New Costco Model - Anyone Know More About It?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Did a 18 YO Hot Springs 2 weeks ago. Guy said he though it was around 5 grand new. Still ran great with the same pump but 3 circ pumps have been put in and a heater. Problem is the thing is very dated. The owner is thinking about a new one and wonders if HS is a good brand or if he should try another. I gave him a list of 4 that will last that long and none are available at a box store.

LOL, his spa has lasted 18 years with minimal repair over that time and hes wondering if it is a good brand. If he only knew how far above the curve he is; the average spa is lucky to last half of that.

I've talked to many spa owners who have tubs 14, 18, 20+yrs old and typically they know the main reason they still have theirs is because it was a quality unit to start with and when they rebuy they'll typically stick with a quality brand.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Of course, you're a spa dealer, right Dr? I don't suppose there's any bias there.

Nope, not a spa dealer.

Dr Spa is not a spa dealer but is an industry veteren who has always maintained an independent voice. You may not like what he says relative to what you want to believe but you can't sluff it off as biased.

[hot_water]

Of course, you're a spa dealer, right Dr? I don't suppose there's any bias there.

Nope, not a spa dealer.

Dr Spa is not a spa dealer but is an industry veteren who has always maintained an independent voice. You may not like what he says relative to what you want to believe but you can't sluff it off as biased.

Not a dealer? Ok, my mistake. Spatech referred to you as an "Industry veteran", which implies that you are somehow associated with the sap or tub game... care to elaborate, just for my education?

You guys jump on me for having limited experience. Ok, although I fail to see how you can conclude that 30 years of mechanical engineering experience has "infinity" less value than 30 years of fixing tubs. Ok... whatever you want to think. However, you are so busy with this nonsense that you haven't noticed that I never made a single, solitary, lonesome comment about the quality, construction, or value of the specific spa in question. This is because I haven't seen or evaluated one and don't have a damn idea how good or bad it is. Since I've made no claims, I really have no idea what data Roger wants me to provide or why I need thirty years of experience in spas. I've not spoken positively or negatively about the Garden Spa (or whatever the thing is called). All I've done is pointed out that my spa, which in the past has been roundly characterized as total junk, has now run for two years with no muss, no fuss and no trouble. I have shared my sensibilities about prices and value, but always in the context of my own experience and opinions. I've also generally reminded folks that they should do their own due diligence against their own criteria.

On the other hand, in the alternate reality of this forum, some of you seem to believe that having some substantial years of experience in the high tech, esoteric world of hot tubs bestows on you a magical power to be expert on and make pronouncements about things you haven't actually seen. Well, in my reality, that is what we call "BS", or sometimes "talking out of your *ss". As near as I can tell, only a few folks (Sandi, George, Lighthouse) actually have any knowledge at all about the Garden spa. As far as I am concerned, these newbie consumers who've owned one spa (George has or will soon have owned two spas) have more "experience" with this particular spa than the experts who have never so much as seen one.

But then again, what do I know.

[Roger]

but I do want to mention that my abysmal quality Costco value line price point Hydrospa low end cheapie, by some miracle of nature , still seems to work. It's been nearly two years.... so I'm sure the clock is ticking and the end is near. Miraculously, though, the gods must be smiling on me or maybe it's kharma but guess what.... the water is still hot, all the right things still happen when I push the buttons on the cheap OEM spec Balboa controller and nothing has fallen off, bubbled, cracked, leaked, stained, peeled or hurt anyone. But I'll remain ever vigilant because, well, after all, it's not a $10k Hotspring or Sundance. I do notice that it's hard to keep guests out of the thing.... some of the female variety and generally scantily attired or worse. Such a trial.

Sandi, you are doing a great job! As I read through these posts I thought, "well, I should run the math" -- mostly because I actually have run the math and already knew the answer. Which was more or less exactly your answer a bit further down in the thread.... if Costco low end spas weren't such utter garbage, one would have to conclude that one would need to be nuts - or at least extravagant - to spend $10k. But of course they are disasters, yours and mine being just flukes.

