Price Information

[Live4logan]

So I am completely frustrated!! I am a bargain shopper of sorts and like to do price comparisons before I purchase but when looking into purchasing a hot tub apparently I have to contact each store individually so that they can try and sell to me!! Not very impressed, at this point I may switch my theory and find a store that has prices available on line and buy from there!! Argh!

Can you guys help me out?

Right now I am looking for a beachcomber 540. I am not too concerned about features or colours because the base model has what I need, I want the best price!! I live in Ontario about two hours north of Toronto so, yes, my winters do get cold.

Thank you in advance if you can help me out because the sellers do not want to!!

[JerimiahR]

Buying a hot tub is something that really should be done in person. I would strongly caution anyone who was going to purchase a hot tub online. Communicating with a local dealer by email and such is fine, but you'll very rarely find hot tub prices given out on dealer websites. Pricing varies quite a bit throughout the country, continent, etc.

This may sound like a bit of salesmanship to some folks, but I'm going to be very honest. If I simply put prices on my website, and let people decide whether to buy my spa purely based on the picture and a price, I'd really be doing them a HUGE disservice. There is WAY more to buying a hot tub than simply, "Looks pretty. And it's cheap." Some spas are worth spending money on, others aren't worth picking up for free. Lots of things vary from brand to brand, and your dealer can make a big difference too.

Not to mention the fact that not all seats were created equally. You really should sit in the hot tub before you buy it, even if the spa is empty. Make sure you even like it before you go spending your money on it. Find out why that brand may or may not be popular in your area.

Anyone can set up a website with pictures and prices, but not just anybody is going to provide you with long term professional service on a product you'll likely spend over $6,000 for.

For cold climates like yours, I recommend spas like Hot Spring, Caldera, Sundance. Purely because the increased insulation and good electric efficiency.

[thinkxingu]

Hello There,

I've been watching this site and shopping for a while, and I have the same complaint: Most of the stores in my area don't even have their units priced on the floor!! I want to walk in to a dealer and look around without having to ask for each price, or if the price includes a cover, lifter, some chemicals, stairs, delivery, a smile and a kick in the butt, or what. In fact, I'm not sure I'm going to get the same price on different days or by talking to different people!! It's actually quite frustrating and one of the reasons I may end up buying from Costco or Home Depot, etc.

There's a commercial in my area that says something like, "imagine you went to a grocery store and the milk wasn't priced, so you ask the clerk and he says, 'well, what size fridge do you have? Where you gonna use it?' That's what windows companies do; they make you wait until you get to the house and then hit you with the high prices..." That's what I feel like.

Ughh.

S

[Live4logan]

Buying a hot tub is something that really should be done in person. I would strongly caution anyone who was going to purchase a hot tub online. Communicating with a local dealer by email and such is fine, but you'll very rarely find hot tub prices given out on dealer websites. Pricing varies quite a bit throughout the country, continent, etc.

This may sound like a bit of salesmanship to some folks, but I'm going to be very honest. If I simply put prices on my website, and let people decide whether to buy my spa purely based on the picture and a price, I'd really be doing them a HUGE disservice. There is WAY more to buying a hot tub than simply, "Looks pretty. And it's cheap." Some spas are worth spending money on, others aren't worth picking up for free. Lots of things vary from brand to brand, and your dealer can make a big difference too.

Not to mention the fact that not all seats were created equally. You really should sit in the hot tub before you buy it, even if the spa is empty. Make sure you even like it before you go spending your money on it. Find out why that brand may or may not be popular in your area.

Anyone can set up a website with pictures and prices, but not just anybody is going to provide you with long term professional service on a product you'll likely spend over $6,000 for.

For cold climates like yours, I recommend spas like Hot Spring, Caldera, Sundance. Purely because the increased insulation and good electric efficiency.

I understand that there numerous options and different things to be considered. I am actually looking into what stores I should check out. I would never buy anything with this type of price tag without it trying it out first. Let us compare it to buying a car. I can find out all the information I need before I go talk to the sales people, then when I get into the nitty gritty I go talk sales.

