More Power!

[JKM]

I have a used 2004 Hot Spring Sovereign model I. It's a model that can be converted from a 115v to 230v. I had it hooked up as a 230v per the wiring instructions when it was installed but the motor kept overheating like it wasn't getting enough juice. Here's where it gets interesting. This spa came with a 230v Wavemaster 9000 jet pump. It's a 230v only motor. I noticed when I had the spa hooked up that the motor was not getting enough power. I checked the posts and sure enough, it was only getting 115v. I also checked my jumpers to make sure that they were correct and they are installed correctly for this model but I was still only getting 115v. I called Watkins to see if there was a way to increase the power to 230v to match the needs of the motor. They said that there was not. I ended up replacing the pump with a 115v model but the highest horsepower I can get is 1.5 which seems pretty weak. I am puzzled as to why this spa came with a motor that the controller will not sufficiently power with a 230v connection. I have a hard time believing that the pump was replaced on a spa this new. Has anyone encountered this type of issue before with a HS model? Is there something I haven't tried? I'd love to use a pump with more horespower.

[Dr. Spa]

On spas that are convertible between 115v and 230v, the ONLY thing that the 230v applies to is the heater. EVERYTHING else runs on, and will continue to run on 115v.

[JKM]

On spas that are convertible between 115v and 230v, the ONLY thing that the 230v applies to is the heater. EVERYTHING else runs on, and will continue to run on 115v.

That's why I don't understand why this this spa has a 230v motor. Either they installed the wrong motor at the factory or a replacement motor was mismatched. Watkins confirmed though that there were some 9000s installed at the factory. Is it possible that some 9000s are 115/230 motors?

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

On spas that are convertible between 115v and 230v, the ONLY thing that the 230v applies to is the heater. EVERYTHING else runs on, and will continue to run on 115v.

That's why I don't understand why this this spa has a 230v motor. Either they installed the wrong motor at the factory or a replacement motor was mismatched. Watkins confirmed though that there were some 9000s installed at the factory. Is it possible that some 9000s are 115/230 motors?

OK...somethings going on here. What is the serial number of the tub? You had problems from the get go with the wiring being incorrect, so who knows what may have happened to any of the components while it was initially running with improper wiring while experimenting. Here's the original thread:

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...amp;#entry72126

I have a feeling from the original pictures of the wiring at the other house that this tub may be a sovereignII which would be a 220 volt only model coming with a 220 volt 2.5 HP pump. There are some pretty inventive ways that I have seen these tubs hooked up that will cause various things to work and not work properly. Unless the original owner never had it working properly either, which is a possibility.

What is the serial number of this unit?

[Pool Clown]

Check the service plate on the motor, you may find that it is a dual voltage motor. If you put 110 to a motor switched to 220V you will find that the motor will not run properly, and I don't mean that it will have reduced flow. The motor will spin up then right away begin to wind down then click and wind up then down then click, etc.

Sorry Dan, Didn't see your post... Never mind.

[JKM]

On spas that are convertible between 115v and 230v, the ONLY thing that the 230v applies to is the heater. EVERYTHING else runs on, and will continue to run on 115v.

That's why I don't understand why this this spa has a 230v motor. Either they installed the wrong motor at the factory or a replacement motor was mismatched. Watkins confirmed though that there were some 9000s installed at the factory. Is it possible that some 9000s are 115/230 motors?

OK...somethings going on here. What is the serial number of the tub? You had problems from the get go with the wiring being incorrect, so who knows what may have happened to any of the components while it was initially running with improper wiring while experimenting. Here's the original thread:

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...amp;#entry72126

I have a feeling from the original pictures of the wiring at the other house that this tub may be a sovereignII which would be a 220 volt only model coming with a 220 volt 2.5 HP pump. There are some pretty inventive ways that I have seen these tubs hooked up that will cause various things to work and not work properly. Unless the original owner never had it working properly either, which is a possibility.

What is the serial number of this unit?

Here you go.

http://flickr.com/photos/joelspics/3069154...57610393862901/

It's a model I. The original pump (Wavemaster 9000) has been removed so I can post some photos of that if you like. Again, Watkins told me that I would only be able to get 115v to the pump so that confirms what Dr. Spa is saying.

[Pool Clown]

Saw something in your photos, It's probably nothing, but are you running this spa with some of the filter elements removed? could you have a clogged impeller or other obstruction due to debris? Anyone jump in here. That doesn't prove to be a problem with the kind of pumps I work on, But maybe these spa pumps are more affected by that sort of thing.

[JKM]

Saw something in your photos, It's probably nothing, but are you running this spa with some of the filter elements removed? could you have a clogged impeller or other obstruction due to debris? Anyone jump in here. That doesn't prove to be a problem with the kind of pumps I work on, But maybe these spa pumps are more affected by that sort of thing.