Interestingly, there is no way that I am spending anything close to $40 a month extra in electricity. Of course I live in CA so I do have an advantage. I use my spa on average 3 times a week, and set it to sleep mode when I exit. This does save energy - despite the arguments to the contrary - and only means that you have to plan your soaks a few hours in advance... not a problem unless I get home from work a little late, which sadly sometimes happens. Even so, being a cheapskate I plan to modify the insulation a bit. I'm sure it will be a technological stretch to insulate a giant bucket of water, but since I am actually an engineer, hopefully Roger won't object too much ;-).

Think I'll go soak for 15 minutes before bed.... keep your fingers crossed for me!

I don't know I read this a couple more times and I still get condensending smart *ss every time. Is it just me? The comparision is there, once again, like several who have purchased from Costco to a $10,000 tub. The whole post seems insulting to not only me but every veteran here.

[sandi]

I don't know I read this a couple more times and I still get condensending smart *ss every time. Is it just me? The comparision is there, once again, like several who have purchased from Costco to a $10,000 tub. The whole post seems insulting to not only me but every veteran here.

Roger,

I know you were not referring to me in this post but, for the record, I am NOT comparing my $3000 Costco spa to a $10000 spa. We would have preferred to buy a spa from one of the local places to have the peace of mind that comes with dealer support. But with this being our first spa purchase and not knowing how often we would end up even using it, wet testing wasn't our highest priority, nor were dealer support, top of the line components, energy efficiency, shell and cabinet color, or bells and whistles. We wanted a big spa and only had a few thousand dollars that we were willing to spend.

When it turned out that the spa cabinet was poorly insulated, we got some instructions for adding insulation from Ken and did it - no big deal. When we got an airlock, Roger gave me instructions for how to bleed the air from the lines and we did it - no big deal. When we started getting error messages indicating a sensor problem, five-of-a-kind emailed me with photos of what the sensors looked like so I would know what I was looking for, I opened the control pack, discovered that one of the sensors had come loose, plugged it back in, and the problem was fixed - no big deal. The folks on this forum have a wealth of information/knowledge that they are happy to share - for free - and I'm perfectly fine with the fact that we may have to do some things ourselves as a trade off for not paying $10k for a comparable-size high-end spa.

But again, saying that a comparable-size "high end spa" would have cost $10k does NOT mean that I am comparing my Infinity spa to a high end spa. When we went to the 2 local places near our home with the Costco ad, the salespeople at both places warned us about the quality of the spa we were considering (as I expected they would). They used the "apples to oranges" line - I told them I wasn't there to buy apples or oranges, I wanted a spa and asked them what a comparable sized spa would cost at their store. They tried to sell us smaller size spas that would cost us less (but none that were only $3000) - I didn't want smaller. When all of the salesmanship was finished, their bottom line was that we would have to pay about $10k for one of their spas in the size we wanted. We weren't willing to pay that. We spent what we were willing to spend. Whether or not we made a good decision remains to be seen. At 16 months of ownership, we think we made a great choice. At 3 years, will we feel the same? At 5 years? Who knows.

Sandi

[Roger]

Roger,

I know you were not referring to me in this post but, for the record, I am NOT comparing my $3000 Costco spa to a $10000 spa. We would have preferred to buy a spa from one of the local places to have the peace of mind that comes with dealer support. But with this being our first spa purchase and not knowing how often we would end up even using it, wet testing wasn't our highest priority, nor were dealer support, top of the line components, energy efficiency, shell and cabinet color, or bells and whistles. We wanted a big spa and only had a few thousand dollars that we were willing to spend.

When it turned out that the spa cabinet was poorly insulated, we got some instructions for adding insulation from Ken and did it - no big deal. When we got an airlock, Roger gave me instructions for how to bleed the air from the lines and we did it - no big deal. When we started getting error messages indicating a sensor problem, five-of-a-kind emailed me with photos of what the sensors looked like so I would know what I was looking for, I opened the control pack, discovered that one of the sensors had come loose, plugged it back in, and the problem was fixed - no big deal. The folks on this forum have a wealth of information/knowledge that they are happy to share - for free - and I'm perfectly fine with the fact that we may have to do some things ourselves as a trade off for not paying $10k for a comparable-size high-end spa.

