Building New Pool

[poolvirgin]

I am planning on building a brand new in ground gunite pool. the dimensions will be approx. 50' X 12' depth shallow end will varry from a "beach entrance" to 4' and deep end will be 10' to 12' deep. (I want to practice scuba diving in pool)

at the same time I am would like a lot of features to be added to the pool, waterfall(s), laminar jets, underwater speaker, LED lighting, a controller that can be hookes up with my Crestron home automation system (so far I know the Jandy "Aqua Link" can be used) and another thing it will be a salt water pool, so I will need to know which salt generator to use.

Up to know I have done quite a bit of research and I am trying to find the best place to receive advice on what equipment to purchase. For example with all the features I want to have in the pool I know I will need a few pumps but I cannot find a place to inform me on which pump is the best for each application. When looking at the specs on the Jandy web site and Hayward I am still not sure which pumps to use.

As for heating I have a geothermal system in my house and I will be using a heat exchanger to "pre Heat" the pool for "FREE" heating and for the remaining heating needs I will use a gas fired furnace that in the winter will be doing a snow melt system in driveway and in the summer sits idle. This system also will be equiped with a heat exchanger. The reason I want to go this route is that I do not want any equipment noise outside to disturb my family and myself while we will be enjoying the pool.

As for the filter I spoke with 20 different people and I got 20 different stories!!! After comparing SAND, DE and CARTRIDGE and listening to the advice I am now leaning towards CARTRIDGE. However I have no idea which manufacturer to use and if that is the correct choice.

I have so many other questions but if someone would be so kind as to help me out with these questions to start I will be forever greatful.

Thanks in advance,

poolvirign (hoping to become poolpro!!!)

[ofan999]

I am planning on building a brand new in ground gunite pool. the dimensions will be approx. 50' X 12' depth shallow end will varry from a "beach entrance" to 4' and deep end will be 10' to 12' deep. (I want to practice scuba diving in pool)

at the same time I am would like a lot of features to be added to the pool, waterfall(s), laminar jets, underwater speaker, LED lighting, a controller that can be hookes up with my Crestron home automation system (so far I know the Jandy "Aqua Link" can be used) and another thing it will be a salt water pool, so I will need to know which salt generator to use.

Up to know I have done quite a bit of research and I am trying to find the best place to receive advice on what equipment to purchase. For example with all the features I want to have in the pool I know I will need a few pumps but I cannot find a place to inform me on which pump is the best for each application. When looking at the specs on the Jandy web site and Hayward I am still not sure which pumps to use.

As for heating I have a geothermal system in my house and I will be using a heat exchanger to "pre Heat" the pool for "FREE" heating and for the remaining heating needs I will use a gas fired furnace that in the winter will be doing a snow melt system in driveway and in the summer sits idle. This system also will be equiped with a heat exchanger. The reason I want to go this route is that I do not want any equipment noise outside to disturb my family and myself while we will be enjoying the pool.

As for the filter I spoke with 20 different people and I got 20 different stories!!! After comparing SAND, DE and CARTRIDGE and listening to the advice I am now leaning towards CARTRIDGE. However I have no idea which manufacturer to use and if that is the correct choice.

I have so many other questions but if someone would be so kind as to help me out with these questions to start I will be forever greatful.

Thanks in advance,

poolvirign (hoping to become poolpro!!!)

I have had all 3 type filters. I started with a sand but in 2000 I replaced the liner, filter & cover. I was talked into a cartridge filter. I kept it for 1 yr. but it is time consuming to take it apart to clean it. If you have any algae build up it clogs the cartidge & you have to take the filter apart to get to it and hose it off.. I replaced it with a DE filter. The DE does trap the smallest particles however my problem with the DE is I use a mesh winter cover and I would get a lot of dust from the fields around me into the pool over the winter. Upon spring start up there is no way to vacuum to waste so I would have to "bump it" every day and replace the DE about twice until everything was clear. Last year I went back to sand. For me it seems like the best alternative for my situation. I can filter to waste and if the pressure goes up all you need to do is backwash it. Once everything was clear I only needed to backwash about once a month or so. By the way I use about 1 cup of DE in the sand filter and have not had any problems with maintaining a clear pool.

[poolvirgin]

I am planning on building a brand new in ground gunite pool. the dimensions will be approx. 50' X 12' depth shallow end will varry from a "beach entrance" to 4' and deep end will be 10' to 12' deep. (I want to practice scuba diving in pool)

at the same time I am would like a lot of features to be added to the pool, waterfall(s), laminar jets, underwater speaker, LED lighting, a controller that can be hookes up with my Crestron home automation system (so far I know the Jandy "Aqua Link" can be used) and another thing it will be a salt water pool, so I will need to know which salt generator to use.

