BigDfromTN Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hello again all. I read some place what was powered by which breaker. My problem is the 30 stays on fine and runs the circ pump, jet pump 1 and jet pump 2 and the lights. Not sure what runs off the 20. As soon as I flip the 20 it instantly trips off. Was curious what to look at and not be chasing rabbits. This is on a Caldera Utopia Geneva, 2002 model. I just replaced both control boards. Thanks in advance. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hello again all. I read some place what was powered by which breaker. My problem is the 30 stays on fine and runs the circ pump, jet pump 1 and jet pump 2 and the lights. Not sure what runs off the 20. As soon as I flip the 20 it instantly trips off. Was curious what to look at and not be chasing rabbits. This is on a Caldera Utopia Geneva, 2002 model. I just replaced both control boards. Thanks in advance. Don I think you'll find your heater alone is what is on the 20A breaker. If you disconnect your heater I think you'll find that the 20 A breaker won't trip any longer and that the issue is with the heater itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDfromTN Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hello again all. I read some place what was powered by which breaker. My problem is the 30 stays on fine and runs the circ pump, jet pump 1 and jet pump 2 and the lights. Not sure what runs off the 20. As soon as I flip the 20 it instantly trips off. Was curious what to look at and not be chasing rabbits. This is on a Caldera Utopia Geneva, 2002 model. I just replaced both control boards. Thanks in advance. Don I think you'll find your heater alone is what is on the 20A breaker. If you disconnect your heater I think you'll find that the 20 A breaker won't trip any longer and that the issue is with the heater itself. Thanks for the quick reply!!!! I will Isolate it and see if that does the trick..... And then report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDfromTN Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 OK, new question!! I went and disc. the heater from the control board and turned the 20 on. It held until I turned on the 30 and then the 20 poped off instantly. I reconnected the heater and same thing. Then I disc. the blower and same thing. The blower would not work and I was a bit curious. The blower has 3 wires coming into the control box but only 2 places to hook up the green and black wires. Not the white. For more info...... The 20 is a GFCI breaker and the 30 is a plain one. The entire 20/30 sub panel is powered by a 50 amp GFCI. Thanks in advance. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 OK, new question!! I went and disc. the heater from the control board and turned the 20 on. It held until I turned on the 30 and then the 20 poped off instantly. I reconnected the heater and same thing. Then I disc. the blower and same thing. The blower would not work and I was a bit curious. The blower has 3 wires coming into the control box but only 2 places to hook up the green and black wires. Not the white. For more info...... The 20 is a GFCI breaker and the 30 is a plain one. The entire 20/30 sub panel is powered by a 50 amp GFCI. Thanks in advance. Don Since you stated that you replaced both boards, in essence you replaced the entire Advent controller. Are you absolutely positive that the metal power jumpers specifically are set appropriately? What about the jumpers on JP1 through JP12? Did you note the difference between the terminal block in your original controller and the terminal block in the newer controller? Be aware that any failure to set the power jumpers properly or wire the terminal block properly may result in ruining the new Advent controller. And there is a connection for the white blower wire. It is not on the row with all the other wiring. Look just above the connection points for the jet pumps. You will see silk screening identifying where the white blower wire goes. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDfromTN Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 OK, new question!! I went and disc. the heater from the control board and turned the 20 on. It held until I turned on the 30 and then the 20 poped off instantly. I reconnected the heater and same thing. Then I disc. the blower and same thing. The blower would not work and I was a bit curious. The blower has 3 wires coming into the control box but only 2 places to hook up the green and black wires. Not the white. For more info...... The 20 is a GFCI breaker and the 30 is a plain one. The entire 20/30 sub panel is powered by a 50 amp GFCI. Thanks in advance. Don Since you stated that you replaced both boards, in essence you replaced the entire Advent controller. Are you absolutely positive that the metal power jumpers specifically are set appropriately? What about the jumpers on JP1 through JP12? Did you note the difference between the terminal block in your original controller and the terminal block in the newer controller? Be aware that any failure to set the power jumpers