I decided to make a call and see if I could get any information. I asked for base model pricing on the specific model I wanted.

Did I get that answer NO, They guy tried to sell me everything else under the sun. I am not committed to buying a tub yet, I am seeing what I can afford to do. He also told me that the beachcomber would be great for my climate. This stuff I can research and there is documentation that I can read. The options are the last choices.

When I asked the guy if it was the best possible price he said yes, and guess what I have to take his word on it because I have no way of knowing. They say car salesmen are bad, but at least I know walking in the door what a base model Titan costs, from there I can decide what options I need. When the car sales man tries to see me a $30,000 truck for 50K I know I am being had. I also know from web pricing which dealerships I would like to go to because they advertise their prices and I can see right away what they are trying to sell.

At this point I am being told I am getting an amazing deal by someone that is making commission off the sale!! We live in a world of technology there is no reason that you should not be able to even go and find out what MSRP is by choosing what options you want. Talking to sales people blindly is not a very smart thing to do, not all sales people are crocked but when you are talking about money it is very hard to find someone that is willing to give it out.

[Hotrod]

Hello There,

I've been watching this site and shopping for a while, and I have the same complaint: Most of the stores in my area don't even have their units priced on the floor!! I want to walk in to a dealer and look around without having to ask for each price, or if the price includes a cover, lifter, some chemicals, stairs, delivery, a smile and a kick in the butt, or what. In fact, I'm not sure I'm going to get the same price on different days or by talking to different people!! It's actually quite frustrating and one of the reasons I may end up buying from Costco or Home Depot, etc.

There's a commercial in my area that says something like, "imagine you went to a grocery store and the milk wasn't priced, so you ask the clerk and he says, 'well, what size fridge do you have? Where you gonna use it?' That's what windows companies do; they make you wait until you get to the house and then hit you with the high prices..." That's what I feel like.

Ughh.

S

I understand the frustrations people can sometimes feel when shopping for a tub. Its unfortunate in these times that due to SOME unsavory dealers and horror stories that we feel that sales people or a stores sole purpose is to lie, cheat and rip people off. Having said this I am sure there are some companies out there that will do that, however I know there are lots of good ones that care. I agree with JerimiahR, that the good ones ask the questions so they can point you in the right direction. A hot tub is a personal item and everyones needs will be different a proffessinal and careing dealer wil help you buy a tub, if he or she doesnt that would be a Huge disservice. Pictures & to good to be true low prices is not the way to buy a tub. We can always always always find a lower price on anything if we look hard enough my question is why and do I feel comfortable with the answer. A hot tub is a fair size investment for most people do the homework, let people help, make an educated decision.

If you have no expectations at all buy on line or where ever...but buyer beware.

[Live4logan]

I understand the frustrations people can sometimes feel when shopping for a tub. Its unfortunate in these times that due to SOME unsavory dealers and horror stories that we feel that sales people or a stores sole purpose is to lie, cheat and rip people off. Having said this I am sure there are some companies out there that will do that, however I know there are lots of good ones that care. I agree with JerimiahR, that the good ones ask the questions so they can point you in the right direction. A hot tub is a personal item and everyones needs will be different a proffessinal and careing dealer wil help you buy a tub, if he or she doesnt that would be a Huge disservice. Pictures & to good to be true low prices is not the way to buy a tub. We can always always always find a lower price on anything if we look hard enough my question is why and do I feel comfortable with the answer. A hot tub is a fair size investment for most people do the homework, let people help, make an educated decision.

If you have no expectations at all buy on line or where ever...but buyer beware.

My question to you is how do I know that the dealer is unsavoury. How can a buyer beware when information is not available? Am I supposed to find the guy with the lowest sales, because you know for sure he saying things that he should not or find the guy who has the prettiest smile? Do I buy based off of a companies appearance? I have absolutely nothing!! There is no where to go to find this out, even in this forum I am being told to go talk to salesmen, and being told that I should be looking at different brands. thinkxingu has it right, you will be told different prices by different people. I can prove this in the sales world. The truck that I purchased I had my friend go in and try and get the best deal that they could they walked out with a 27K price, I walked in guess what my price was 21K, and here I had the information I needed, what happened if I bought something blindly, the guy originally wanted 31K.

