Arctic Vs. Artesian

[cr4fty.p5ych0]

Hello to all...

I posted in the Water chemistry section regarding the differences in these manufatures water quality components and would like to take that discussion a step farther here. My wife and I have made up our minds that we will be purchasing a spa from one of these companys. Through research on this board we understand, and based upon our own testing agree, that the "wet test" is the single most important factor in our decision. Unfortunately the nearest Arctic dealer is a 4+ hour drive away. At this time we have wet tested the Dove Canyon and found it to be very comfortable. This is really an understatement as the comparison to other spa's we wet tested was not even close. We know we would be happy with this unit but feel that we can get a slightly higher quality spa with more options for about the same price by going with the Arctic (Klondiker). My goal of this post is to determine how much better and if the additional options would out weigh some of the negatives. If so than we will make the 4 hour drive and actually wet test the Arctic prior to committing.

Arctic positives

1. Onzen System

2. Dual (His/hers) loungers

3. Therapy Air

4. Forever Floor

5. Better insullation

6. Chiller

7. Lourvered Doors

Regarding 6 and 7 we live in the desert and our summer temps are always over 100 degrees. Due to this, these features were reccomended by the Arctic dealer and are not available on the Artesian.

Artesian positives

1. Direct Flow system with five pumps and seperate seat controls

2. Dealer and service from same people (right down the street)

3. Built in slot for Nature 2 Cartridge (also a negative considering the "special" stick costs $40 more)

Arctic Negatives

1. Longer delievery time (6 to 8 weeks vs. 1 to 2 weeks)

2. Delaler farther away when service is needed

3. Three pumps and no individual seat controls

Artesian Negatives

1. Ground prep more intensive and costly due to no forever floor

2. No chiller

3. No salt system (but could add something like the Genesis)

4. Poorer insulation (may be a positive since it won't have chiller?)

Closing comments/questions

For discussion lets assume that the Arctic will cost $2,500 (US) more but I honestly believe when it is all said and done it will not be that much. Also, consider that the warranties will be identical (5 years parts and labor). Are the "positives" worth this when compared to the negatives? Has anyone out there actually wet tested both of these units?

Thanks in advance and if I left anything out or if any additional questions are needed let me know and I will answer the best I can. Thanks!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Are the "positives" worth this when compared to the negatives?

While I haven't really compared the two I think you're taking a good approach by being analytical about this but I think some of those positives and negatives are largely perceived and you need to be sure they're truly what you think are important and not just what you've been convinced are important. For instance, I personally would never buy a 2 lounge spa so for me that is a negative, not a positive (lounges take up a lot of space, 1 is fine, 2 is not a good idea IMO) however maybe you're the type that down the line will be happy to have two though I'll bet even if you got a spa with just one it would be used less than half the time. You also list the separate Artesian pumps as a positive but I think that's mostly a Marketing approach more than anything. I could argue that if the jets feel equally fine on both I'd rather only have 3 pumps as down the line you have far greater chance of having a pump to replace on the Artesian and you also have to have all sides accessible that way. I'd consider that a neutral point. The chiller and louvered doors may be necessary for Arctic spas in the summer but I wouldn't put that on the positive side because Artesian simply doesn't have it because they don't need it with their insulating method so I'd consider that a neutral point as well. As far as Arctic being better insulated, that's an opinion and I'd consider that neutral too. As far as the Arctic dealer being further away, I would simply ask them to put in writing if there would be a trip charge for warranty work and ask the same of the Artesian dealer and factor that in more than the actual distance issue.

Take all the information you have and utilize it but keep in mind some of this is what they say is an important difference and IMO a few of those points really shouldn't have much/any bearing on the decision if I were the one looking. In the end you'd probably be happy with either so its not like you're trying to avoid either one but still yet you want the spa that is best for you so take your time and try to wet test if possible.

[cr4fty.p5ych0]

Thanks spatech...you make some good points.