Up to know I have done quite a bit of research and I am trying to find the best place to receive advice on what equipment to purchase. For example with all the features I want to have in the pool I know I will need a few pumps but I cannot find a place to inform me on which pump is the best for each application. When looking at the specs on the Jandy web site and Hayward I am still not sure which pumps to use.

As for heating I have a geothermal system in my house and I will be using a heat exchanger to "pre Heat" the pool for "FREE" heating and for the remaining heating needs I will use a gas fired furnace that in the winter will be doing a snow melt system in driveway and in the summer sits idle. This system also will be equiped with a heat exchanger. The reason I want to go this route is that I do not want any equipment noise outside to disturb my family and myself while we will be enjoying the pool.

As for the filter I spoke with 20 different people and I got 20 different stories!!! After comparing SAND, DE and CARTRIDGE and listening to the advice I am now leaning towards CARTRIDGE. However I have no idea which manufacturer to use and if that is the correct choice.

I have so many other questions but if someone would be so kind as to help me out with these questions to start I will be forever greatful.

Thanks in advance,

poolvirign (hoping to become poolpro!!!)

I have had all 3 type filters. I started with a sand but in 2000 I replaced the liner, filter & cover. I was talked into a cartridge filter. I kept it for 1 yr. but it is time consuming to take it apart to clean it. If you have any algae build up it clogs the cartidge & you have to take the filter apart to get to it and hose it off.. I replaced it with a DE filter. The DE does trap the smallest particles however my problem with the DE is I use a mesh winter cover and I would get a lot of dust from the fields around me into the pool over the winter. Upon spring start up there is no way to vacuum to waste so I would have to "bump it" every day and replace the DE about twice until everything was clear. Last year I went back to sand. For me it seems like the best alternative for my situation. I can filter to waste and if the pressure goes up all you need to do is backwash it. Once everything was clear I only needed to backwash about once a month or so. By the way I use about 1 cup of DE in the sand filter and have not had any problems with maintaining a clear pool.

WOW i see you really had experience with all three. I like the idea of adding a cup of DE in your sand filter.

If the effort and time was not a concern which filter would you go with? did you notice a difference in water quality or clarity of the water with each of the different filters?

thanks for taking the time to respond.

[ofan999]

The DE does trap some smaller particles, however I could not tell the difference between DE or sand. For me the ease of the sand filter was the deciding point. With the DE & cartridge filters you have to take them apart to clean them. With the sand you just backwash it. I am in the process of replacing my existing pool (35 year old wood wall vinyl liner) and can't decide between staying with vinyl or going with fiberglass. Whichever pool I go with I'll stay with a sand filter.

[Nick L]

I would definitely recommend the Jandy controls for the home automation system, Jandy's controls are far superior than what hayward has to offer.

As for the pumps, I would recommend either the Jandy Stealth Pump or the Hayward Tristar pump. These pumps are both the top of the line pumps for their respective companies. It is worth the extra money to get a dependable pump.

Filters: If you want to have water features like laminar jets, you need to use a cartridge filter or de filter. Either one is fine.

I would recommend you use one manufacturer for all your equipment if you get 3 major components from one manufacturer, this means a pump, filter, heater, controls, or salt generator, they will give you an extended 3 year warranty.

I build gunite pools and am a service center for Jandy and Hayward in Chicago.

Hope this helps.

[4serendipity]

Great questions:

Most pool pumps have similar performance ratings as other pumps in their price range. The exception is Hayward which perform slightly less than their rating. A 1.5HP hayward pump would have similar flow rates as many other model 1 HP pumps. Since you have specifically referenced the importance of outdoor noise you should spend as much as possible getting quiet pumps - my personal recommendation being the Pentair Whisperflo series.

You are overthinking the filter choice for your pool. Save the money you were going to spend on a cartridge filter and put that extra cash into your pump selection. For a filter I would recommed residential two sand filters or one large commercial side ort sand filter - 100,000,000 pool owners can't be wrong=)

If you want to go with automation in your mechanical room I would say to stick with jandy for all of your pumps, filters and heaters. Be sure to note that if you are going to add a chlorine generator you will want to upgrade your heat exchanger to titanium ($$$)

You also should consider an in floor cleaning system to reduce the amount of maintenance your pool will need - especially since it is so deep. It is a big upgrade but people who have them - love them.

I hope this information is helpful.