No matter what if you sell a certain brand you are going to tell that it is the best, and you will have a preference to certain features. Some people can sell icicles to an eskimo. I can tell you this much I know I do not need an icicle!!

[reeffreak]

I wanted a D1 bad. The price my dealer quoted on a D1 tub swung $2450 inside of a weekend. So I went to the internet to see what I could find out. Not there. Nada. Nothing. Guess what? I don't own a D1.

Looks like dealers have exclusive territories to market tubs, and don't appear to have any guard rails regarding mfg MSRP and MAP. This gives the dealer almost complete control of the customer experience when s/he is at the point of purchase. Risky business.

Around here that customer experience is the blaring TV commercial with the gal-too-old-for-a-bathing-suit IN a bathing suit yelling about the latest weekend blowout of 80% off tubs, "come on down, free hot dogs, rock wall, face painting, and the tilt-a-whirl is even running!! Best prices of the year!! Blah blah" Then the dealer changes names 2 weeks later and it all starts over. Bleh!

For some reason the industry appears to defend this model- instead of fixing it, it's easier to tell the customer why he is wrong. Savvy shoppers have no mechanism to cut through the bull to get real info. No other dealers in town. Out of town dealer will sell but won't deliver, local dealer PO'd because you bought elsewhere so you have no warranty. The customer has no alternative. So they buy big box, direct, or just do without.

It's NOT a pricing game (like everybody on here assumes). It's about trust. And if I, Joe Customer, cannot find any pricing guidance for a major product purchase, I trust that I'm getting screwed. Period.

[pbartha]

I wanted a D1 bad. The price my dealer quoted on a D1 tub swung $2450 inside of a weekend. So I went to the internet to see what I could find out. Not there. Nada. Nothing. Guess what? I don't own a D1.

Looks like dealers have exclusive territories to market tubs, and don't appear to have any guard rails regarding mfg MSRP and MAP. This gives the dealer almost complete control of the customer experience when s/he is at the point of purchase. Risky business.

Around here that customer experience is the blaring TV commercial with the gal-too-old-for-a-bathing-suit IN a bathing suit yelling about the latest weekend blowout of 80% off tubs, "come on down, free hot dogs, rock wall, face painting, and the tilt-a-whirl is even running!! Best prices of the year!! Blah blah" Then the dealer changes names 2 weeks later and it all starts over. Bleh!

For some reason the industry appears to defend this model- instead of fixing it, it's easier to tell the customer why he is wrong. Savvy shoppers have no mechanism to cut through the bull to get real info. No other dealers in town. Out of town dealer will sell but won't deliver, local dealer PO'd because you bought elsewhere so you have no warranty. The customer has no alternative. So they buy big box, direct, or just do without.

It's NOT a pricing game (like everybody on here assumes). It's about trust. And if I, Joe Customer, cannot find any pricing guidance for a major product purchase, I trust that I'm getting screwed. Period.

Yup, that is how I feel too. I actually have sales people get mad at me because I know what I want and they don't want to sell it to me. I posted on here about looking for information and feedback on a brand and was told by the people who know all to consider other tubs that were 2x more expensive.

My favorite line from sales people is "how much were you thinking of spending?" or "what is your budget?" and at the same

not wanting to tell you how much the tubs cost. Sometimes you are browsing and just want to know what it costs.

It was like pulling teeth to get the Arctic dealer to tell me how f'ing much. They wanted to talk about value and operating costs, I said fine but how much? It's like they are embarrassed to tell you and are avoiding it.

The worst part is no one wants to collect the data to find out if the high cost tubs are any better, I think they are afraid of finding out, like that a Toyota is more reliable and lower priced than a Mercedes. Plenty of people still like and want the Mercedes and I think you should make your own decision based on as much information as you can get and in the end do what will bring you the most joy. Great thing about this country is there is a market for everything.

I have a Ford and I love it, I was just using those brands to illustrate my point.

