Symore Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Hello; I am a newbe here and found some really great information in this forum. Just got back from the Hot Spring dealer after placing my order for a 2007 Grandee. The electrician who will be installing the electric hookup told me in order to pass inspection I need to place rubber mats around the hot tub. The reason for this is for grounding since the tub is going on an existing concrete patio. Does anyone know where to buy these mats? Thanks in advance for any advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 me thinks he is full of poopoo.... but not to say there is not some local ordnance that requires it for whatever reason. I would get a second opinion or call your local inspectors office for county to ask directly.... I think most codes are permanent or physical requirements whether hand rails on steps, GFCI breaker on power, or fences around pools or yards. If throwing a mat down that can be removed without any effort or tools 2 minutes after inspection is required...then not too sure how that is enforced...just does not make sense but then again...every municipality is different and I am no inspector but was around my father in law enough over the years as a county building inspector and building manager for large resort community here.... I would really be leery if he offers to sell you some or include them in the hookup price....for an extra fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave nh Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 The most recent electric code requires an equipotential bonding grid within 3' of the pool/tub. It is generally made up of copper wire grids bonded together. Cant imaging the cost it is going to add to big pool installations. Cant imagine removable rubber mats would be an alternative, but there must be some way to work with existing patios without jackhammering and installing a copper grid. Talk to the local inspector who issues the permit for the tub/electrical installation. good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symore Posted November 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Hello, Thanks for the replies. I just got off the phone with the local inspector and it is true about needing the mats. He said they must be at least 3ft. wide around the the tub where ever you can step out onto the patio, in my case that is on two sides. It seems to be a good alternative to ripping up the concrete. Just need to find some place that sells this type of matting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinyBubbles Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Where do you live? I work for a pool builder, so I understand bonding grids, but I don't get this one. Can anyone explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave nh Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Hello, Thanks for the replies. I just got off the phone with the local inspector and it is true about needing the mats. He said they must be at least 3ft. wide around the the tub where ever you can step out onto the patio, in my case that is on two sides. It seems to be a good alternative to ripping up the concrete. Just need to find some place that sells this type of matting. Good job...your locality must consider the mats to be "non-conductive decking", makes sense. I picked up some rubber mats at home chepot for the winter but they have holes in them to let the snow/ice through so i dont know if that would work in your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickJ Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 I would check with a warehouse supply company. They would have rubber anti-fatigue mats. Did the inspector say how thick that mats needed to be? If they don't care, you could probably get away with some rubber entry mats from Home Depot, Lowes, or Menards. I've heard good things about these guys. http://www.uline.com/Group_36.asp?pricode=WB69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symore Posted November 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Hello and thanks for the great ideas. I live in Ocean County N.J. and the electrical inspector said a min. of 3/8" solid or 1/2" with holes. One side needs a 3x10' and the other 3x9' and both will need to be trimmed for an exact fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickJ Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Wow. Those are pretty strict requirements. You might have the best luck looking online. http://www.matsmatsmats.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 well, that is definitely an eye opener for me and wonder why a hot tub on poured patio is different from a in ground pool or hot tub....or even the whirlpool tubs? Oh well...just glad I don't live there.... can someone give me the reasoning behind doing that in addition to the GFCI and termination boxes already required by most codes? I really want to understand the reasoning and validity to the requirement.... when in doubt call the local inspector office as I mentioned....and sounds like good thing you did instead of listening to me. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 I'm looking for matting to put around my spa and found this website: http://www.softnsafefloors.com/buymatsonline.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 the stuff they use in kitchens by wash racks and such that have thick rubber material with large porous holes to let water go through to subsurface while still giving cushion and good traction might be best around for what you want......just depends if the code is for slippage or to lessen chance of current being conducted from spa through concrete to your wet feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave nh Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 The mats i picked up at home depot are 3x3 and are at least a half inch thick (with holes) , you can connect them. i think they were around $19 per 3x3 section. They are restaurant style fatigue mats as the poster above mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave nh Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 well, that is definitely an eye opener for me and wonder why a hot tub on poured patio is different from a in ground pool or hot tub....or even the whirlpool tubs? Oh well...just glad I don't live there.... can someone give me the reasoning behind doing that in addition to the GFCI and termination boxes already required by most codes? I really want to understand the reasoning and validity to the requirement.... when in doubt call the local inspector office as I mentioned....and sounds like good thing you did instead of listening to me. LOL Brock, The spa is no different from a pool, the reason the poster is required to do this is that his locality has likely adopted the 2005 national electric code which requires an equipotential bonding on all new pool and spa installation. I am not an electician but i think it had something to do with stray currents having the potential to shock users of the pool/spa, not from the dedicated GFCI source. I am sure there was an occurance somewhere for this to have been adopted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireman Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 I think the whold equipotential grid for portable hot tubs is insane. I'm going to have to really scrutinize the 2008 code when I get one and see if there is a way around it. I know a sure fire way to not have a problem. Don't get it inspected. : ) The thing is already GFI protected. Why would you want a better path to ground under your tub so just in case the GFI failed you could more easily be shocked. LOL! That rubber mat deal must be a local code. It's not in the NEC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 That rubber mat deal must be a local code. It's not in the NEC. Local codes always supercede the NEC. And let me tell ya some city councilors are genious electricians....