Infinity Spas Acquires Key's Hot Tub Business

[TinyBubbles]

Pool & Spa News says Infinity spas will now be one of the largest spa makers in America. Key's backyard was unable to make a go of things because of the downturn in the spa market. Key's bought into the hot tub market at a time off record sales.

[biggz]

Pool & Spa News says Infinity spas will now be one of the largest spa makers in America. Key's backyard was unable to make a go of things because of the downturn in the spa market. Key's bought into the hot tub market at a time off record sales.

I just read the article. and it sounds like a good decision on Keys to sell now. Kudos to Infinity. When Keys acquire Image spa in 05 that purchase made them arguably the 3 largest then. Now with Infinity buying Keys spa division this purchase will make Infinity the 3rd largest hot tub manufacturer. Who's one and two?

see link:

http://www.poolspanews.com/2007/112/112topnews.html

[TinyBubbles]

It should make you feel good about your purchase of a key's spa. Obviously, they had something worth buying out.

[Roger]

It should make you feel good about your purchase of a key's spa. Obviously, they had something worth buying out.

Yes, a whole bunch of people looking for inexpensive tubs.

[spaidiot]

You know what's crazy is people are not buying cheap spas right now, the only market is higher end tubs. Take it as you want, but this is from a salesman beating the bushes and it's a fact.

[itsallgood]

Could it be that people are buying the less expensive tubs from places without salesmen?

[Dr. Hot Tub]

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!! MORE TUBS TO REPAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mark2550]

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!! MORE TUBS TO REPAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever you truly believe

[Roger]

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!! MORE TUBS TO REPAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't agree, this will change nothing. Theres not going to be this major influx of inexpensive tubs flooding the market. There share will stay the same. Theres a whole lot of people out there that don't want an inexpenive tub. They want a top of the line dealer backed product. Ask the folks at Watkins, the largest hot tub manufacturer in the world.

[biggz]

I'm more incline to think that if anything they may charge more for tubs in the future. They obviously have cornered this niche market allowing them more control to charge what they want.

[TinyBubbles]

Roger, I forgot, what type of spa do you own? Do you soak every day? With all the use your spa gets, has it ever needed repair?

[Roger]

Roger, I forgot, what type of spa do you own? Do you soak every day? With all the use your spa gets, has it ever needed repair?

Tiny, I'm not sure why the amount of soaking I do or the brand I own would have anything to do with this thread. But I do work on a tub or 2 or 3 every single week of varying brands, the last one happened to be a Keys as our local Home Depot sold them a few years back, not sure what brand they are selling now as I have moved 40 miles south of Duluth, and haven't been there in a while. The last 4000 dollar tub I actualy bought had an ozonator replaced in 6 years and 4 jets. Then I sold it for 2500. I am currently soaking in a sauna almost everyday. And I like it at about 126 F. Does this answer your question?

As long as we are straying from the thread. What brand do you own, how long have you owned it and is it your first tub?

[B0Darc]

Home Depot still sells Keyes... well not NOW

[TinyBubbles]

Roger, I forgot, what type of spa do you own? Do you soak every day? With all the use your spa gets, has it ever needed repair?

Tiny, I'm not sure why the amount of soaking I do or the brand I own would have anything to do with this thread. But I do work on a tub or 2 or 3 every single week of varying brands, the last one happened to be a Keys as our local Home Depot sold them a few years back, not sure what brand they are selling now as I have moved 40 miles south of Duluth, and haven't been there in a while. The last 4000 dollar tub I actualy bought had an ozonator replaced in 6 years and 4 jets. Then I sold it for 2500. I am currently soaking in a sauna almost everyday. And I like it at about 126 F. Does this answer your question?

As long as we are straying from the thread. What brand do you own, how long have you owned it and is it your first tub?

You seem very passionate about certain brands of tub, so I am curious which one you own. I own an Artesian spa, it is my first one and I've owned it for about 2 months. You mentioned your last tub, do you not own one now? That's helpful to know that your old spa, also, had issues that needed to be addressed. I've noticed that alot of people on here have issues with their spa, regardless of the manufacturer. You point out another plus for Key's spas, there was a problem and the owner had no problem having a repair person like yourself fix it. I'm not sure why you would ask how what brand of spa you own is relevant, since you seem incredibly concerned with what brand of tub everyone else chooses to buy, where they buy it and how much they pay for it. If you don't feel that your personal spa ownership is relevant, then how is anyone elses puchase relevant. Riddle me this!

[Roger]

You seem very passionate about certain brands of tub, so I am curious which one you own. I own an Artesian spa, it is my first one and I've owned it for about 2 months. You mentioned your last tub, do you not own one now? That's helpful to know that your old spa, also, had issues that needed to be addressed. I've noticed that alot of people on here have issues with their spa, regardless of the manufacturer. You point out another plus for Key's spas, there was a problem and the owner had no problem having a repair person like yourself fix it. I'm not sure why you would ask how what brand of spa you own is relevant, since you seem incredibly concerned with what brand of tub everyone else chooses to buy, where they buy it and how much they pay for it. If you don't feel that your personal spa ownership is relevant, then how is anyone elses puchase relevant. Riddle me this!