I already planned on having whichever dealer put the no trip charge in writing and in the back of my mind agreed that the two loungers were probably a waste of space. Its going to be just as much my wifes spa as mine and she felt having two was a nice idea. We do not envision having very large gatherings and if we do it woud just have to get get cozy

The unfortunate part about the wet test is that the spa we would actually get is an upgrade to the one we can test and the upgrade would have more jets. With this in mind the wet test would only tell us if the seating was confortable or if we "floated" and would do little in regard to actual jet position and power. I do however see your point with regard to "less to be fixed" and can only say that we were happy with the power and contol on the Artesian.

Point well taken and agreed on the chiller.....Does anybody know how this device actually works and how fast it can "drop" the temp?

Anyway thanks again and I'm hoping to recieve other points of view from the knowlegable people here!

[bash]

I also had these two brands as my "final two", before finally settling on the Arctic. That's no knock against the Artesian...either way, it's a good tub.

You've done a fine job listing the pros/cons, which is what I did on paper, but that's exactly what those are: on-paper representations of the tubs. Ultimately, what made the decision was the "feel" of the tub, and that's something you just can't establish on paper.

We wet tested the Arctic Summit, the Artesian Grand Cayman and the Artesian Piper Glen. The main observations that came from the wet tests were as follows:

-Arctic had more confined seating, whereas both Artesians were more "open concept"

-Arctic's big jets felt better (slightly more powerful, better "twisting" of the water stream into the muscle) than Artesian's big jets

-Arctic had a more layered seating structure (i.e. several different heights) while the Artesian seat's height changes were more subtle.

I don't think any of the above observations are pros or cons, they're just more personal preferences. It came down to the fact that we liked the confined seating, we liked the big jets on the Arctic and we liked the layered seating, so that's how the decision was made.

The dealer in our case were the same distance either way. Your situation is a bit different, and I do feel that dealer support/availability is a key component in the decision-making process. Ask about service charges per visit, response time for service calls and things like that. If one guy charges $90/visit and says that wait time could be upwards of a week or two whether you have something as small as a burnt light bulb or as big as a major leak, then you might want to lean the other way.

Hope that helps a bit. Good luck with the search!

[cr4fty.p5ych0]

Thanks bash...Great stuff

Yes ..... I think out of the items on my "list" the dealer/service is the most important and I highly doubt the guy that is 4 hours away will jump at the opportunity to drive that far to change a bulb. We also worry that after such a drive he may in some cases need to order parts which delays the repair even further. This is not an option for us and it is extremely disappointing that we will in all probability be "settling" for a tub that comes in second for this reason. Like I said earlier though, we don’t need a pity party as we were very happy with the Artesian. Just would probably be even more thrilled with the Arctic…

The info you posted is exactly how we were attempting to “feel” things especially the different level seating. The Artesian however “fit” us just fine in this regard but it sounds like the Arctic may be even better.

Out of curiosity did you get the Therapy Air? Can you explain it? And how do you like it?

Did you get Onzen and if so how is it working out for you?

Thanks again!

[bash]

Actually, I just ordered the tub last week, so I'm still about 4 weeks away from telling you how things are working out!

I didn't get the Therapy Air, only because a few friends of mine had them in their tubs and pretty much never used it. So to upgrade from a Signature to an Ultra wasn't really worth it. I didn't really research the feature that much, because I knew I wasn't going to get. From what I understand, it doesn't actually provide any type of massage....it's more just a "bubbly" feel (and I believe it pulls the air from outside, which may cool down the water faster...but don't quote me on that...hopefully one of the actual Therapy Air users could correct me here).

I decided not to get the Onzen, but the good thing about that is that you could always retrofit the Arctic later for the same price. I figured I'd give it a shot with regular chemicals, as my friends seemed to have good experiences with that. I'm not a huge risk taker, so I like to go with things that I know work first-hand, so I valued my friends' input quite a bit with this purchase.

[apradman]

Just a note, I purchased a Klondiker and have had it approx 1 month. My wife and I will mainly use the tub so that is why we got that model. All the seats are great and we switch around all the time. We got the air but no Onzen. We purchased the Legend model. Seating is fine deluxe lights are great. The area where you step in works great as a cool down area also. Enjoy which ever tub you get.

[RuBaDuB]

Actually, I just ordered the tub last week, so I'm still about 4 weeks away from telling you how things are working out!