But again, saying that a comparable-size "high end spa" would have cost $10k does NOT mean that I am comparing my Infinity spa to a high end spa. When we went to the 2 local places near our home with the Costco ad, the salespeople at both places warned us about the quality of the spa we were considering (as I expected they would). They used the "apples to oranges" line - I told them I wasn't there to buy apples or oranges, I wanted a spa and asked them what a comparable sized spa would cost at their store. They tried to sell us smaller size spas that would cost us less (but none that were only $3000) - I didn't want smaller. When all of the salesmanship was finished, their bottom line was that we would have to pay about $10k for one of their spas in the size we wanted. We weren't willing to pay that. We spent what we were willing to spend. Whether or not we made a good decision remains to be seen. At 16 months of ownership, we think we made a great choice. At 3 years, will we feel the same? At 5 years? Who knows.

Sandi

Sandi you have always been helpfull and well informed at this site. We have talked several times off this site and your expectations are perfect. You bought the right tub for you and I have told you that allready. Even if you have to buy three of them to make it to the 10-15 year mark. You will still be in good shape as I have said before. Your willing and able to deal with your own trouble, which you have done allready, several times. But I also told you that I can get you a comperable sized tub for less than 8 grand that will last 15-20 years. Obviously you don't have the right dealer for you in your area. That's fine.

I just have a problem with derogitory, condensending comments from jerks that think they know it all when in all actuality they know there tub and nothing more. And quite frankly I am suprised that some of the better educated can't see the difference on both the outside and the inside, but it doesn't matter to me, I CAN SEE the difference and have a whole lot of experience in the difference because I am an independent and I see more "value" tubs than dealer tubs. And there's a few reasons for that. One I am an independent and I don't like the way they feed me jobs, like I own them something for the lead. Second there is a certain reluctance around here by the dealers to service value tubs. I'm not sure why on this one but fine. You would think however they would want the work, but I guess not. And lastly 7-9 grand tubs simply don't break down as often in there life span, and when they do start breaking down they are 12-15 years old or more, and the owners want an updated tub.

Servicing tubs is not rocket science or brain surgery, but for a plumber the differences in plumbing and engineering are so obvious that it' hard to imagine someone not seeing or feeling the difference. But alot of people simply don't care after all it's a warm water vessel how hard could it be. There are alot of nuances in pumps and motor loads that relates to how a tub is plumbed that relate to alot of the longevity but most of all it is in componants and the manufacturers that make these componants know how to make GREAT componants GOOD componants MEDIOCRE componants and BOTTOM of the barrel INEXPENSIVE componants for every manufacturer of tubs in the country. The wtaerway catolog alone has thousands of jets, bodies, pumps and componants of several different levals of quality. And somehow I dout (and for those of you who need facts I have none) that the Balboa/Waterway in a 3000 dollar tub are the same as the Balboa Waterway in a 8 thousand dollar tub. It's just not possible in this world to do that. And is another difference I see as I lay on my back or kneel on my old knees servicing tubs..

And we could take that one step further and say the componants that are asked for by the manufacturer that struck a deal on a run of box store tubs are different yet and made specificly for that run of tubs. Or last years sorta 6 HP pumps and motors that didn't sell of the shelf. Again speculation but I have a feeling. That's the way American business works. And I refuse to be blinded by the price tag on anything.

[hot_water]

>> "2 years almost huh I gues you should be considered a veteran now right?"

>> "Does the experience of someone who has seen hundreds of tubs just like yours and hundreds of tubs that were alot more expensive mean anything? Or is your 2 years experience with one tub more valuable?"

>> "...because your a mechnical engineer I now understand alot more. As a plumber/pipe fitter with 30 years experience who has dealt with numerous mechanical engineers. I can now see more clearly why you need the explination as to why."

>> "...and then hired a plumber to put it together for you, but he would probably have to do it different than the plan sorry, the plan won't work."

>> "Most don't pay much attention or are blinded by the price tag."

Roger, the post you quoted was me poking some fun at all of you you forum pundits who have given me and all the other owners of non-dealer spas grief over our selections. In any case, lighten up. I will be happy to acknowledge that I'm an *ss, or worse, if it makes you feel better. I will also happily concede that engineers in general and me in particular are morons and the shop people are responsible for everything good. But I probably will still hope that the plumbers followed the prints when they installed the hydraulic lines in the airliner I'm getting on ;-).

On the other hand, read the snips I posted above. Consider your own comments before you call someone "condescending". And I'm not even starting in on all your nonsense about the spas, which also smack of an elitist attitude and essentially, whether you realize it or not, are strongly condescending and insulting to anyone that buys a non-dealer spa and even moreso to anyone that challenges you to back up your off-hand comments.