properly or wire the terminal block properly may result in ruining the new Advent controller. And there is a connection for the white blower wire. It is not on the row with all the other wiring. Look just above the connection points for the jet pumps. You will see silk screening identifying where the white blower wire goes. John John, Yes I did replace the entire advent controller. The new one is a bit different. I did pay attention to the jumpers and jumped #9 and #12 per the intructions for the Utopia, Geneva model. The power leads were different and upgraded for the heater leads too. I am quite sure I got all that right. I will double check the blower white wire terminal and get back. I have reviewed the wiring diagram that came with the new controller and believe I have it all wired as shown. Something is not right however. If I turn on the 20 it will be ok. BUT when the 30 is turned on the 20 trips instantly. And if the 30 is on the 20 will trip instantly. Not sure what is up..... Edit: Went back and found white wire for blower. Plugged it up and BINGO it is working. Now all works but the heater due to the 20 amp poping as soon as you turn it on with the 30 amp on. Only other thing I can think of this.... I made connections between the subpanel and the controller box in an LB. This LB is attached to the underground PVC conduit and a liquid proof flex that attaches to the control box. I will check those in the AM to be sure all is ok there. Any ideas or things to check will be appreciated. I know its something simple just not sure what simple thing it is..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Sounds like the wiring is messed up. Pics would help. Make sure that the white wire that connects to terminal #5 in the control box is hooked up to the neutral of the gfci breaker (I think the 30 but make sure on the diagram) and not connected to the bus bar in the sub-panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDfromTN Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Sounds like the wiring is messed up. Pics would help. Make sure that the white wire that connects to terminal #5 in the control box is hooked up to the neutral of the gfci breaker (I think the 30 but make sure on the diagram) and not connected to the bus bar in the sub-panel. Dan, The neutral (white wire) is connected to the "load neutral" on the center of the 20 amp gfci. and it is connected to the #5 on the terminal block. There is no lead from the neutral bus bar to the neutral on the control box. I have a ground rod at the sub panel and it is connected to a sep ground bus. I have a ground wire from that bus to the ground lug in the control panel. I also have a ground rod by the tub and a ground wire from that rod to the the bus on the left outer part of the control box. I have a ground wire from the ground bus of the sub panel to the neutral/ground bus in the feeder panel. (Could this be causing the problem?) The load leads for the 20 amp GFCI are connected to #1 and #3. The load leads for the 30 amp (plain breaker) are connected to #2 and #4 Other wires in the smaller contol board are for the heater. This is the newer heater contol board and I removed the spade connectors and put one wire into the H1 term and the other into the H2 holders and then the green ground wire I screwed to the ground between the 2 terminal blocks. All this is powered from a sub panel in my garage that is fed from my main panel on the other side of the house. The panel inside the garage has one 50 amp GFCI and 1 other circuit right now that powers a freezer. I fed the outside sub panel with all 3 leads from the 50 GFCI and then put a ground from the neutral/ground bus on the inside to the ground bus on the outside panel. (the outside has 2 bus bars, one for neutral and the other for grounds. The ground bus has 3 wires on it. one from the outside ground rod. one to the contol box and the other to the inside feeder box. The neutral bus has one from the feeder 50 gfci and one to the 20 Amp gfci in the same sub panel. Thanks again all, Let me know what else to look for. Im sure its something simple, just not sure what. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Sounds like the wiring is messed up. Pics would help. Make sure that the white wire that connects to terminal #5 in the control box is hooked up to the neutral of the gfci breaker (I think the 30 but make sure on the diagram) and not connected to the bus bar in the sub-panel. Dan, The neutral (white wire) is connected to the "load neutral" on the center of the 20 amp gfci. and it is connected to the #5 on the terminal block. There is no lead from the neutral bus bar to the neutral on the control box. I have a ground rod at the sub panel and it is connected to a sep ground bus. I have a ground wire from that bus to the ground lug in the control panel. I also have a ground rod by the tub and a ground wire from that rod to the the bus on the left outer part of the control box. I have a ground wire from the ground bus of the sub panel to the neutral/ground bus in the feeder panel. (Could this be causing the