S

[jeff grotte]

I am planning on building a brand new in ground gunite pool. the dimensions will be approx. 50' X 12' depth shallow end will varry from a "beach entrance" to 4' and deep end will be 10' to 12' deep. (I want to practice scuba diving in pool)

at the same time I am would like a lot of features to be added to the pool, waterfall(s), laminar jets, underwater speaker, LED lighting, a controller that can be hookes up with my Crestron home automation system (so far I know the Jandy "Aqua Link" can be used) and another thing it will be a salt water pool, so I will need to know which salt generator to use.

Up to know I have done quite a bit of research and I am trying to find the best place to receive advice on what equipment to purchase. For example with all the features I want to have in the pool I know I will need a few pumps but I cannot find a place to inform me on which pump is the best for each application. When looking at the specs on the Jandy web site and Hayward I am still not sure which pumps to use.

As for heating I have a geothermal system in my house and I will be using a heat exchanger to "pre Heat" the pool for "FREE" heating and for the remaining heating needs I will use a gas fired furnace that in the winter will be doing a snow melt system in driveway and in the summer sits idle. This system also will be equiped with a heat exchanger. The reason I want to go this route is that I do not want any equipment noise outside to disturb my family and myself while we will be enjoying the pool.

As for the filter I spoke with 20 different people and I got 20 different stories!!! After comparing SAND, DE and CARTRIDGE and listening to the advice I am now leaning towards CARTRIDGE. However I have no idea which manufacturer to use and if that is the correct choice.

I have so many other questions but if someone would be so kind as to help me out with these questions to start I will be forever greatful.

Thanks in advance,

poolvirign (hoping to become poolpro!!!)

I have had all 3 type filters. I started with a sand but in 2000 I replaced the liner, filter & cover. I was talked into a cartridge filter. I kept it for 1 yr. but it is time consuming to take it apart to clean it. If you have any algae build up it clogs the cartidge & you have to take the filter apart to get to it and hose it off.. I replaced it with a DE filter. The DE does trap the smallest particles however my problem with the DE is I use a mesh winter cover and I would get a lot of dust from the fields around me into the pool over the winter. Upon spring start up there is no way to vacuum to waste so I would have to "bump it" every day and replace the DE about twice until everything was clear. Last year I went back to sand. For me it seems like the best alternative for my situation. I can filter to waste and if the pressure goes up all you need to do is backwash it. Once everything was clear I only needed to backwash about once a month or so. By the way I use about 1 cup of DE in the sand filter and have not had any problems with maintaining a clear pool.

WOW i see you really had experience with all three. I like the idea of adding a cup of DE in your sand filter.

If the effort and time was not a concern which filter would you go with? did you notice a difference in water quality or clarity of the water with each of the different filters?

thanks for taking the time to respond.

for your filter use a large top mount sand filter with crushed glass in it a pentair TA100d has a two inch backwash valve. the crushed class will filter as fine as de and be as easy as a sand filter to backwash.

the glass will not absorbe anything and backwashes clean I have used it for 3 years on many pools

for pumps i would use the http://www.pentairpool.com/products/products3.php?id=77 pump it is fully adjustable flow and cost very little to operate take avery close look at it the pump that i have sold can pay for them selfs in a couple of years.

for sanaitizing the water look at www.ecosmarte.com the water will taste like bottled water

[Strannik]

EcoSmarte is not a proper sanitation system, so id steer clear of it

in fact i'd steer clear of anything which mentions that you don't require chlorine at all

[jeff grotte]

EcoSmarte is not a proper sanitation system, so id steer clear of it

in fact i'd steer clear of anything which mentions that you don't require chlorine at all

It Must be nice to live in this world with your head in the sand. the ECOsmarte system has been around since 1994 and the technology was designed by nasa for the space program.

I have used it personally on all pools I have built for the last 9 years. and installed on many other pools that I did not build.

I would say over 60% of my customers are either doctors or lawyers all of which understand the dangers of high salt and what chlorine will do to your body.

You should try to learn more of what you tell people not to buy, the way I found out was to install several my first year.

all you have shown pool and spa owners is your ignorance on the sanitation subject.

[pooltech9]

Poolvirgin, I too am getting a pool in a few weeks. I've done extensive research as well. I'll have laminars and waterfalls as well. I'm going with a Hayward Variable Speed TriStar pump, a Goldline ProLogic PS-8 automation system (which interfaces with the Crestron HA with the E-Connect product by Goldline), a DE filter(filters down to 2 microns, sand=10 microns). I will have a Hayward Universal 400K heater(for the spillover spa), a Hayward Heat Pump, and Solar panels as well.

The Goldline(by Hayward) system has a feature called "solar priority" which when 6 degrees difference between the solar panels and the pool water is sensed, it automatically shuts the heater down and turns a valve actuator to divert the water to the solar heater, saving money.

