSpas website. And finally, a really stupid question. This tub has a volcano jet in the floor. What is the purpose of a volcano jet? Its such a high rate of flow that it steals a lot of water pressure from the other jets when we turn it on. Its way too forceful to enjoy as a foot jet. Am I missing something obvious that we are supposed to be using this jet for? Thanks in advance for any and all advice!