Once again, lighten up. We may not fully appreciate each others posting style, but personal attacks over hot tubs is kinda ridiculous, no?

[Roger]

>> "2 years almost huh I gues you should be considered a veteran now right?"

>> "Does the experience of someone who has seen hundreds of tubs just like yours and hundreds of tubs that were alot more expensive mean anything? Or is your 2 years experience with one tub more valuable?"

>> "...because your a mechnical engineer I now understand alot more. As a plumber/pipe fitter with 30 years experience who has dealt with numerous mechanical engineers. I can now see more clearly why you need the explination as to why."

>> "...and then hired a plumber to put it together for you, but he would probably have to do it different than the plan sorry, the plan won't work."

>> "Most don't pay much attention or are blinded by the price tag."

Roger, the post you quoted was me poking some fun at all of you you forum pundits who have given me and all the other owners of non-dealer spas grief over our selections. In any case, lighten up. I will be happy to acknowledge that I'm an *ss, or worse, if it makes you feel better. I will also happily concede that engineers in general and me in particular are morons and the shop people are responsible for everything good. But I probably will still hope that the plumbers followed the prints when they installed the hydraulic lines in the airliner I'm getting on ;-).

On the other hand, read the snips I posted above. Consider your own comments before you call someone "condescending". And I'm not even starting in on all your nonsense about the spas, which also smack of an elitist attitude and essentially, whether you realize it or not, are strongly condescending and insulting to anyone that buys a non-dealer spa and even moreso to anyone that challenges you to back up your off-hand comments.

Once again, lighten up. We may not fully appreciate each others posting style, but personal attacks over hot tubs is kinda ridiculous, no?

My bad for stuping to your level after your post. I apoligize for that.

And I promise to run the lines on the airliner I am building just like you print them......untill I get to the support wall you forgot to write in, then if it's OK with engineering I will go around instead of drilling through!!!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Not a dealer? Ok, my mistake. Spatech referred to you as an "Industry veteran", which implies that you are somehow associated with the sap or tub game... care to elaborate, just for my education?

Until he speaks for himself you can go to his site and get an idea of what I meant when I said "industry veteran". The term "industry" is pretty broad in his case. Technically he does sell hot tubs, but they are the traditional wooden type sold through his on-line site but that is just part of his business which includes covers, chems, etc. and includes a separate spa message forum.

http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/config.pl

http://www.rhtubs.com/index.html

[hot_water]

Spatech,

Thanks, I did visit the good doctor's site (it's right there on his avatar) and that's why I referred to him as a dealer. In my simplistic view, if you are in a business that sells only tubs/spas & related products, then you're a dealer. I do understand the difference between a spa and a traditional wooden hot tub. I guess my sense remains that if you're in "the industry" you are likely to take a very different view of things than someone that is not. Whether intended or unintended, a lot of the responses in this type of thread really don't answer anyone's specific question (i.e., lighthouse asked about a specific spa) but rather seem to be taken as an opportunity to trash non-dealer spas and steer people to the dealer. Now, to the industry insider it might seem like great information but for someone looking to buy something more cost effective, it's not all that helpful.

Some of us have already decided that we don't feel that name brand dealer tubs are a cost effective solution. We don't need to be continually told that we are wrong, blind, or too poor to make a good purchase. We are trying to be diligent and research things to find out specific information to enable us to reach a decision about what is the most cost-effective purchase in our specific circumstance. Just want to know if if someone can provide some actual info. For instance, in this case, on the Garden spa. Instead we're treated to , "it's a cheap thing", "won't last long", "will require you to be a DIYer", "wont' run well", "you get what you pay for", "you could've gotten better for the same money at a dealer", broken record blah blah blah - from folks that haven't actually seen the spa in question.

How about, "nope, haven't seen that one!" or "I fixed three in the past month and all had bad pump motors", or even "the customer was happy as a clam". This is a lot more credible than "You get what you pay for" or similar vague comments. Heard it all before.