The Goldline also interfaces with Hayward's ColorLogic LED lights, and allows me to create my own colors, shows, speeds, etc..

The variable speed pump will run at 50% for filtration, saving 75% on electricity, while having full speed for backwashing, vacuuming, and Spa mode. Interfaced with the Goldline unit I can program all of my water features (8 speeds)to whatever flow rates I wish, and designate a button as a "group" function so it all happens at the touch of a button. I also will have "Sense & Dispense" a Goldline product that automatically senses pH and ORP, and adjusts them automatically (injecting CO2 to lower the pH).

My automatic cleaner will be a robotic, AquaVac Tiger Shark, which only draws 1 amp, saving more money than a pressure cleaner running on a booster pump.

More importantly though, I'm using 2 1/2 " plumbing on everything, with sweep fittings instead of 90 elbows. The hydraulic efficiency I will acheive by doing this will pay for the cost of upsizing the plumbing in a short time, and will continue to save me $$$ for years to come.

The choices are yours, I'm a lazy boy, my pool will take care of itself once I set it up. I've made up my mind to go with Hayward all the way. I will watch the country's economy crumble around me, from a raft, coctail in hand, saving money all the while!

[jeff grotte]

Poolvirgin, I too am getting a pool in a few weeks. I've done extensive research as well. I'll have laminars and waterfalls as well. I'm going with a Hayward Variable Speed TriStar pump, a Goldline ProLogic PS-8 automation system (which interfaces with the Crestron HA with the E-Connect product by Goldline), a DE filter(filters down to 2 microns, sand=10 microns). I will have a Hayward Universal 400K heater(for the spillover spa), a Hayward Heat Pump, and Solar panels as well.

The Goldline(by Hayward) system has a feature called "solar priority" which when 6 degrees difference between the solar panels and the pool water is sensed, it automatically shuts the heater down and turns a valve actuator to divert the water to the solar heater, saving money.

The Goldline also interfaces with Hayward's ColorLogic LED lights, and allows me to create my own colors, shows, speeds, etc..

The variable speed pump will run at 50% for filtration, saving 75% on electricity, while having full speed for backwashing, vacuuming, and Spa mode. Interfaced with the Goldline unit I can program all of my water features (8 speeds)to whatever flow rates I wish, and designate a button as a "group" function so it all happens at the touch of a button. I also will have "Sense & Dispense" a Goldline product that automatically senses pH and ORP, and adjusts them automatically (injecting CO2 to lower the pH).

My automatic cleaner will be a robotic, AquaVac Tiger Shark, which only draws 1 amp, saving more money than a pressure cleaner running on a booster pump.

More importantly though, I'm using 2 1/2 " plumbing on everything, with sweep fittings instead of 90 elbows. The hydraulic efficiency I will acheive by doing this will pay for the cost of upsizing the plumbing in a short time, and will continue to save me $$$ for years to come.

The choices are yours, I'm a lazy boy, my pool will take care of itself once I set it up. I've made up my mind to go with Hayward all the way. I will watch the country's economy crumble around me, from a raft, coctail in hand, saving money all the while!

for all those that think that the salt chlorine generator is the way to go you should know that the combination of salt and chlorine is very corrosive to swimming pools. the salt will destroy natural stone and cause re bar to rust which then expands and cracks the concrete, in Minnesota the Highway department has had to use the much higher priced coated re bar to avoid the rusting.

the salt will also corrode any metal around the pool. pools that are built around see water will be told to wash the pool area with fresh water often to keep the salt from hurting the pool and decking. having the salt in the pool water will have the same effect.

with the automated sensores make sure that they are checked once a week with a manual test kit. the sensors need to be cleaned and calabrated and replaced about once a year. Co2 is good to use to lower ph as it only goes down to about 6.7. if you use a automated muratic acid feed, double check more frequently as the acid will go way to low if the sensor it out of calabration.

On swimming pools the best way to check water clarity is to turn you pool light on at night and look for the suspended particles.

DE will go down to 2 Microns. the reason i recommend the large to mount and filters with crushed glass is that the DE filter has a much higher maintains level. where the glass in a sand filter will filter as fine as DE. and you do not need to add new powder to the grids or replace torn grids like a DE filter.

The up sized plumbing is a great investment!

Have funn this summer.

[pooltech9]

Thanx Jeff,

My understanding is that sea water is about 30,000 ppm salt, where a saltwater pool for chlorine generation is about 3200 ppm. While I have seen the corrosiveness attack an aluminum ladder socket and weld it to the ladder, I don't think it's all that bad if measures are taken to accomodate the salt. I'll have brass deck sockets, I'll be sealing my paver deck, and the fiberglass shell should be ok. Besides, the swimming experience is awesome!!

