De Filter Problems

[Crucian]

Hi all!

New to the forum I am!

I know that "DE migrating back into pool" has been covered here and elsewhere, many, many times but....

I have a 5 year old Hayward DE 24" DE filter, not the bump style, the I believe grid style. A few months ago I started to get DE in the bottom of the pool after a filter cycle. I pulled the elements down, found one with a cracked spout, where it fits into the manifold so given the age I decided to replace the entire set. Reassemble proper, including new O-Ring where filter manifold dumps into the return at base, add DE to Skimmer, let run and DE in Pool!

Next pop the cap on the multi-valve and not only was gasket worn, but a channel between ports was cracked. Ok, I'll play this game so $126.00 later, new 1-1/2" Hayward multi-port valve installed.

Filter cycle and oh crap...DE on bottom of the pool downstream of jets.

I've triple checked the Manifold for cracks, none, it appears perfect. I'm getting ready to install a Pentair Intelliflo VS to allow me to run at low speeds and save energy/$.

1. I don't have any idea where to look for the source of DE going back into the pool?

2. I'm hoping that running low GPM's with the new pump will solve the problem, wherever it is.

3. I guess if it doesn't I will need to replace the manifold in the filter as it may have a hairline that opens up or the whole darn

filter housing, manifold and all.

Any thoughts?

....and thanks!

The Crucian ---- St. Croix, Virgin Islands

[Gavin]

sounds like DE getting through the filter some how. its supposed to stick to the grids. maybe you should clean the grids and look for holes or tears in the grids.

[Crucian]

sounds like DE getting through the filter some how. its supposed to stick to the grids. maybe you should clean the grids and look for holes or tears in the grids.

Yes, but they are brand new......less than 30 days old. After it still leaked, I pulled the whole assy. apart to inspect them and to insure that all were properly seated in the manifold, which they were/are?

I'm stumped and my only hope is that the low rpm/gpm with the new variable speed pump will stop it. I just thought someone had some "out of the box" experience with something like this. It just defies logic, but yet it is happening. I suspected the fit between the manifold and the filter element "spouts" but both are hayward and the supplier confirmed they were correct?

[ps558]

sounds like DE getting through the filter some how. its supposed to stick to the grids. maybe you should clean the grids and look for holes or tears in the grids.

Yes, but they are brand new......less than 30 days old. After it still leaked, I pulled the whole assy. apart to inspect them and to insure that all were properly seated in the manifold, which they were/are?

I'm stumped and my only hope is that the low rpm/gpm with the new variable speed pump will stop it. I just thought someone had some "out of the box" experience with something like this. It just defies logic, but yet it is happening. I suspected the fit between the manifold and the filter element "spouts" but both are hayward and the supplier confirmed they were correct?

There could be de powder still in the lines. Backwash the filter. Have someone add DE while someone looks at the returns to see if any comes out. It will be cloudy. Is the air relief on top of the manifold still there with a sleeve over it? Most manifolds crack at the seem were they are put together

[Pool Clown]

Have you checked the internal air bleed? It is a short or long (depending on the type of filter) tube that extends to the top of the filter bundle. It is supposed to bleed off any air that may accumulate in the filter tank, and keep the filter grids submerged. This tube is supposed to have some sort of screen on it to keep debris/D.E. from passing. If this tube gets clogged or can't allow air to pass, pressure inside the tank will compress that trapped air and when the pump shuts off, the air will expand and send the water and possibly D.E. with it back to the pool via the skimmer or main drain.

Or, if the screen is missing/ ripped it can send D.E. back to the pool, but usually will only happen when adding D.E. or when the pump first starts up.

Are you getting D.E. back to the pool when the pump is off (over night)?

Or can you see the D.E. coming back to the pool thru the returns (while running)?

Or do you notice it only at the bottom after it settles out (at the main drain)?

Note: this is a repost of a reply i made here a couple of days ago. I don't know what happened to it.

[MKuz14]

Pool Clown has raised a good point. When does the DE return to the pool? If your system is on a timer and only runs for 8 hours out of the day, when the pump shuts off back pressure may cause DE to run through the pump and back to the pool. Causing it to come out of the main drain or cloud up the skimmer(s). If this is the case you may consider installing a check value to prevent this from happening. Also you may want to attempt to set your multi port in the waste position and vacuum the pool the waste to remove all DE from the pool. Timing of when the DE returns to the pool will tell the story of where it's coming from.

[Joe M]

Hello all.. i have the same problem. when my pump shuts off DE goes back into the pool. I have a brand new pump, DE filter, check valve and some various tubing. In the skimmer there is a valve that i can rotate and when i turn it all the way in one direction DE does not get in the bottom of the pool. but today i had the spa on and when i turned the pump off the bottom of the spa filled up with DE. i'm lost i have no idea what else to do. when kreepy krawly is installed there is bubbles coming in the pool and if i take kreepy out the bubbles go away... any ideas??? thank you all in advance.