So there are probably people that are happy and grateful to to hear the pundits say, "Go to your local dealer and spend as much as you can afford. That is your best option". There are also persons (like me) who don't buy into that and want to know if they can make a little smarter purchase. We don't need a lecture on how we don't have experience, you get what you pay for, and all that. I can afford any of the spas out there, that isn't really the issue to me. The issue is that I always try to get the best value. And, experience or no, I am NOT willing to accept anyone's comments at face value unless they are willing to back them up with some specifics. If I had listened to the pundits I would not have bought my spa, I would have spent TWICE the money on a Sundance. My spa has been good and, despite the nay-saying, I have no reason to think that it won't continue to be okay. Yes, a part might fail tomorrow. I've looked into the cost of parts and I have to tell you... I can buy a pretty big load of parts for the $5000 price difference between my spa and that Sundance. I can also pay for a whole lot of service calls. On top of that, I can return mine at any time, which I could not do with Sundance. From where I stand, it was very clearly a good decision... and so it comes off as a bit self-serving and I dare say arrogant to be repeatedly told by the same "experts" that it wasn't a good selection because I don't have experience and all that other nonsense.

Having vented, I should also say that I do appreciate that you in particular tend to temper your comments and at least you aren't insulting and you don't talk down to people. An "expert" should, again in my simplistic view, provide expert level advice... which is different than "I never saw that one but you get what you pay for". Tom gave some guidelines and even though I surmise he is associated with a manufacturer, that was good info for the reader. Doctor's technical comments are most often right on the money, which is also good. Roger is, well... Roger.... but he spends a lot of time helping people and as such that's a very very good thing.

Have a nice weekend.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Some of us have already decided that we don't feel that name brand dealer tubs are a cost effective solution. We don't need to be continually told that we are wrong, blind, or too poor to make a good purchase. We are trying to be diligent and research things to find out specific information to enable us to reach a decision about what is the most cost-effective purchase in our specific circumstance.

If you think that name brand spas are not cost effective that is your thought but MANY other people have thanked me for information/opinions/experience I've given on these type spas and many other topics. I'm not going to keep quiet on a subject I think I'm informed about but at the same time I try to always make it know that its simply my opinion. I'm also not going to wish someone bad luck because they purchased a product I'm not a fan of. I’ll be happy to help them after the fact when issues arise and a few have stated they wished they’d talked to me earlier.

MANY people have PM'd me asking for information on purchases and I'm sure I've swayed a few so for every person who wishes I'd shut up about these topics I believe there are far more that have thanked myself, Roger, Dr Spa and others for a our views, regardless of what decision they end up making. I don't expect anyone to goosestep along with whatever I say as everyone should take the posts they read and make their own informed decision.

[hot_water]

>> "If you think that name brand spas are not cost effective that is your thought ..."

Yes, that is my carefully considered opinion, but I am not alone. Lots of people have come to the same conclusion, or are in the process of evaluating all the options and reaching their own conclusions. I've also stated numerous times that my choice may not be the right solution for everyone.

>> "...but MANY other people have thanked me for information/opinions/experience I've given on these type spas and many other topics."

Yes, you deserve thanks for the many times you've provided help -- as do many of your pals on the forum.

>>"I'm not going to keep quiet on a subject I think I'm informed about..."

Who's suggesting you keep quiet? Not me! It's a forum, the whole point is to state your opinion, share your perspectives, info, etc.

>>"...but at the same time I try to always make it know that its simply my opinion."

Well, not always. When several of you all chime in to shout down someone else's opinion or perspectives because they don't have your years of experience, then what you're effectively saying is, "I've given you my opinion. Yours is comparatively less valuable because you're not one of us". Of course you're free to say that... but other people do have valuable and applicable experience, it may just not be from within the industry. For example, Ken is not in the industry but he certainly has and has shared very valuable experience in improving his insulation. The pundits don't have to agree with anyone's comments, but downplaying other's opinons is, in my view, both rude and arrogant. Of course, again, you're free to do that if you like. I'm free to comment on it.

>>"MANY people have PM'd me asking for information on purchases and I'm sure I've swayed a few so for every person who wishes I'd shut up about these topics I believe there are far more that have thanked myself, Roger, Dr Spa and others.."