I am not passionate about any brand. But being around alot of brands for a while has convinced me that there is a difference between a 4000 dollar tub and an 8000 dollar tub. Artesian is in my personal top ten, which rightfully is different than alot of others personal top ten. No I do not own a tub now as the purchase of this lake property has severly limited my funding of the electrical and base requirments of tub ownership in Northern Minnesota. Notice I didn't say tub because I have access to several tubs either at cost or refurbed for almost no cost (I refurb several a year) My issue is with the comparision between 2 spas being equal when one cost half as much as the other.

When someone says there 4000 dollar Keys tub is just as good as the 8000 dollar Dimension One some other guy bought, because it has just as many jets and a bigger motor, here's where I interject the differences based on my experience. And as always they can take it or leave it as nothing more than my opinion. I'm not concerned with what brand people buy, I am concerned that they may not be getting the longevity, dealer support or warranty that matches up to the higher end products even if they have been led to believe they do. And if that is what they choose, welcome to spatopia, enjoy your purchase.

I enjoy helping people on this forum and will continue to do so regardless of how my credibility suffers with new comers that don't agree with my opinion or advice.

[TinyBubbles]

Your last post was reasonable and offered your opinion. I have, however, on many occassions seen you call people's tubs junk, etc. Now saying a $4,000 tub is different than an $8,000 is far different than calling something junk or trash. An example is earlier in this thread where you are delighted that there will be more tubs out there to repair.* How is that statement constructive? Does it do anyone any good? I try to figure out why people say such hurtful things on this forum, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. You yourself just said that your budget is limited at this point. What about other people who's budgets are limited but still want to own a spa? I have stayed out of the fray, until yesterday. When 8 innocent people are gunned down while Christmas shopping, things are put into perspective. Do you really need to call names or put down someone's spa? I thank God that my loved ones are still here and I pray for the families that lost their's yesterday. Unless the money is coming out of your pocket to buy these "junk spas", what do you care? You could offer your advice in a kind way and tell them whatever spa they choose that you hope they enjoy

======

* This was not Roger but Dr. Hot Tub.

[Roger]

Your last post was reasonable and offered your opinion. I have, however, on many occassions seen you call people's tubs junk, etc. Now saying a $4,000 tub is different than an $8,000 is far different than calling something junk or trash. An example is earlier in this thread where you are delighted that there will be more tubs out there to repair. How is that statement constructive? Does it do anyone any good? I try to figure out why people say such hurtful things on this forum, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. You yourself just said that your budget is limited at this point. What about other people who's budgets are limited but still want to own a spa? I have stayed out of the fray, until yesterday. When 8 innocent people are gunned down while Christmas shopping, things are put into perspective. Do you really need to call names or put down someone's spa? I thank God that my loved ones are still here and I pray for the families that lost their's yesterday. Unless the money is coming out of your pocket to buy these "junk spas", what do you care? You could offer your advice in a kind way and tell them whatever spa they choose that you hope they enjoy

Tiny...could you please go back and read this thread and post for me my delight in more cheap tubs to fix??????***

For some reason for someone who is trying to stay out of the frey your finding things in what I say and misinterpreting them and confusing them with what others say...Hmmmmm

I may have called someones tub junk in the past but I am sure it was in comparision and in context it probably fit. Junk in less than 10 years or I have seen plenty of junk XXX brand, whatever.

[TinyBubbles]

If that's all you got out of that post, there is nothing else to be said.

[Roger]

If that's all you got out of that post, there is nothing else to be said.

I usualy find inacuracys in any post offending, and you have enjoyably pointed out mine also.

I guess there is nothing more to be said.

[B0Darc]

Christmas is such a special time of year... all the hugging and kissing and shooting and anger. TinyBubbles you need to lay down the kinder gentler baseball bat of Love, you're starting to sound like my Mom... being right isn't helping you. Remember the real meaning of Christmas is the un-human behavior we would all like to gain mastery over... giving and expecting nothing in return. "I'll be nice to you if you're nice to me... first" is the recipe for War. Don't feel defensive... you won't feel this hug {{TinyBubz}}

The Salesmen here are feeling the heat of the Bad Apple! I had my own business (not spas) for over a decade and I logged plenty of miles "beating bushes" and "feeding babies". I was only able to stay in business for that long because I had a good reputation, and as you can imagine with my level of BS I can sell manure to a dairy farmer "...well we feed our dwarf cattle smaller meals and the resulting micro-poos are higher is Omega-3 oils..." like rollin' offa log Miss. So there's only a human conscience between being a good salesman and a Con man.