I didn't get the Therapy Air, only because a few friends of mine had them in their tubs and pretty much never used it. So to upgrade from a Signature to an Ultra wasn't really worth it. I didn't really research the feature that much, because I knew I wasn't going to get. From what I understand, it doesn't actually provide any type of massage....it's more just a "bubbly" feel (and I believe it pulls the air from outside, which may cool down the water faster...but don't quote me on that...hopefully one of the actual Therapy Air users could correct me here).

I decided not to get the Onzen, but the good thing about that is that you could always retrofit the Arctic later for the same price. I figured I'd give it a shot with regular chemicals, as my friends seemed to have good experiences with that. I'm not a huge risk taker, so I like to go with things that I know work first-hand, so I valued my friends' input quite a bit with this purchase.

I have a Coyote spa, made by Arctic. We find the Therapy Air on it to be too noisy and "violent"...really splashes the water around and is rather annoying. After a few minutes, it starts shooting cold air at you which makes it even worse. So we don't use it. It wasn't an upgrade on ours, it just came with it.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Yes ..... I think out of the items on my "list" the dealer/service is the most important and I highly doubt the guy that is 4 hours away will jump at the opportunity to drive that far to change a bulb.

Wow, 4 hrs. I assumed you meant something like 40 minutes! I'd be very wary of that kind of distance but ask and get anything they say in writing if you’re really going to go this route.

As far as "therapy" air, its a blower and I think blowers blow (pun intended) though if you're in a really hot environment they can be useful to cool down the spa during hot days (not such a good idea when its not really hot outside) but other than that while I'd never pay extra for one it is certainly not a problem to have it (often when they go bad people simply unplug them and don't bother to replace them). I just don't see much value but it's a personal choice.

[cr4fty.p5ych0]

Thanks again everyone....

Great info on the Therapy air..

Yes spatech......MORE than 4 hours... I did a mapquest and the situation worsened substantially!!!

Let us know when you get it bash!

[cr4fty.p5ych0]

Just recieved some new information that I'm hoping for clarificarion on.

The Artesian salesman informed me that the ozone generator that is listed in the literature as an upgrade (ProPure Ozone system) is NOT the system that would be installed per his original price quote. I was told that they had nothing but problems with it and it has been on recall. This "Pro Pure" model uses a mixing chamber which is what the Arctic guy recommended and the model that is apparently included with the Arteisan uses a Mazzei Injector.

I'm curious what the difference is and which system is considered better. Everything I remember reading lead me to believe that the mixing chamber was better but honestly that could just have been what I remember from the Arctic guy.

What's the truth and does anybody have a rough idea of the price difference?

TIA.

[spa_newb]

My Fiancee and I have been looking for a future spa, and we looked specifically at Arctic and Artesian.

The Arctic uses something other than full foam to trap the heat for its insulation, which differs from most of the manufactures.This supposedly has pros and cons.....The real wood cabinets are beautiful but require maintenance....I believe they had a faux wood material as an option but this cost money (faux wood is default on most other spas). We found Arctic to be among the most expensive when adding in the must haves, such as ozonator and for us, premium lighting. The premium lighting wasn't as cool as the Artesian either.

The Artesian blew us away. We currently have our hearts set on the Cypress Point. The fit and finish was phenomenal and the lighting package with light up pillows and waterfall was really cool. It has 3 pumps dedicated to the jets I beleive with independent controls. The only spa we looked at with more than 2 controls. Of course the jets seemed great as well. We have not wet tested anything yet so time will tell. We won't do that until we are ready to actually buy.

Current ranking for us:

1)Artesian Cypress Point

2)LA Spas Concord

3)Sundance Chelsee

4)Limelight Pulse

We also liked the HotSprings but they seemed a little more expensive and the seating wasn't what we wanted in the models we could afford.

[paulmn]

My Fiancee and I have been looking for a future spa, and we looked specifically at Arctic and Artesian.

The Arctic uses something other than full foam to trap the heat for its insulation, which differs from most of the manufactures.This supposedly has pros and cons.....The real wood cabinets are beautiful but require maintenance....I believe they had a faux wood material as an option but this cost money (faux wood is default on most other spas). We found Arctic to be among the most expensive when adding in the must haves, such as ozonator and for us, premium lighting. The premium lighting wasn't as cool as the Artesian either.