Well of course, if your opinions make sense to someone or they learn something, they should thank you. People come here, I think, to learn things or be exposed to different options, perpectives, and all that. It's clear to me that one of the goals of the "industry veteran" group is, as you say, to "sway" people away from the non-dealer option, and that's up to you. For me, I'm not in the industry and think that think the better goal is to present, in an unbiased way, the real pros and cons associated with all options. I think that the heavily biased statements, near total failure to point out the many up sides and benefits (including economic benefits and warranty advantages) of the non-dealer option, and dismissive comments toward anyone that challenges the expert group's views don't do this. So, while I'm sure that many people agree with you and have decided to follow your suggestions, I feel fairly certain that there are lots of people you never hear from that have determined that the forum isn't very helpful in terms of helping them make their buying decision. By the way, you will NEVER see me recommend any spa, or recommend any retailer or dealer. What you see from me is the suggestion that people reject unjustified bashing of this or that and make their own judgements.

If someone buys a name spa on your or other the "expert" recommendations and they're happy, then they may and should feel that you've helped them. Wonderful! If I had done that, I would likely feel the same. However, as I see things today, I didn't do that based on what I consider to be sound evaluation of the pros and cons, and I'm still happy as a clam. So the net is that yes, while I would have been satisfied and enjoyed my name-brand spa, I would have spent at twice what I needed to to satisfy my personal set of requirements. From that perspective, the experts' advice on selection just doesn't ring completely true (from my personal experience). Is it reasonable to discount that because I don't work in the spa industry? Many of you industry veterans apparently think so. You are free to do so. I am free to disagree.

>> "I don't expect anyone to goosestep along with whatever I say as everyone should take the posts they read and make their own informed decision."

With due respect, the walk doesn't match the talk. I think you're personally not the worst offender, but you all do this, whether you see it or not. When a bunch of you gang up to diss an alternate view, you are doing exactly that - trying to establish your views as the only legitimate perspective. As I see it, the whole "experience" angle is a great example of this. You industry guys certainly do have great insight and lots of information that consumers don't have. But the suggestion that anyone outside the industry is somehow less qualified to evaluate pros and cons in light of our their own sensibilities, experience as consumers, willingness to go without dealer support, etc. is insulting, demeaning and, most importantly, just plain wrong. Some folks many be perfectly satisfied just to hear your opinion, but other would prefer to evaluate their candidate decisions based on other than "I have experience and I say you get what you pay for". Again, you personally don't say this, but we both know it has been the message repeatedly.

I'm not suggesting you do anything. It's a free country. I'm just making a point.

That's it, I'm done.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

>> "...but MANY other people have thanked me for information/opinions/experience I've given on these type spas and many other topics."

Yes, you deserve thanks for the many times you've provided help -- as do many of your pals on the forum.

Thanks, I'll let all my pals know!!

>> "I don't expect anyone to goosestep along with whatever I say as everyone should take the posts they read and make their own informed decision."

I think you're personally not the worst offender

Whew, for a second there I thought I was tops on the list!! We all know Roger is worse than me anyway!!

[Roger]

Whew, for a second there I thought I was tops on the list!! We all know Roger is worse than me anyway!!

And damn proud of it, cause i don't like engine ears!!! Dey auways make me build sumthin that don't work, so I build it right den they redraw it and take da cwedit!!

[flibotte]

I have enjoyed reading the big box vs evil spa companies posts on this board for years. Lots of laughs over the years. At different times over the years I have argued on both sides of the coin at various times depending on the argument. I actually bought a spa from sams club (keys backyard) over 3 years ago and it is still going strong without any issues. I already got my $2,800 worth in my opinion. Having said that I wouldn't buy any tub from one of these places right now after watching the last 3 big companies that were selling to the box stores keys, hydro, and infinity go under. And now I see that Gulf Coast (or what ever they are calling themselves today). I would stay away from them. It's probably a bad sign when a comapny keeps changing it's name. But thats just me.

[soakerguy]

I also own a sub 4k " box store" spa and am at the three year mark with nay a problem whatsoever. I am not saying I am normall but for me the odds played out in my favor and I anticipate more years ahead of trouble free soaking!