[Pool Clown]

when the pump shuts off back pressure may cause DE to run through the pump and back to the pool. Causing it to come out of the main drain or cloud up the skimmer(s). If this is the case you may consider installing a check value to prevent this from happening.

Keep in mind that this sort of fix is not really a fix, but treating a symptom. If your having a back flow problem, this isn't normal and you should look to fix it. The reason for the (filter) bleed tube is to prevent this, and if it's not working right, i would start there. Then, find out why air keeps entering the filter tank. Unless you just emptied the pump basket, or opened up the system for any reason, you shouldn't have air.

[Swim 'N Save USA]

Hello all.. i have the same problem. when my pump shuts off DE goes back into the pool. I have a brand new pump, DE filter, check valve and some various tubing. In the skimmer there is a valve that i can rotate and when i turn it all the way in one direction DE does not get in the bottom of the pool. but today i had the spa on and when i turned the pump off the bottom of the spa filled up with DE. i'm lost i have no idea what else to do. when kreepy krawly is installed there is bubbles coming in the pool and if i take kreepy out the bubbles go away... any ideas??? thank you all in advance.

when your automatic cleaner is plugged into the suction side, it will increase the pressure in the pump/filter/chlorinator/etc... This increased pressure will suck in air from the environment if everything isn't screwed on tightly. This includes the covers for the pump & chlorinator as well as the clamps that holds the filter together. If the problem goes away when the automatic cleaner is disconnected, this appears to be the problem. If you have any further questions, feel free to contact our service department at (727) 686-9219 / (813) 639-8890 or visit us on the web at www.swimnsaveusa.com.

[Pool Clown]

when your automatic cleaner is plugged into the suction side, it will increase the pressure in the pump/filter/chlorinator/etc...

How does that work? Putting more load on the suction side(i.e. attaching the Kreepy Krauly) will reduce the pressure that the pump puts out, not increase it.

This increased pressure will suck in air from the environment if everything isn't screwed on tightly. This includes the covers for the pump & chlorinator as well as the clamps that holds the filter together.

I can see the pump lid, and some suction side Cl feeders, but how does air get sucked into the pressure environment of a filter?

If you have any further questions, feel free to contact our service department at (727) 686-9219 / (813) 639-8890 or visit us on the web at www.swimnsaveusa.com.

This sounds somewhat like a solicitation. The purpose of these forums is to answer the questions of pool owners, as well as the "further questions". The professionals here don't solicit their company's, we just offer our knowledge.

[Swim 'N Save USA]

when your automatic cleaner is plugged into the suction side, it will increase the pressure in the pump/filter/chlorinator/etc...

How does that work? Putting more load on the suction side(i.e. attaching the Kreepy Krauly) will reduce the pressure that the pump puts out, not increase it.

This increased pressure will suck in air from the environment if everything isn't screwed on tightly. This includes the covers for the pump & chlorinator as well as the clamps that holds the filter together.

I can see the pump lid, and some suction side Cl feeders, but how does air get sucked into the pressure environment of a filter?

If you have any further questions, feel free to contact our service department at (727) 686-9219 / (813) 639-8890 or visit us on the web at www.swimnsaveusa.com.

This sounds somewhat like a solicitation. The purpose of these forums is to answer the questions of pool owners, as well as the "further questions". The professionals here don't solicit their company's, we just offer our knowledge.

When an automatic cleaner is attached, you are therefore reducing the amount of water flow continuously entering the pump. with this happening, the pump still wants to keep "sucking" something, so it will start to suck air from any loose fittings INCLUDING the lid of an unsecured pump housing.

Also...I am not soliciting, if that were true, I would have said "hey, we have a whole new system we can sell you for $1,500!!!" that is not true, I was referring to our DIY guide and also our SERVICE department, not SALES. Our company does well by NOT pushing products, excess chemicals, etc onto customers unlike the other stores. We simply help anyone with questions and most likely, they are more than satisfied saving money with us and having this rapport therefore switching to us for their pool and patio needs!

[Pool Clown]

when your automatic cleaner is plugged into the suction side, it will increase the pressure in the pump/filter/chlorinator/etc...

How does that work? Putting more load on the suction side(i.e. attaching the Kreepy Krauly) will reduce the pressure that the pump puts out, not increase it.

This increased pressure will suck in air from the environment if everything isn't screwed on tightly. This includes the covers for the pump & chlorinator as well as the clamps that holds the filter together.

I can see the pump lid, and some suction side Cl feeders, but how does air get sucked into the pressure environment of a filter?

If you have any further questions, feel free to contact our service department at (727) 686-9219 / (813) 639-8890 or visit us on the web at www.swimnsaveusa.com.

This sounds somewhat like a solicitation. The purpose of these forums is to answer the questions of pool owners, as well as the "further questions". The professionals here don't solicit their company's, we just offer our knowledge.