[jeff grotte]

Thanx Jeff,

My understanding is that sea water is about 30,000 ppm salt, where a saltwater pool for chlorine generation is about 3200 ppm. While I have seen the corrosiveness attack an aluminum ladder socket and weld it to the ladder, I don't think it's all that bad if measures are taken to accomodate the salt. I'll have brass deck sockets, I'll be sealing my paver deck, and the fiberglass shell should be ok. Besides, the swimming experience is awesome!!

I think bottled water would be more enjoyable. if you gave people a choice they will always pick ECOsmarte water over salt water. our water you can climb out of the pool and have no need to shower. and the water tastes good' you also do not need a fresh swim suit to ware to friends houses. we will not fade a swim suit.

I should also mention that our system we test PH Calcium and Copper

A salt water pool will need to be treated like a chlorine pool. and in the cold months when the heat is off the salt pools will get merky where ours do not.

Good luck with your pool

Jeff

[ps558]

Thanx Jeff,

My understanding is that sea water is about 30,000 ppm salt, where a saltwater pool for chlorine generation is about 3200 ppm. While I have seen the corrosiveness attack an aluminum ladder socket and weld it to the ladder, I don't think it's all that bad if measures are taken to accomodate the salt. I'll have brass deck sockets, I'll be sealing my paver deck, and the fiberglass shell should be ok. Besides, the swimming experience is awesome!!

I think bottled water would be more enjoyable. if you gave people a choice they will always pick ECOsmarte water over salt water. our water you can climb out of the pool and have no need to shower. and the water tastes good' you also do not need a fresh swim suit to ware to friends houses. we will not fade a swim suit.

I should also mention that our system we test PH Calcium and Copper

A salt water pool will need to be treated like a chlorine pool. and in the cold months when the heat is off the salt pools will get merky where ours do not.

Good luck with your pool

Jeff

With that eco smart thing it uses copper to sanitize and it you screw up your chemistry the copper will come out of solution and stain everything.

Also in cold pool water nothing can grow so it will not get murky. The murky comes from leaving the pool covered to long in spring or closing to early in fall

[jeff grotte]

Thanx Jeff,

My understanding is that sea water is about 30,000 ppm salt, where a saltwater pool for chlorine generation is about 3200 ppm. While I have seen the corrosiveness attack an aluminum ladder socket and weld it to the ladder, I don't think it's all that bad if measures are taken to accomodate the salt. I'll have brass deck sockets, I'll be sealing my paver deck, and the fiberglass shell should be ok. Besides, the swimming experience is awesome!!

I think bottled water would be more enjoyable. if you gave people a choice they will always pick ECOsmarte water over salt water. our water you can climb out of the pool and have no need to shower. and the water tastes good' you also do not need a fresh swim suit to ware to friends houses. we will not fade a swim suit.

I should also mention that our system we test PH Calcium and Copper

A salt water pool will need to be treated like a chlorine pool. and in the cold months when the heat is off the salt pools will get merky where ours do not.

Good luck with your pool

Jeff

With that eco smart thing it uses copper to sanitize and it you screw up your chemistry the copper will come out of solution and stain everything.

Also in cold pool water nothing can grow so it will not get murky. The murky comes from leaving the pool covered to long in spring or closing to early in fall

If you add to much copper to a pool with out chlorine you get a blue tint to the whole poole surface. if you leave it it will go back into solution.

the stains that you see from copper are yellow and black or green which usually only come of with acid wash.

those stains are from using chlorine in a pool ECOsmarte does not use chlorine so they do not get the yellow' black or green stains', that only when a sharp pool service tech that knows everything shocks a copper ionized pool. pools that use just a copper ionizer will always need chlorine or nonchlorine shock to oxyidize particals those pools will always stain. ECOsmarte splits the Hydrogen and Oxygen out of water to do the oxydizing and the hyrogen keeps the pool from scaling the ecosmarte oxygen is alot softer oxydizer than chlorine and as a result we do not knock the copper out of the water.

If you have never tried a ecosmarte system you should before you comment on it.

If you are in the swimming pool business and would like to try one i will put one on a pool of your choice.

you will put a top mount sand filter with glass on the pool A TA-100 size and i will provide the glass also.

then you will only email or call me on how to run the pool. if after a year of using our system then you can slam it to you heart's content

the customer i would like is one with well water with rust and high calcium. some one that you have never made happy. the pool is always stained of has alot of scale always.

I put my money where my mouth is can you do the same? check out my pool www.poolguy.com/mypool.htm

Jeff