[n1oty]

I wanted a D1 bad. The price my dealer quoted on a D1 tub swung $2450 inside of a weekend. So I went to the internet to see what I could find out. Not there. Nada. Nothing. Guess what? I don't own a D1.

Looks like dealers have exclusive territories to market tubs, and don't appear to have any guard rails regarding mfg MSRP and MAP. This gives the dealer almost complete control of the customer experience when s/he is at the point of purchase. Risky business.

Around here that customer experience is the blaring TV commercial with the gal-too-old-for-a-bathing-suit IN a bathing suit yelling about the latest weekend blowout of 80% off tubs, "come on down, free hot dogs, rock wall, face painting, and the tilt-a-whirl is even running!! Best prices of the year!! Blah blah" Then the dealer changes names 2 weeks later and it all starts over. Bleh!

For some reason the industry appears to defend this model- instead of fixing it, it's easier to tell the customer why he is wrong. Savvy shoppers have no mechanism to cut through the bull to get real info. No other dealers in town. Out of town dealer will sell but won't deliver, local dealer PO'd because you bought elsewhere so you have no warranty. The customer has no alternative. So they buy big box, direct, or just do without.

It's NOT a pricing game (like everybody on here assumes). It's about trust. And if I, Joe Customer, cannot find any pricing guidance for a major product purchase, I trust that I'm getting screwed. Period.

A couple of the dealers that I actually perform service work for do have posted prices beside the tubs on the showroom floor and have flyers with pricing that people can pick up in the showroom. Most of the major manufacturers do have an MSRP that can be readily determined with a phone call. Beyond that, the internet is rife with people comparing notes on hot tub pricing. I know on the Roberts Hot Tub web site, I see this happening quite a bit.

In fairness to the dealers, many of them do not have the ability to purchase a tub from the factory for the lowest possible price. They have a lot of variability due to the costs of floor planning, shipping, volume discounts, etc. A smaller dealer is probably paying more for the same model tub than a large dealer who gets volume discounts. A dealer in a position to pay the factory cash for tubs is in a better position than a dealer who relies on floor plan financing. A dealer who is close to the factory pays less for shipping than the dealer who is further away.

I know you don't want to hear my opinion again on why the dealer model is better for the industry and the consumer, so I'm going to copy part of an exchange I had last November with Alan Vasicek over on the Roberts Hot Tub forum. If you want to read the entire exchange, go over there and do a search on "avasicek". He only made two posts, so it won't be hard to find. Alan was essentially the head of service for the old Hydro Spa and now again for the phoenix-like Premium Leisure that rose from the ashes of Hydro Spa. What really intrigues me about Alan and his comments is the fact that he has been involved in the management of two company's, the first a major Costco supplier and the second is one that, according to Alan, has grown to appreciate the superiority of the dealer based model. I disagree with much of Alan's views regarding the old Hydro Spa and the manner in which the BK hurt so many consumers, but I can't argue with the man regarding his opinion concerning the superiority of the dealer based model since, to the best of my knowledge, he is the only management type floating around these boards who has ACTUAL corporate experience dealing with the mass merchant model and the dealer model. Here's the salient quote from Alan:

>>>>>>>>The being sold at a dealer hasnt transformed the spa, but the above has. Dont twist my words, or your own. If I offered you Spa A from a mass merchant, and that exact same spa from a dealer, can you honestly say any industry insider that posts on any of these boards would say "ooh ooh, mass merchant all the way!!". Come on John, we both know the value of the dealer based system and understand the negative image of mass merchants. The being sold at a dealer adds the additional value associated on these very boards. Dealer sales, service, local business, support after the sale, all the positives, none of the negatives associated with mass merchant sales and lack of support. Its not the only change made, but an additional change made, all for the betterment of the end user.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I have added the bold underline to highlight the salient topic.

John

[reeffreak]

John, I'm not arguing that dealer models aren't better than mass merchant. I'm telling you that the dealer practice in my market does not, in any way, lend itself to a hassle and worry free shopping experience.