The mention of anything negative that even ~slightly~ infers one has a less than shiny reputation will be met with bristling hostility. Tread gently as a reputation is all the salesman has. The ChillyBilly story has feathers ruffled, cut folks in here some slack. Small companies...like the pool place you work for Tiny, struggle every day ...even though they may not show it. That's why I say "every dollar I spend is a Vote for who I want to see in business next year". Customer Service comes from people who you gave money to, usually... in the hopes you will give them more money ...so they can be there six months from now to repeat the cycle. Loyalty quid pro quo

The W-Mart syndrome occurs when you discover you can save a few bucks by cutting out the middleman until you realize THATS the guy who gave you the customer service. The few bucks you saved VOTED you right into a world of NO customer service. The 4 grand saved on a hottub was someones salary that month... that guy that was so helpful for free when your water was cloudy or your ozonator didn't seem to be making any bubbles. The guy who stocks a variety of product lines for you to choose from, because caring about you feeds his kids. Choose wisely. You want to peek behind the curtain and have the secret sauce revealed... your dollar is the secret sauce and you get *exactly* what you paid for... well maybe not Chill Bill.

Breathe deeeep... the Christmas air gets thin in FLA. One more time <iiiiiin hooold it... oooout> ahhh Feeeel the generosity wash over you... from now till Jan 2nd you will tip 20% ... you will buy a Vodka made in America... you will give the paperboy $20 ...even though he is 45 years old and his name is Rashneesh ...Gramma said, "if you don't have something nice to say..." <insert Christmas cheer here>

Bo "I'm comin' in for the real thing!" Darc {{{}}}

[Roger]

I know I can feel the love!

Thanks Bo

[Dr. Hot Tub]

Six months later.... I did make the post that it was great news that Key's was aquired, and that there will be more tubs for us to repair. We repair currently 71 manufactures hot tubs. Key's was a miniscule 4.3% of the repairs. Now it has jumped to 19.1% in just the last 3 months. That's impressive when I compare it to the others.

There is a difference of course between a D1, Hotsprings, Sundance, heck even a Masterspa Down east line compared to the inexpensive tubs made by Inifinity. What I do see is that customers are buying more of the entry levels and less of the higher end tubs over the last three years, and especially the last six months. I can easily see this since I count the trucks/shipments coming into my local dealers besides repairing all of their tubs and I can see first hand that at the moment people are purchasing low end with the idea that they can buy 3-4 Inifinity spas compared to one of the same size of the big ten. I love the idea of more lower end tubs being purchased, since they will need repairs and a lot more often then the top 3. That of course is a big difference. There was no SLAM from me of their product, nor any of the others. I love them all. They feed me.

I do think the big three need to start thinking about the lower/entry level a bit more, that's an easy to make statment when you look at the top 3 companies bottom line in their financial statments that we can see. I do look forward to see what 2008's industry figures are going to show. Will it be another 40 something plus decline in overall sales? A quick look at the local vacant D1 store that was a 30 year business tells me a lot.

[Dr. Hot Tub]

QUOTE(TinyBubbles @ Dec 6 2007, 12:07 PM)

Your last post was reasonable and offered your opinion. I have, however, on many occassions seen you call people's tubs junk, etc. Now saying a $4,000 tub is different than an $8,000 is far different than calling something junk or trash. An example is earlier in this thread where you are delighted that there will be more tubs out there to repair. How is that statement constructive? Does it do anyone any good? I try to figure out why people say such hurtful things on this forum, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. You yourself just said that your budget is limited at this point. What about other people who's budgets are limited but still want to own a spa? I have stayed out of the fray, until yesterday. When 8 innocent people are gunned down while Christmas shopping, things are put into perspective. Do you really need to call names or put down someone's spa? I thank God that my loved ones are still here and I pray for the families that lost their's yesterday. Unless the money is coming out of your pocket to buy these "junk spas", what do you care? You could offer your advice in a kind way and tell them whatever spa they choose that you hope they enjoy"

I said I am delighted that cheap tubs are out there since all I do is fix hot tubs. What else should we call a tub that is not well made, very inexpensive and will fall apart before the warranty does? Only thing that comes to my mind is cheap! This year after three years of doing this full time I just netted one million after taxes/payroll(3 people) and expenses. As I look backwards at what we did and fixed in 08-09, the tubs we fixed were overwhelmingly hot tubs that are cheap. So that poor person that spent 4k on an entry level hot tub by the end of their third years has spent another 1500-2200 in repairs. I stress over and over and will call names each and every time I see a manufacture cut corners and build a piece of crap. So the only thing I have left to say to you is THANK YOU! Your a proponent of cheap tubs and they make me a lot of money! Keep on urging the low end and ignoring those of us that work on these things for a living have to say.