Good question. I have tried running the pumps with and without filters. I couldn't tell a difference. Neither the new pump nor the old one had anything clogging it.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

OK, if it is a Sov I, then it can only get 110 volts to the pump.

However, it doesn't matter how many volts that you have going to the motor, you will not see any more flow whether it is hooked up 110 or 220.

[JKM]

OK, if it is a Sov I, then it can only get 110 volts to the pump.

However, it doesn't matter how many volts that you have going to the motor, you will not see any more flow whether it is hooked up 110 or 220.

Dang it. I can't believe that they would sell a tub with jets this weak.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Dang it. I can't believe that they would sell a tub with jets this weak.

In order for the spa to be able to operate at 110V there is a limit to the Hp size of the motor.

[JKM]

Dang it. I can't believe that they would sell a tub with jets this weak.

In order for the spa to be able to operate at 110V there is a limit to the Hp size of the motor.

Yes I understand that. It's just that I'm surprised that HS would put this product on the market if this is the way it performs. 1.65 HP just doesn't cut it. This tub could easily use a 3HP pump. I'll try to post a video of my tub later.

-Joel

[Dr. Spa]

If they put a 3hp pump in it, it could NOT run of 115v.

It's kind of like asking for a car that will get 50 miles to the gallon, and do 0 to 60 in under 4 seconds.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Dang it. I can't believe that they would sell a tub with jets this weak.

In order for the spa to be able to operate at 110V there is a limit to the Hp size of the motor.

Yes I understand that. It's just that I'm surprised that HS would put this product on the market if this is the way it performs. 1.65 HP just doesn't cut it. This tub could easily use a 3HP pump. I'll try to post a video of my tub later.

-Joel

But if you understand why it has a smaller pump I don’t understand why you say "I can't believe that they would sell a tub with jets this weak"?

The product is on the market because some people need/want a 110V spa, aren't worried about jet power, can't afford a bigger/more powerful spa, etc.

The fact that it's not the right spa for you doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in the market for other people.

Next time you'll know what to look for.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

You mentioned in your first post that you put a 1.5HP pump into it. Did you buy a generic one or did you mean that it was the 1.65hp Watkins pump?

It wouldn't appear to be much of a difference, but if the impellar is significantly smaller in the 1.5 pump it may not push anywhere near the water that the 1.65 pushes.

Anyway It is still an odd situation to begin with in regards to which pump should have been in this tub when you got it.

A Sovereign I is a 110/220 convertible tub with a Wavemaster7000 which is a 110 volt jet pump with 1.65HP.

A Sovereign II is a 220volt only tub that comes with a Wavemaster9000 which is a 220volt only 2.5 HP pump.

The Wavemaster 9000 pump would never had worked properly in the Sovereign I unit unless someone with significant knowledge of how the whole system works installed it after the initial purchase and made the neccesary changes. Watkins may have told you it is impossible, but that is most likely because they didn't fully understand what you were talking about or liability wise they may not have wanted to get involved.

Here's what I think may have happened or something similar:

LKM, based on your thread with the 'before' wiring photos at the original location of the tub, it seems that the owner had this tub hooked up like a 220 only model. He may have been unsatisfied with the Wavemaster7000 pump and replaced it with the Wavemaster9000 pump. To do this he would have had to replace the 20amp single pole breaker with a 20 amp double pole 220 breaker, and run another #12 wire, and change some jumpers around in the control box.

It's just a guess, but something out of the ordinary was done to this tub at some point.

[JKM]

You mentioned in your first post that you put a 1.5HP pump into it. Did you buy a generic one or did you mean that it was the 1.65hp Watkins pump?

It wouldn't appear to be much of a difference, but if the impellar is significantly smaller in the 1.5 pump it may not push anywhere near the water that the 1.65 pushes.

Anyway It is still an odd situation to begin with in regards to which pump should have been in this tub when you got it.

A Sovereign I is a 110/220 convertible tub with a Wavemaster7000 which is a 110 volt jet pump with 1.65HP.

A Sovereign II is a 220volt only tub that comes with a Wavemaster9000 which is a 220volt only 2.5 HP pump.

The Wavemaster 9000 pump would never had worked properly in the Sovereign I unit unless someone with significant knowledge of how the whole system works installed it after the initial purchase and made the neccesary changes. Watkins may have told you it is impossible, but that is most likely because they didn't fully understand what you were talking about or liability wise they may not have wanted to get involved.