There is a value proposition in buying a dealer tub- agreed. But there is a whole segment of shoppers looking for a simple, no-frills purchase experience that would like to make an educated decision. Mass merchants take the price question out of the equation. Yes they are going to get the pricepoint shopper. Fine. the dealer shouldn't want them anyway.

But the customers that are being left out are those that have the cash, and aren't afraid to pay $$ for a better product and better service but will not open their wallet unless they can make an informed decision. In the meantime the dealer scrapes by getting whatever markup they can selling to shoppers looking for a payment book. Not too many Range Rovers in the parking lot.

I am not going to purchase a $6-10k toy from a vendor who has an exclusive on a market, with no available pricing guidance, and having to deal with a carnival atmosphere. I'm not alone.

I tried hard to get MSRP on D1. I've even seen the question asked straight up on this board, and the question was never answered. I'm sure it's company policy.

[Hotrod]

Live4logan

Information is available, Better Business Bureau, friends who own tubs, fourms like these, up to date testamonials,...If you are serious about making a purchase and you ask the dealer for some customer references the good ones should have no problem providing you with people you can speak too... If you are in a store and receiving a presentation chances are several existing customers are in the store having water samples done...speak with them....This is a big decision...take the time and educate yourself....It seems to me the main thing everyone is concerned about is a bargain or a good deal or the best price.blah blah blah blah blah ...these things are part of it dont get me wrong...WE all work hard for our money and so does the guy selling the tub...the but what about the qualityof the product,the life of the spa, the warranty, the comfort, the service,the energy cost, the water care and cost, the type of massage therapy,the dealership, his family,...my point is there are alot of other things, in my opinion more important ...these things are what make it a bargain or a good deal.

[thinkxingu]

Hotrod,

I hear exactly what you're saying, but from what I've read it would be hard to go wrong with any of the tubs from the 'better' brands, e.g. Hot Springs, Bullfrog, Sundance, etc. If that's the case, and if dealers don't post pricing, how can a consumer be sure that he is getting a fair deal. I was about to pop for a Sundance Burlington, but I received three different prices at the same dealer within a week ("this price includes stairs, chemicals, a cover, and delivery, oh wait, it only includes..." "Who told you that it includes stairs?" etc. etc.)! If the prices were posted, and fair, I'd have it on my back deck right now.

S

[Hotrod]

Hotrod,

I hear exactly what you're saying, but from what I've read it would be hard to go wrong with any of the tubs from the 'better' brands, e.g. Hot Springs, Bullfrog, Sundance, etc. If that's the case, and if dealers don't post pricing, how can a consumer be sure that he is getting a fair deal. I was about to pop for a Sundance Burlington, but I received three different prices at the same dealer within a week ("this price includes stairs, chemicals, a cover, and delivery, oh wait, it only includes..." "Who told you that it includes stairs?" etc. etc.)! If the prices were posted, and fair, I'd have it on my back deck right now.

S

3 different prices from the same store is not good that would probably make me look elsewhere.I think most top notch dealers would have a 30 day exchange policy and or a price guarrantee..I would be asking that... it may help with the frustration.

I also think that most dealers atleast the ones I have seen have posted prices.

In the end after all the info is presented you and only you will have to make that decision if its a fair deal...Ive purchased items before where I have looked on line went from store to store tried to compare apples to apples...I have sometimes been frustrated but at some point Ive made up my mind I want the item...looked at the pros and cons and finally pulled the trigger...did I always get a good deal??? In my mind I did..could I have bought it for a bit less somewhere else???? maybe...Is it that important I care what my neighbor or my brother inlaw thinks? ...not in my opinion.

I do admit that after buying something I have continued to search for the item just for my piece of mind that I did good.

[Live4logan]

Live4logan

Information is available, Better Business Bureau, friends who own tubs, fourms like these, up to date testamonials,...If you are serious about making a purchase and you ask the dealer for some customer references the good ones should have no problem providing you with people you can speak too... If you are in a store and receiving a presentation chances are several existing customers are in the store having water samples done...speak with them....This is a big decision...take the time and educate yourself....It seems to me the main thing everyone is concerned about is a bargain or a good deal or the best price.blah blah blah blah blah ...these things are part of it dont get me wrong...WE all work hard for our money and so does the guy selling the tub...the but what about the qualityof the product,the life of the spa, the warranty, the comfort, the service,the energy cost, the water care and cost, the type of massage therapy,the dealership, his family,...my point is there are alot of other things, in my opinion more important ...these things are what make it a bargain or a good deal.