The Artesian blew us away. We currently have our hearts set on the Cypress Point. The fit and finish was phenomenal and the lighting package with light up pillows and waterfall was really cool. It has 3 pumps dedicated to the jets I beleive with independent controls. The only spa we looked at with more than 2 controls. Of course the jets seemed great as well. We have not wet tested anything yet so time will tell. We won't do that until we are ready to actually buy.

Current ranking for us:

1)Artesian Cypress Point

2)LA Spas Concord

3)Sundance Chelsee

4)Limelight Pulse

We also liked the HotSprings but they seemed a little more expensive and the seating wasn't what we wanted in the models we could afford.

Good idea staying away from the arctic spa. I own one and have had a lot of trouble. A buddy of mine has one and has had a little trouble also.

[RuBaDuB]

Good idea staying away from the arctic spa. I own one and have had a lot of trouble. A buddy of mine has one and has had a little trouble also.

Wow, you seem to be on a mission to keep anyone from ever buying Arctic again! Sorry to hear you've had so many troubles, but every manufacturer does make 'lemons' once in a while. BMW, Mercedes, etc all crank out the odd dud every so often...doesn't mean their product is crap.

[paulmn]

Good idea staying away from the arctic spa. I own one and have had a lot of trouble. A buddy of mine has one and has had a little trouble also.

Wow, you seem to be on a mission to keep anyone from ever buying Arctic again! Sorry to hear you've had so many troubles, but every manufacturer does make 'lemons' once in a while. BMW, Mercedes, etc all crank out the odd dud every so often...doesn't mean their product is crap.

You are right RuBaDuB. Every manufacturer does make lemons and good analogy with the cars. These hot tubs cost as much as a car. That's why there's a lemon law to protect the consumer. The consumer has recourse when they get a lemon. What's my recourse with this lemon I own? Please give me an example of a time when you spent over $10,000.00 on something and it has had this much trouble? What did you do? Not my mission to keep anyone from buying Arctic, just want to let the world know the truth about my "dud".

Paul

[Water Boy]

Good idea staying away from the arctic spa. I own one and have had a lot of trouble. A buddy of mine has one and has had a little trouble also.

Wow, you seem to be on a mission to keep anyone from ever buying Arctic again! Sorry to hear you've had so many troubles, but every manufacturer does make 'lemons' once in a while. BMW, Mercedes, etc all crank out the odd dud every so often...doesn't mean their product is crap.

You are right RuBaDuB. Every manufacturer does make lemons and good analogy with the cars. These hot tubs cost as much as a car. That's why there's a lemon law to protect the consumer. The consumer has recourse when they get a lemon. What's my recourse with this lemon I own? Please give me an example of a time when you spent over $10,000.00 on something and it has had this much trouble? What did you do? Not my mission to keep anyone from buying Arctic, just want to let the world know the truth about my "dud".

Paul

Paul,

Please check your PM inbox. I want to try and help you out in any way that I can.

[RuBaDuB]

Good idea staying away from the arctic spa. I own one and have had a lot of trouble. A buddy of mine has one and has had a little trouble also.

Wow, you seem to be on a mission to keep anyone from ever buying Arctic again! Sorry to hear you've had so many troubles, but every manufacturer does make 'lemons' once in a while. BMW, Mercedes, etc all crank out the odd dud every so often...doesn't mean their product is crap.

You are right RuBaDuB. Every manufacturer does make lemons and good analogy with the cars. These hot tubs cost as much as a car. That's why there's a lemon law to protect the consumer. The consumer has recourse when they get a lemon. What's my recourse with this lemon I own? Please give me an example of a time when you spent over $10,000.00 on something and it has had this much trouble? What did you do? Not my mission to keep anyone from buying Arctic, just want to let the world know the truth about my "dud".

Paul

My point is your statement "Good idea staying away from the arctic spa." Why? Because you have had some problems? Then what brand would you recommend? Maybe you think he should lean more towards Artesian then? Based on what? I'm sure there are many Artesian owners that have had just as bad or worse problems as you've had with Arctic.

[paulmn]

Good idea staying away from the arctic spa. I own one and have had a lot of trouble. A buddy of mine has one and has had a little trouble also.