[Doctor Hot Tub]

WOW! I have been working on repairing hot tubs now for a little over 13 years. I have in the past had a store and sold Sundance, Great Lakes and Masterspa. We moved two years ago to the coast to open a new store and didn't when I saw the economy starting to slide. We will open a 18k foot store in 2009. Over the last 2 years I have worked on average 5-9 hot tubs a day 6 days a week. I have two other employees doing the same. We have worked on:

Hot Tub Manufacture/Warranty repair/Non-Warranty repair/total
Sundance (5 year warranty 21 61 82 Strong local dealer/most tubs repair avg. 10 years age
Hotsprings(5 year warranty) 03 35 38 Strong local dealer/most tubs repair avg. 10 years age
Masterspa(5 year warranty) 0 7 7 No local Dealer
Catalinia(7 year warranty) 371 471 842 local dealership sold a few times (most warranty spas-3 years old)
Caldera(5 year warranty) 1 8 9 local dealer
Vita(5 year warranty) 9 37 46 local dealer
D1(5 year warranty) 0 59 59 Strong local dealer/most tubs repair avg. 10 years age
Great Lakes(3 year warranty) 1 16 17 No local Dealer
Infinity(1 year warranty) 37 41 78 No local Dealer
Keys Backyard(1 year warranty) 21 217 238 No local Dealer
Nordic(3 year warranty) 0 61 61 No local Dealer
Emerald(5 year warranty) 0 9 9 No local Dealer
Jaccuzzi (Old) 0 411 411 No local Dealer
Jaccuzzi (new)(5 year warranty) 2 0 2 New to area
unknown manfacture 0 16 16 No local Dealer
Four Winds 1 71 72 local dealer
Dynasty(3 year warranty) 0 5 5 No local Dealer
Hydro Spa 0 187 187 No local Dealer
Garden Leisure 2 233 235 No local Dealer
"internet tubs "(1 year warranty) 16 393 409 No local Dealer
Cal Spas(5 year warranty) 7 21 28 No local Dealer(complete nightmare)
Leisure Bay 0 77 77 local dealer(bigger nightmare)
Artesian Spas(5 year warranty) 1 11 12 local dealer
Strong 5 99 104 local dealer
Coleman(3 year warranty) 0 7 7 local dealer
Maxx(5 year warranty) 2 3 5 local dealer
497 2559 3056

What everyone that keeps buying these cheap big box store tubs needs to realize that most are delivered with problems and you better hope that it's one of the manufactures that actually pays us to repair your tub and not one of 5 on this list no repair company wants to deal with since you never get paid. We are owed as of 12/16/08 over 17k from these bix box hot tub companies that are now for the most part not owned anymore by the first company. (one of these companies will keep nameless has on average 5 problems on each spa I have worked on, and these are NEW tubs!!!!)

Notice that of the basic companies (Infinity, Keys, Garden, Hydospa, Old Jaccuzzi, Strong and other various cheap internet tubs) that have for the most part 1 year warranties that they make up 1581 repair jobs during this two year period. Those statistics alone should tell you what your odds are of getting to know your local repair person (IF YOU CAN FIND ONE!) and having them on speed dial. IN two years time I have not ever visited a big box tub that was even half as well built as one of the majors.

The Catalinia dealer numbers are terrible for one big reason and that is that for the most part the salesperson's said that they didn't need to add any chemicals as long as they had an ozonator. So these tubs were always in acid bath conditions.

I use a Range Rover and Discovery as my service vehicals thanks to those cheap tubs. I can only hope that cheap tubs keep getting made. One of these days soon I will buy a new 911 Porsche and the tag will read "cheptubs". I would like to add to "hot water" perhaps you might look at the repair business since in the right market it can be a "print your own cash gold mine".

[koda]

Some of us have already decided that we don't feel that name brand dealer tubs are a cost effective solution. We don't need to be continually told that we are wrong, blind, or too poor to make a good purchase. We are trying to be diligent and research things to find out specific information to enable us to reach a decision about what is the most cost-effective purchase in our specific circumstance.

If you think that name brand spas are not cost effective that is your thought but MANY other people have thanked me for information/opinions/experience I've given on these type spas and many other topics. I'm not going to keep quiet on a subject I think I'm informed about but at the same time I try to always make it know that its simply my opinion. I'm also not going to wish someone bad luck because they purchased a product I'm not a fan of. I’ll be happy to help them after the fact when issues arise and a few have stated they wished they’d talked to me earlier.

MANY people have PM'd me asking for information on purchases and I'm sure I've swayed a few so for every person who wishes I'd shut up about these topics I believe there are far more that have thanked myself, Roger, Dr Spa and others for a our views, regardless of what decision they end up making. I don't expect anyone to goosestep along with whatever I say as everyone should take the posts they read and make their own informed decision.