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 i am no electrician, no inspector, no councilman...and dont even claim to act as such on the internet but my first thoughts were someone got a little bite from an improperly wired or grounded spa....wanted to sue to place blame elsewhere instead of that they wired it themselves or used smaller gauge wire than required or something.........and because of th suit they enacted this rule. I still dont understand how a properly wired, grounded and installed spa with a GFCI is going to leak current like that.....so trying to understand the ruling. Next question... How many people really went and got a permit to install your portable device in back yard? Dont answer for yourself but your friends so there will be no incurred admittance of guilt. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireman Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Not me.. LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgood Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 I have a "close friend" who opted pull a permit for his spa installation. He still regrets it. Turns out he needed 3 permits to complete the project - electrical, plumbing, and Construction. Additionally he was required to submit a survey to the zoning department to identify the placement of the spa on the property. (For a fee, of course.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 I never understood the permit thing for a spa...i can understand MAYBE for running electricity....but nobody gets permit for building a small deck or pouring a small slab of concrete.....nobody is building a hot spa permanently in the ground. ...well almost nobody as majority is what is called portable spas. I usually think of permits for things that you cant take with you or move around...and our spas can definitely be moved without a lot of effort with four friends and a trailer or big wheeled dolly. Just think about it...we are taking something that was already built to government standards and certified by someone. Then we are placing it in a location of our yard and filling with water....like placing a prebuilt storage building or container in your back yard.....or building a picnic table for 10 people and having it delivered and placed in yard....or a trampoline. Now running electricity I can understand the call for a permit if they are running long distance and it is requiring installation of GFCI in main panel and such. The other things I dont understand other than letting your HOA know you are building a huge deck or pouring 50 yards of concrete... Anyone else see it like I do...not saying I did not pull a permit for electricity but just saying it does not make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave nh Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 I have a "close friend" who opted pull a permit for his spa installation. He still regrets it. Turns out he needed 3 permits to complete the project - electrical, plumbing, and Construction. Additionally he was required to submit a survey to the zoning department to identify the placement of the spa on the property. (For a fee, of course.) Unfortunately a spa is generally considered to have the same requirements as installing a pool. With that said, having a surveying background, I have seen pools, expensive decks, sheds fences, even garages and additions, etc. well onto other peoples property or on easements or other rights of way. In many cases it is the second owner of the property who did not even do the work. You know the first people they blame? The town or city or "allowing" it to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symore Posted November 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Hello, After searching online for awhile and not finding anything local I went to Home Depot. They have 1/2" thick black rubber mats with drain holes. They are 3'x3' interlocking so I bought seven of them at 19.98 each. This was a lucky find for me because I could not find a better price online. And since they weigh to much they would have to be freight delivered. So now I am set for when the tub arrives and can get it inspected. Yes I thought about not getting a permit but if anything happens such as an accident or fire I know my homeowners insurance will cover it. Without a permit if I sell my house I would still have to get a permit or if they re-access my property so in my situation I have peace of mind. This town only requires an electrical permit. I want to thank everyone for their help with this. This will be my first hot tub and this forum helped me a lot with all the great information here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billhill Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I have a "close friend" who opted pull a permit for his spa installation. He still regrets it. Turns out he needed 3 permits to complete the project - electrical, plumbing, and Construction. Additionally he was required to submit a survey to the zoning department to identify the placement of the spa on the property. (For a fee, of course.) I'm in the same boat right now. (Building, Electric & Zoning). This is almost detering me from getting a spa. Electric I can understand........but the whole equipotential bonding issue makes no sense to me. If the enty to the spa is off a deck and the remaining perimeter of the spa will be surrouded by grass/lanscaping why do i need the grid. The building permit for pouring a 8x9 slab? And zoning. Typical for Jersey........blow everything out of proportion and throw money at it. All I want is a good soak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDenham Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Out here in Oregon there are several rubber supply companies that sell 1"thick Rubber mats for Horse Stalls that are usually 4x6 and run about $20 each. Just a thought. You may want to look at farm supply stores also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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