problem?) The load leads for the 20 amp GFCI are connected to #1 and #3. The load leads for the 30 amp (plain breaker) are connected to #2 and #4 Other wires in the smaller contol board are for the heater. This is the newer heater contol board and I removed the spade connectors and put one wire into the H1 term and the other into the H2 holders and then the green ground wire I screwed to the ground between the 2 terminal blocks. All this is powered from a sub panel in my garage that is fed from my main panel on the other side of the house. The panel inside the garage has one 50 amp GFCI and 1 other circuit right now that powers a freezer. I fed the outside sub panel with all 3 leads from the 50 GFCI and then put a ground from the neutral/ground bus on the inside to the ground bus on the outside panel. (the outside has 2 bus bars, one for neutral and the other for grounds. The ground bus has 3 wires on it. one from the outside ground rod. one to the contol box and the other to the inside feeder box. The neutral bus has one from the feeder 50 gfci and one to the 20 Amp gfci in the same sub panel. Thanks again all, Let me know what else to look for. Im sure its something simple, just not sure what. Don Love to see some pictures. Really hard to tell from the description, but the two leading theories I have is a miswiring (grounds and neutrals together on the load side of the GFCI) or a ground loop due to stray currents coming in on all these ground rods. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Sounds like the wiring is messed up. Pics would help. Make sure that the white wire that connects to terminal #5 in the control box is hooked up to the neutral of the gfci breaker (I think the 30 but make sure on the diagram) and not connected to the bus bar in the sub-panel. Dan, The neutral (white wire) is connected to the "load neutral" on the center of the 20 amp gfci. and it is connected to the #5 on the terminal block. There is no lead from the neutral bus bar to the neutral on the control box. I have a ground rod at the sub panel and it is connected to a sep ground bus. I have a ground wire from that bus to the ground lug in the control panel. I also have a ground rod by the tub and a ground wire from that rod to the the bus on the left outer part of the control box. I have a ground wire from the ground bus of the sub panel to the neutral/ground bus in the feeder panel. (Could this be causing the problem?) The load leads for the 20 amp GFCI are connected to #1 and #3. The load leads for the 30 amp (plain breaker) are connected to #2 and #4 Other wires in the smaller contol board are for the heater. This is the newer heater contol board and I removed the spade connectors and put one wire into the H1 term and the other into the H2 holders and then the green ground wire I screwed to the ground between the 2 terminal blocks. All this is powered from a sub panel in my garage that is fed from my main panel on the other side of the house. The panel inside the garage has one 50 amp GFCI and 1 other circuit right now that powers a freezer. I fed the outside sub panel with all 3 leads from the 50 GFCI and then put a ground from the neutral/ground bus on the inside to the ground bus on the outside panel. (the outside has 2 bus bars, one for neutral and the other for grounds. The ground bus has 3 wires on it. one from the outside ground rod. one to the contol box and the other to the inside feeder box. The neutral bus has one from the feeder 50 gfci and one to the 20 Amp gfci in the same sub panel. Thanks again all, Let me know what else to look for. Im sure its something simple, just not sure what. Don Love to see some pictures. Really hard to tell from the description, but the two leading theories I have is a miswiring (grounds and neutrals together on the load side of the GFCI) or a ground loop due to stray currents coming in on all these ground rods. John Oh, one other thought. A total shot in the dark, but check out your underwater light wiring. Caldera can have either a single cable light or a dual-cable light. Either way, try disconnecting any and all light cables from your controller and see if that resolves the tripping issue. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Sounds like the wiring is messed up. Pics would help. Make sure that the white wire that connects to terminal #5 in the control box is hooked up to the neutral of the gfci breaker (I think the 30 but make sure on the diagram) and not connected to the bus bar in the sub-panel. Dan, The neutral (white wire) is connected to the "load neutral" on the center of the 20 amp gfci. and it is connected to the #5 on the terminal block. There is no lead from the neutral bus bar to the neutral on the control box. I have a ground rod at the sub panel and it is connected to a sep ground bus. I have a ground wire from that bus to the ground lug in the control panel. I also have a ground rod by the tub and a ground wire from that rod to the the bus on the left outer part of the control box. I have a ground wire from the ground bus of the sub panel to the neutral/ground bus in