I am not cheap by anymeans. I am looking for value. If something is gonna cost me an extra 5K but safe me 300/yr I am willing to purchase it. I live at minimum an hour away from everywhere. At this point if I have to go from store to store to compare it is going to cost me a fortune in gas money and not to mention milleage on my vehicle. I understand bulk buy information but that is not an excuse for not posting values on the net. Everything in the world now a days works this way.

I know what I want and what I actually do need. What I do not know is where I am going to get the value for my buck. Not everything is reported to the BBB, if a guy buys a hot tub and the sales men makes it seem like it is hurting him to give that price out is he really going to go research it? In this day and age who has time to visit 50 stores and listen to a salesmens spiel about what he thinks that I need. If the guy sells artic spa he is going to tell me that it is the best and this why, the guy that sells beachcomber is going to say it is the best.

The features and options are things that I can look up and understand. I can find that information out but what are they worth. I have been told a hybrid is worth a lot more then a regular one, but when I called the hybrid upgarde was only $700 on one model.

If enough consumers get upset about the condition of this industry they will have to change. There are thousands of people with out jobs right now that could design a website that allows you to pick the options, understand what the benefits are and give you a final MSRP, and do it all in under a week. This does not have to be the final price it is a ball bark, of course stores that buy bulk are going to be able to sell for cheaper. Right now, I do not even know if it is worth my time looking at them. I have no idea if I can afford it because I do not know how much they cost!! Now I think about it, the information should already be there. When I go into a store how does the salesmen know which features cost how much, oh wait, he goes to his computer and selects the options!!!

As far as I am concerned, not posting prices on your advertisements is a scam. The only reason not to do it is to hide information from the consumer. A crocked salesmens worst enemy is an educated consumer. A vehicle is more complex than a hot tub and there are way more things to consider, I can find anything I want out about them including MSRP. Yes, I still have to go to the dealer to find out about warranties and the extra's but at least I know if I want a Nissan, a Chevy, or a Ford so I know which dealership to go to before I begin.

[Hotrod]

Live4logan

Information is available, Better Business Bureau, friends who own tubs, fourms like these, up to date testamonials,...If you are serious about making a purchase and you ask the dealer for some customer references the good ones should have no problem providing you with people you can speak too... If you are in a store and receiving a presentation chances are several existing customers are in the store having water samples done...speak with them....This is a big decision...take the time and educate yourself....It seems to me the main thing everyone is concerned about is a bargain or a good deal or the best price.blah blah blah blah blah ...these things are part of it dont get me wrong...WE all work hard for our money and so does the guy selling the tub...the but what about the qualityof the product,the life of the spa, the warranty, the comfort, the service,the energy cost, the water care and cost, the type of massage therapy,the dealership, his family,...my point is there are alot of other things, in my opinion more important ...these things are what make it a bargain or a good deal.

I am not cheap by anymeans. I am looking for value. If something is gonna cost me an extra 5K but safe me 300/yr I am willing to purchase it. I live at minimum an hour away from everywhere. At this point if I have to go from store to store to compare it is going to cost me a fortune in gas money and not to mention milleage on my vehicle. I understand bulk buy information but that is not an excuse for not posting values on the net. Everything in the world now a days works this way.

I know what I want and what I actually do need. What I do not know is where I am going to get the value for my buck. Not everything is reported to the BBB, if a guy buys a hot tub and the sales men makes it seem like it is hurting him to give that price out is he really going to go research it? In this day and age who has time to visit 50 stores and listen to a salesmens spiel about what he thinks that I need. If the guy sells artic spa he is going to tell me that it is the best and this why, the guy that sells beachcomber is going to say it is the best.