Wow, you seem to be on a mission to keep anyone from ever buying Arctic again! Sorry to hear you've had so many troubles, but every manufacturer does make 'lemons' once in a while. BMW, Mercedes, etc all crank out the odd dud every so often...doesn't mean their product is crap.

You are right RuBaDuB. Every manufacturer does make lemons and good analogy with the cars. These hot tubs cost as much as a car. That's why there's a lemon law to protect the consumer. The consumer has recourse when they get a lemon. What's my recourse with this lemon I own? Please give me an example of a time when you spent over $10,000.00 on something and it has had this much trouble? What did you do? Not my mission to keep anyone from buying Arctic, just want to let the world know the truth about my "dud".

Paul

My point is your statement "Good idea staying away from the arctic spa." Why? Because you have had some problems? Then what brand would you recommend? Maybe you think he should lean more towards Artesian then? Based on what? I'm sure there are many Artesian owners that have had just as bad or worse problems as you've had with Arctic.

Just voicing my opinion RuBaDuD. My experience with Arctic is all I can base it on. I can't recommend the Artesian, Ive never owned one. I own an Arctic and I've had several problems with it. Leaks, cover, jets, siding, electrical, just to name a few. Seemed kinda excessive to me. So if someone were considering one or the other, I would tell them to stay away from the one and go with the other. I wish we did hear from some Artesian owners but funny we haven't. I don't wish you any bad luck with your new arctic, and please don't take any of this personal.

[bart6453]

ahh...the age old problem rears it's ugly head again......

If you don't want my opinion....don't ask for it.....if you ask for it and get angry after I tell you......you never wanted my opinion to begin with.

If you want someone to agree with the brand you like....go talk to the salesperson who sells them.

They will totally pat your butt and tell you how great they are. They will make you feel good about the spa you already own....if it is us who is holding you back from loving your spa....get a life and some perspective.

[Water Boy]

ahh...the age old problem rears it's ugly head again......

If you don't want my opinion....don't ask for it.....if you ask for it and get angry after I tell you......you never wanted my opinion to begin with.

If you want someone to agree with the brand you like....go talk to the salesperson who sells them.

They will totally pat your butt and tell you how great they are. They will make you feel good about the spa you already own....if it is us who is holding you back from loving your spa....get a life and some perspective.

Huh?? What did I miss??

[RuBaDuB]

ahh...the age old problem rears it's ugly head again......

If you don't want my opinion....don't ask for it.....if you ask for it and get angry after I tell you......you never wanted my opinion to begin with.

If you want someone to agree with the brand you like....go talk to the salesperson who sells them.

They will totally pat your butt and tell you how great they are. They will make you feel good about the spa you already own....if it is us who is holding you back from loving your spa....get a life and some perspective.

Who's looking for anyone to praise any specific brand? Not me at all. This (for me at least) has nothing to do with Arctic or any other specific brand. I just get a little tired of seeing people have a personal bad experience with a brand, and then tell anyone that will listen to stay away from that brand. It's unfair since all brands have lemons. Now if there is a distinct pattern of problems with a certain brand, then slam away at the brand name all you want.

If everyone were to avoid the brands that people had problems with at some time or another, not many of us would have tubs.

Nothing against Paul at all, just been reading a lot of similar stuff lately from spa/car/bike/electronics/etc owners...I just finally had to say something.

I'm done now

[medicineman]

Really a lemon is only as bad as the dealer selling it. Personally, I have taken back "lemon" spas from customers and replaced them with new.....

I then fix the "lemon" and sell it as a demo.....

So which Arctic Spas dealer did not perform for you???

I wouldn't necessarily chastise the manufacturer as much as the dealer. After all, he is the one who needs the 'good will' to survive.

Getting back to the original question:

I have worked at Arctic Spas and I have recently sat through a sales pitch IN an Artesian. Nice spa, BTW. Not too many spas get my juices flowing, but the Artesian variable speed pump and the ergonomics of the spa impressed me. I still am not "into" the foam-filled thing as I have been maybe brainwashed over the years to think NON-foam filled. I know that if you were fixing a spa during or after the warranty period, you would definitely want to be working on a NON- foam filled.

Good luck......