When an automatic cleaner is attached, you are therefore reducing the amount of water flow continuously entering the pump. with this happening, the pump still wants to keep "sucking" something, so it will start to suck air from any loose fittings INCLUDING the lid of an unsecured pump housing.

Correct, However,as more air gets sucked in, you begin to loose prime which will DECREASE your pressure not increase it. Also, you didn't explain how air gets sucked in through the fllter clamp when running.

Also...I am not soliciting, if that were true, I would have said "hey, we have a whole new system we can sell you for $1,500!!!" that is not true, I was referring to our DIY guide and also our SERVICE department, not SALES. Our company does well by NOT pushing products, excess chemicals, etc onto customers unlike the other stores. We simply help anyone with questions and most likely, they are more than satisfied saving money with us and having this rapport therefore switching to us for their pool and patio needs!

Then one would not have to call you, but to ask further question(s) here. So others can learn/benefit from the responses. Thats what this forum is for.

[Swim 'N Save USA]

when your automatic cleaner is plugged into the suction side, it will increase the pressure in the pump/filter/chlorinator/etc...

How does that work? Putting more load on the suction side(i.e. attaching the Kreepy Krauly) will reduce the pressure that the pump puts out, not increase it.

This increased pressure will suck in air from the environment if everything isn't screwed on tightly. This includes the covers for the pump & chlorinator as well as the clamps that holds the filter together.

I can see the pump lid, and some suction side Cl feeders, but how does air get sucked into the pressure environment of a filter?

If you have any further questions, feel free to contact our service department at (727) 686-9219 / (813) 639-8890 or visit us on the web at www.swimnsaveusa.com.

This sounds somewhat like a solicitation. The purpose of these forums is to answer the questions of pool owners, as well as the "further questions". The professionals here don't solicit their company's, we just offer our knowledge.

When an automatic cleaner is attached, you are therefore reducing the amount of water flow continuously entering the pump. with this happening, the pump still wants to keep "sucking" something, so it will start to suck air from any loose fittings INCLUDING the lid of an unsecured pump housing.

Correct, However,as more air gets sucked in, you begin to loose prime which will DECREASE your pressure not increase it. Also, you didn't explain how air gets sucked in through the fllter clamp when running.

Also...I am not soliciting, if that were true, I would have said "hey, we have a whole new system we can sell you for $1,500!!!" that is not true, I was referring to our DIY guide and also our SERVICE department, not SALES. Our company does well by NOT pushing products, excess chemicals, etc onto customers unlike the other stores. We simply help anyone with questions and most likely, they are more than satisfied saving money with us and having this rapport therefore switching to us for their pool and patio needs!

Then one would not have to call you, but to ask further question(s) here. So others can learn/benefit from the responses. Thats what this forum is for.

air can also get sucked in via the filter if A:) The o-ring is worn or bad OR B:) The clamps or "nut" is not tightened down. other reasons air may be in his/her system can stem all the way up to cracked pipe(s), bad hoses, or a combination there-of.

[Pool Clown]

air can also get sucked in via the filter if A:) The o-ring is worn or bad OR B:) The clamps or "nut" is not tightened down. other reasons air may be in his/her system can stem all the way up to cracked pipe(s), bad hoses, or a combination there-of.

With the pump running and system under pressure??? I don't think so. The filter is going to leak water, not suck air in!!

You could get air drawn in though a cracked pipe, but only on the inlet side of the pump where there is vacuum.

[PoolManPete]

Hi all!

New to the forum I am!

I know that "DE migrating back into pool" has been covered here and elsewhere, many, many times but....

I have a 5 year old Hayward DE 24" DE filter, not the bump style, the I believe grid style. A few months ago I started to get DE in the bottom of the pool after a filter cycle. I pulled the elements down, found one with a cracked spout, where it fits into the manifold so given the age I decided to replace the entire set. Reassemble proper, including new O-Ring where filter manifold dumps into the return at base, add DE to Skimmer, let run and DE in Pool!

Next pop the cap on the multi-valve and not only was gasket worn, but a channel between ports was cracked. Ok, I'll play this game so $126.00 later, new 1-1/2" Hayward multi-port valve installed.

Filter cycle and oh crap...DE on bottom of the pool downstream of jets.

I've triple checked the Manifold for cracks, none, it appears perfect. I'm getting ready to install a Pentair Intelliflo VS to allow me to run at low speeds and save energy/$.

1. I don't have any idea where to look for the source of DE going back into the pool?

2. I'm hoping that running low GPM's with the new pump will solve the problem, wherever it is.

3. I guess if it doesn't I will need to replace the manifold in the filter as it may have a hairline that opens up or the whole darn

filter housing, manifold and all.

Any thoughts?

....and thanks!

The Crucian ---- St. Croix, Virgin Islands

[/quote

Sounds like too much DE was used to coat the grids. How much DE did you add for the initial startup? How much DE do you add after every time you back wash.