the feeder panel. (Could this be causing the problem?) The load leads for the 20 amp GFCI are connected to #1 and #3. The load leads for the 30 amp (plain breaker) are connected to #2 and #4 Other wires in the smaller contol board are for the heater. This is the newer heater contol board and I removed the spade connectors and put one wire into the H1 term and the other into the H2 holders and then the green ground wire I screwed to the ground between the 2 terminal blocks. All this is powered from a sub panel in my garage that is fed from my main panel on the other side of the house. The panel inside the garage has one 50 amp GFCI and 1 other circuit right now that powers a freezer. I fed the outside sub panel with all 3 leads from the 50 GFCI and then put a ground from the neutral/ground bus on the inside to the ground bus on the outside panel. (the outside has 2 bus bars, one for neutral and the other for grounds. The ground bus has 3 wires on it. one from the outside ground rod. one to the contol box and the other to the inside feeder box. The neutral bus has one from the feeder 50 gfci and one to the 20 Amp gfci in the same sub panel. Thanks again all, Let me know what else to look for. Im sure its something simple, just not sure what. Don On the 2002 the neutral wire on the #5 terminal is supposed to be connected to the load neutral on the 30 amp breaker, not the 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDfromTN Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 On the 2002 the neutral wire on the #5 terminal is supposed to be connected to the load neutral on the 30 amp breaker, not the 20. Thanks, BUT someone before me replaced the 30 GFCI with a 30 regular breaker (no load neutral). I will go get a 30 GFCI today and install it as you describe. And yes that is how the illustration that came with the controls shows it. I have #5 run to the 20 which is a GFCI. Will check back in later and advise. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDfromTN Posted September 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 BINGO BOYS!!! I went as advised and purchased a 30 amp GFCI and installed it. Moved the neutral from the 20 to the 30 and Butta Bing..Butta Boom. All held and is holding and working. Did this and went to dinner with friends last night. While we were gone water temp went from 84 to 90 (where I first set it to test). Jumped in for a few minutes and to test all jets etc. Raised temp to 100 and this AM its on 99. I want to thank John and Dan for their valuble input on this! And thank all the contributors to this board for their time and sharing. This and other Msg boards are a great use of the internet. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 BINGO BOYS!!! I went as advised and purchased a 30 amp GFCI and installed it. Moved the neutral from the 20 to the 30 and Butta Bing..Butta Boom. All held and is holding and working. Did this and went to dinner with friends last night. While we were gone water temp went from 84 to 90 (where I first set it to test). Jumped in for a few minutes and to test all jets etc. Raised temp to 100 and this AM its on 99. I want to thank John and Dan for their valuble input on this! And thank all the contributors to this board for their time and sharing. This and other Msg boards are a great use of the internet. Don Wow, I can't believe that someone would actually remove a GFCI breaker and replace it with a non-GFCI breaker. No, actually, I believe it. It should never happen, but I see it all the time. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDfromTN Posted September 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 BINGO BOYS!!! I went as advised and purchased a 30 amp GFCI and installed it. Moved the neutral from the 20 to the 30 and Butta Bing..Butta Boom. All held and is holding and working. Did this and went to dinner with friends last night. While we were gone water temp went from 84 to 90 (where I first set it to test). Jumped in for a few minutes and to test all jets etc. Raised temp to 100 and this AM its on 99. I want to thank John and Dan for their valuble input on this! And thank all the contributors to this board for their time and sharing. This and other Msg boards are a great use of the internet. Don Wow, I can't believe that someone would actually remove a GFCI breaker and replace it with a non-GFCI breaker. No, actually, I believe it. It should never happen, but I see it all the time. John Amazing isnt it. This tub was located on the patio of a walk out basement of a 1.5 million dollar home overlooking a lake on the TN river. With that in mind it is several miles from the nearest hardware store. I can just imagine a repairman saying to himself..... "I have this regular 30 and it will work..". Another thing that was suprising to me when I went to get this tub was that the 20/30 sub panel was mounted in the equipment compartment next to the blower!!!!! I mounted it on the back of my garage wall about 14' away and in site of the tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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