Here's what I think may have happened or something similar:

LKM, based on your thread with the 'before' wiring photos at the original location of the tub, it seems that the owner had this tub hooked up like a 220 only model. He may have been unsatisfied with the Wavemaster7000 pump and replaced it with the Wavemaster9000 pump. To do this he would have had to replace the 20amp single pole breaker with a 20 amp double pole 220 breaker, and run another #12 wire, and change some jumpers around in the control box.

It's just a guess, but something out of the ordinary was done to this tub at some point.

Thanks for the note. The pump I bought is an AO Smith 1.5HP 48 frame pump from SpaGuts.com. It's not a 1.65 like the Wavemaster 7000. I was not aware that there was that much difference between the 1.5 and the 1.65. \

If you check the info on backyardplus.com, you'll see that the Sovereign came equipped with both the Wavemaster 7000 and the 9000. According to their web site, my model 'I' came with the 7000 version 3 (1.65HP). When I called Watkins, they said that my model 'I' came with either the 7000 or the 9000.

http://www.backyardplus.com/pumps-wavemast...eplacements.php

It's an interesting idea that perhaps this tub was rigged up in some fashion to get 220v to the motor. But the jumpers were set for a converted 115v to 230v configuration so that doesn't seem likely. I was hoping that somehow it would be possible to wire this up to get 230v to the motor but Watkins says that this is not possible.

Something doesn't add up.

-Joel

[JKM]

Here's one thing that I think might be a solution. I noticed that the IQ2020 control board seems to be that same on all spas that HS makes. If that's true, then the only difference between convertible models and permanent 230v models is the pump itself. If that's the case then I could simply wire this spa up as a permanent 230v and it would work. Does this make sense or does Watkins make multiple versions of the IQ2020 control board?

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

Here's one thing that I think might be a solution. I noticed that the IQ2020 control board seems to be that same on all spas that HS makes. If that's true, then the only difference between convertible models and permanent 230v models is the pump itself. If that's the case then I could simply wire this spa up as a permanent 230v and it would work. Does this make sense or does Watkins make multiple versions of the IQ2020 control board?

LIke I said above it can be done, but the number of wires is different, the 20 amp breaker is different, and the jumper configuration is different.

[hottubdan]

There are so many potential issues here that have not been addressed.

First of all just because an aftermarket web site says a pump was used on a spa does not make it true. No 110 Hot Spring Spas ever used Wavemaster 9000 pumps.

Jet pressure comes from pump size, plumbing, number of jets, oriface sizes, position of diverter valve...Increasing HP may or may not make a difference.

Does your moto jet work? Just curious.

In general, the jet pressure of all Hot Spring EE spas is about the same. Based on your comments, I can't believe we sell so many. Of course, given it is a used spa that seems to have been modified, perhaps yours doesn't function as it should.

[JKM]

There are so many potential issues here that have not been addressed.

First of all just because an aftermarket web site says a pump was used on a spa does not make it true. No 110 Hot Spring Spas ever used Wavemaster 9000 pumps.

Jet pressure comes from pump size, plumbing, number of jets, oriface sizes, position of diverter valve...Increasing HP may or may not make a difference.

Does your moto jet work? Just curious.

In general, the jet pressure of all Hot Spring EE spas is about the same. Based on your comments, I can't believe we sell so many. Of course, given it is a used spa that seems to have been modified, perhaps yours doesn't function as it should.

Thanks for the reply.

No, the Moto does not work. There does not seem to be enough pump pressure. I also noticed one other thing. The diverter valve has 2 settings instead of 4. This along with the Wavemaster 9000 seems to indicate that this is a Sovereign II.

[hottubdan]

There are so many potential issues here that have not been addressed.

First of all just because an aftermarket web site says a pump was used on a spa does not make it true. No 110 Hot Spring Spas ever used Wavemaster 9000 pumps.

Jet pressure comes from pump size, plumbing, number of jets, oriface sizes, position of diverter valve...Increasing HP may or may not make a difference.

Does your moto jet work? Just curious.

In general, the jet pressure of all Hot Spring EE spas is about the same. Based on your comments, I can't believe we sell so many. Of course, given it is a used spa that seems to have been modified, perhaps yours doesn't function as it should.

Thanks for the reply.

No, the Moto does not work. There does not seem to be enough pump pressure. I also noticed one other thing. The diverter valve has 2 settings instead of 4. This along with the Wavemaster 9000 seems to indicate that this is a Sovereign II.

There seem to be clues that it is a Sovereign II. You are correct that the 2 position diverter valve goes with Sovereign II. However, serial number disagrees. I wonder if someone switched tags. What color is your spa? Have you had a pro look at it?

[JKM]

There are so many potential issues here that have not been addressed.

First of all just because an aftermarket web site says a pump was used on a spa does not make it true. No 110 Hot Spring Spas ever used Wavemaster 9000 pumps.