The features and options are things that I can look up and understand. I can find that information out but what are they worth. I have been told a hybrid is worth a lot more then a regular one, but when I called the hybrid upgarde was only $700 on one model.

If enough consumers get upset about the condition of this industry they will have to change. There are thousands of people with out jobs right now that could design a website that allows you to pick the options, understand what the benefits are and give you a final MSRP, and do it all in under a week. This does not have to be the final price it is a ball bark, of course stores that buy bulk are going to be able to sell for cheaper. Right now, I do not even know if it is worth my time looking at them. I have no idea if I can afford it because I do not know how much they cost!! Now I think about it, the information should already be there. When I go into a store how does the salesmen know which features cost how much, oh wait, he goes to his computer and selects the options!!!

As far as I am concerned, not posting prices on your advertisements is a scam. The only reason not to do it is to hide information from the consumer. A crocked salesmens worst enemy is an educated consumer. A vehicle is more complex than a hot tub and there are way more things to consider, I can find anything I want out about them including MSRP. Yes, I still have to go to the dealer to find out about warranties and the extra's but at least I know if I want a Nissan, a Chevy, or a Ford so I know which dealership to go to before I begin.

Point well taken I thought everyone would have a price on there tub or answer the simple question what is the base price....In regards to the Hbrid you mentioned $700 is the price after the factory offsets the items included in the Hybrid version...you mentioned value $4038 is the value, however its only value if you see it for example part of the Hybrid is the Perma seal foundation $449 every Beachcomber tub is built with it, however lots of companies dont seal the bottom of the tub or use an inferior method to do so.....it is a sales persons job to build the value in this item and point out that with out it there is a possibility that critters ie mice, rats,wasp could decide that this is a great place to live and possibly start a family. If one has never owned a tub most would not even think about this unless it was pointed out..I think most would agree this is good vallue.

[bizdoc]

When i needed to replace my 20 year old spa last year, I tried to apply some strategies I used in other purchases. One is the buy cheaper and replace more often vs. the buy expensive and keep for a long time. For computer and electronic equipment, I have tended to move downmarket, looking for cheaper models. Rather than spending $2000-$3000 on a high end model, I get a $1000 model that does what I need. In 3 years, another $1000 will buy a model that now has more features than the earlier $3000 model. So rather than looking for a $12,000+/- spa, I can get a $6,000 spa and replace it sooner with one that has new features not previously available.

Another high-ticket strategy is to look locally then price shop online and look for a local price match. The last 6 cars i purchased were bought over the phone. A couple were from the local dealers, the rest were from out of town and even out of state dealers. The local dealers have been quite happy to have my service business.

Over the 20 year life of my previous spa, I found dealers in town quite happy to service a "not bought here" spa. For those with a bit of skill, (and with deference to the pros out there), I found it not too difficult to replace pumps, heater elements and solenoids.

For my purchase a year ago, I wound up with a Premium Leisure Lexxus spa purchased from a local dealer. I was, however, able to get them to match the price from an online dealer and haul away my old spa. The local dealer went out of business a few months after my purchase, but Premium Leisure stepped right up with the one issue I had. There were a few blisters in one area of the spa. Rather than replacing the spa, a totally invisible repair was made. Everything else runs fine. I am confident that the off the shelf spa pack (Balboa) and pumps will give comparable service to other brands, even those costing significantly more. There has been a lot on the board about their prior life with Cosctco, but the new company seems to be providing a quality product with a focus on a dealer model rather than mass merchandisers. (Their new marketing VP came over from Watkins). It may be worth a look and save you some $.

[lree32]

Live4logan

Information is available, Better Business Bureau, friends who own tubs, fourms like these, up to date testamonials,...If you are serious about making a purchase and you ask the dealer for some customer references the good ones should have no problem providing you with people you can speak too... If you are in a store and receiving a presentation chances are several existing customers are in the store having water samples done...speak with them....This is a big decision...take the time and educate yourself....It seems to me the main thing everyone is concerned about is a bargain or a good deal or the best price.blah blah blah blah blah ...these things are part of it dont get me wrong...WE all work hard for our money and so does the guy selling the tub...the but what about the qualityof the product,the life of the spa, the warranty, the comfort, the service,the energy cost, the water care and cost, the type of massage therapy,the dealership, his family,...my point is there are alot of other things, in my opinion more important ...these things are what make it a bargain or a good deal.