Jet pressure comes from pump size, plumbing, number of jets, oriface sizes, position of diverter valve...Increasing HP may or may not make a difference.

Does your moto jet work? Just curious.

In general, the jet pressure of all Hot Spring EE spas is about the same. Based on your comments, I can't believe we sell so many. Of course, given it is a used spa that seems to have been modified, perhaps yours doesn't function as it should.

Thanks for the reply.

No, the Moto does not work. There does not seem to be enough pump pressure. I also noticed one other thing. The diverter valve has 2 settings instead of 4. This along with the Wavemaster 9000 seems to indicate that this is a Sovereign II.

There seem to be clues that it is a Sovereign II. You are correct that the 2 position diverter valve goes with Sovereign II. However, serial number disagrees. I wonder if someone switched tags. What color is your spa? Have you had a pro look at it?

The serial number is what's really throwing me here. If it weren't for that, I would assume that it's a Sovereign II. It's a blue Erndural tub. I have photos of it here.

http://flickr.com/photos/joelspics/sets/72157610393862901/

[hottubdan]

There are so many potential issues here that have not been addressed.

First of all just because an aftermarket web site says a pump was used on a spa does not make it true. No 110 Hot Spring Spas ever used Wavemaster 9000 pumps.

Jet pressure comes from pump size, plumbing, number of jets, oriface sizes, position of diverter valve...Increasing HP may or may not make a difference.

Does your moto jet work? Just curious.

In general, the jet pressure of all Hot Spring EE spas is about the same. Based on your comments, I can't believe we sell so many. Of course, given it is a used spa that seems to have been modified, perhaps yours doesn't function as it should.

Thanks for the reply.

No, the Moto does not work. There does not seem to be enough pump pressure. I also noticed one other thing. The diverter valve has 2 settings instead of 4. This along with the Wavemaster 9000 seems to indicate that this is a Sovereign II.

There seem to be clues that it is a Sovereign II. You are correct that the 2 position diverter valve goes with Sovereign II. However, serial number disagrees. I wonder if someone switched tags. What color is your spa? Have you had a pro look at it?

The serial number is what's really throwing me here. If it weren't for that, I would assume that it's a Sovereign II. It's a blue Erndural tub. I have photos of it here.

http://flickr.com/photos/joelspics/sets/72157610393862901/

OK, here is my best guess. Watkins had a Sovereign Limited Edition. That spa was not a Sovereign I or II. It WAS a 220V Sovereign. Again, I am guessing here, but it is possible Watkins was not using the II designation. Wavemaster 9000, 2 position diverter valve, blue quarite all point to a 220v spa. It sounds like you need the bigger pump and the correct wiring.

[JKM]

There are so many potential issues here that have not been addressed.

First of all just because an aftermarket web site says a pump was used on a spa does not make it true. No 110 Hot Spring Spas ever used Wavemaster 9000 pumps.

Jet pressure comes from pump size, plumbing, number of jets, oriface sizes, position of diverter valve...Increasing HP may or may not make a difference.

Does your moto jet work? Just curious.

In general, the jet pressure of all Hot Spring EE spas is about the same. Based on your comments, I can't believe we sell so many. Of course, given it is a used spa that seems to have been modified, perhaps yours doesn't function as it should.

Thanks for the reply.

No, the Moto does not work. There does not seem to be enough pump pressure. I also noticed one other thing. The diverter valve has 2 settings instead of 4. This along with the Wavemaster 9000 seems to indicate that this is a Sovereign II.

There seem to be clues that it is a Sovereign II. You are correct that the 2 position diverter valve goes with Sovereign II. However, serial number disagrees. I wonder if someone switched tags. What color is your spa? Have you had a pro look at it?

The serial number is what's really throwing me here. If it weren't for that, I would assume that it's a Sovereign II. It's a blue Erndural tub. I have photos of it here.

http://flickr.com/photos/joelspics/sets/72157610393862901/

OK, here is my best guess. Watkins had a Sovereign Limited Edition. That spa was not a Sovereign I or II. It WAS a 220V Sovereign. Again, I am guessing here, but it is possible Watkins was not using the II designation. Wavemaster 9000, 2 position diverter valve, blue quarite all point to a 220v spa. It sounds like you need the bigger pump and the correct wiring.

I'll have to change the wiring from the GFCI box but that's what I'm planning on trying next. I had thought about the possibility that this is a "ILE" tub but, again, the serial number would be different. Strange. I'm not sure how this one got out the door.

[hottubdan]

Do you have the wiring diagram for the straight 220v Sovereign? The sub panel uses 230v 20 amp and 230v 30 amp breakers. The convertibles use a 120v 20 amp breaker and a 230v 30 amp breaker.