I am not cheap by anymeans. I am looking for value. If something is gonna cost me an extra 5K but safe me 300/yr I am willing to purchase it. I live at minimum an hour away from everywhere. At this point if I have to go from store to store to compare it is going to cost me a fortune in gas money and not to mention milleage on my vehicle. I understand bulk buy information but that is not an excuse for not posting values on the net. Everything in the world now a days works this way.

I know what I want and what I actually do need. What I do not know is where I am going to get the value for my buck. Not everything is reported to the BBB, if a guy buys a hot tub and the sales men makes it seem like it is hurting him to give that price out is he really going to go research it? In this day and age who has time to visit 50 stores and listen to a salesmens spiel about what he thinks that I need. If the guy sells artic spa he is going to tell me that it is the best and this why, the guy that sells beachcomber is going to say it is the best.

The features and options are things that I can look up and understand. I can find that information out but what are they worth. I have been told a hybrid is worth a lot more then a regular one, but when I called the hybrid upgarde was only $700 on one model.

If enough consumers get upset about the condition of this industry they will have to change. There are thousands of people with out jobs right now that could design a website that allows you to pick the options, understand what the benefits are and give you a final MSRP, and do it all in under a week. This does not have to be the final price it is a ball bark, of course stores that buy bulk are going to be able to sell for cheaper. Right now, I do not even know if it is worth my time looking at them. I have no idea if I can afford it because I do not know how much they cost!! Now I think about it, the information should already be there. When I go into a store how does the salesmen know which features cost how much, oh wait, he goes to his computer and selects the options!!!

As far as I am concerned, not posting prices on your advertisements is a scam. The only reason not to do it is to hide information from the consumer. A crocked salesmens worst enemy is an educated consumer. A vehicle is more complex than a hot tub and there are way more things to consider, I can find anything I want out about them including MSRP. Yes, I still have to go to the dealer to find out about warranties and the extra's but at least I know if I want a Nissan, a Chevy, or a Ford so I know which dealership to go to before I begin.

So true!! Thank you for highlighting this. I am trying to comparison shop and it is impossible. I've posted twice now asking someone, anyone to let me know if a price on a Saratoga Grand 09 floor model is a good deal at $7495 and no one will answer. How do I know??!! I am at the point where I almost don't want to buy a tub now.

[bob81]

Just a gross oversimplification, but....

If you buy a spa from a dealer, you are going to pay anywhere from 1k-3k more than you would from a mass retailer. For this dealer margin, you get the added values listed in bold above. Things like local support after the sale, knowledgable sales staff, etc etc.

It basically comes down to a personal decision on whether the added money is worth it to you as a consumer. Of if you are comfortable enough without having a local safety net. I installed the electrical for my spa myself, and I feel secure that barring a disaster, I will be able to handle any minor repairs or replace a pump that goes out after my warranty ends. Combine that with the return policies of some mass retailers, and the dealer margin was no longer enough of a "value added" proposition for me.

Now I do share in the deisre for more readily availale information for hot tubs. This is a big purchase. Some spend upwards of 15k for their spas. A car in the same price range has all kinds of info available. Blue book value, reliabilty reports, and expert reviews. You can go to cars.com and peruse inventories and prices. You can compare local dealers of the same brand create a bidding war to get your business.

None of that is available to consumers of hot tubs. Instead you to visit the dealer, beleive that they are on the honor system and giving you a good price. There is no consumer reports for hot tubs, or a hotubs.com that can give you comparitive data.

[Eric W.]

Here in Chicago we have 2 big chains, Great Escape and American Sale. Between the two, they have many of the major brands covered. They both show pricing next to most if not all of the tubs on display, at least the locations I visited. That worked to their benefit because we stopped at one to pick up chemicals, and saw a nice tub that was close to our tax refund. If there was no pricing, we would have never given a hot tub a second thought.