Folliculitis Incident

[sefuller]

I am reading with interest all the posts on pseudomonas. We inherited a 250 gallon spa with a house we purchased a while ago. The spa had been left uncovered in the yard for an undetermined amount of time, and had leaves and a few inches of water and scum in it. I scrubbed the entire inside with softscrub, filled it and found to my amazement it worked. We live in Wisconsin, and I assumed it would have had parts destroyed by freezing during winter(s) left untended. I visited our local spa dealer and told them what I had, and asked for their recommendations for starting to use the spa. They set me up on Brilliance, and sent me home with a starter kit. This was in July of 2008. It took about a week to get things somewhat regulated - we are on a well with very high iron content, and whether or not that is a factor, it took a long time to get the PH in balance. I began using the spa a few evenings each week, and my wife would occasionally join me. During the first few months, I suspect I had watermold as I would see flakes like dead skin floating in the water. When I discussed this with the dealer, they recommended swirl-away when I did the water change. I should back up to say that using the Brilliance system (bromine) I would test the water almost every other day. My free chlorine never even registered on the scale, and when I would ask the dealer about this, they told me not to worry about it because I was using the bromine.

I did a water change early in November, using the swirl away first. My water appeared much clearer after the change, but it still took a while to get the PH back in sync. At this point in the fall, I was in the spa nearly every night for 15 minutes, with my wife joining me probably 4 nights a week. By late November or early December, I noticed the flow through my jets was poor. I looked at the filter and found that between the pleats it was coated with a whitish slime. Also about this time, I had an ear infection - the first one in 38 years! I had been changing the filter about every 4 weeks or so, based on what the dealer told me. I was also letting the off duty filter soak for a long time in filter cleaner (which I found out later was not good - I now soak it for a few hours to overnight). About this time, I also discovered that the filter model that had been in the spa when we bought the house was about 5 sq ft of filter, where the manufacturer spec'd a 25 sq ft filter. I bought 2 new filters and began rotating them every week - based on NEW advice from the dealer. (My experience with this dealer had led me to believe that managing a spa was far more art than science as every time I asked them for advice, I got different information - sometimes conflicting with previous information). Instead of their previous recommendation to change the filter monthly, they now told me due to the design of the spa I am way underfiltered even at 25 sq. ft. , so I should change at least weekly, which I have been doing. They had no explanation for the white slime on the filter, other than poor water chemistry. I found this frustrating because I monitored the water via my test strips regularly, and kept everything I had been told was important within the recommended range. When I also mentioned that I had some small itchy bumps on my legs and around my armpits, they said it could be water quality related or maybe not. They suggested perhaps I should use a small amount of chlorine once in a while in addition to the bromine.

Based on the reading I have done on this site this evening, I have concluded I need to seek out a new dealer. I can see that I am looking at a drain, scrub and refill, including decontamination. Unfortunately, we are having the coldest week of the year currently - with temps below zero for much of the rest of the week. I will be going to see a dermatologist to see what I need to do to clear up the folliculitis as well.

I am sure I will stumble across something somewhere on the site, but is there a spas for dummies type guide that I could use to help me set up a good maintenance routine? I have absolutely no confidence at all in the local dealer, who I believe gave me bad advice that brought me to this point. I am surprised they did not suggest running something through the spa to clean out the lines when I first set it up, given it's dubious history. I do not have an ozonator on the spa.

Thanks for any advice!

Scott

[limulus]

One of the chemistry experts will come along soon and knock this one out of the park. But if you want to do some reading and you're after simplicity, maybe something like the Frog system with a bromine floater would be the way to go.

[sefuller]

One of the chemistry experts will come along soon and knock this one out of the park. But if you want to do some reading and you're after simplicity, maybe something like the Frog system with a bromine floater would be the way to go.

I have the Brilliance bromine floater - and I will find out what the Frog system is as I keep reading here:-)

My bromine level has always been fine according to my test strips. I suspect given the reading I've done this evening that it was the fact that the free chlorine level was never above 1 that started the problems. That and the fact that who knows what was already growing in the tubes when I first started it up.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

There are a few things to address, first, the spa never got truely decontaminated. Without a full decontamination, the germs and or mold will come right back again.

Decontamination Procedure from the international aquatic foundation....

1. Filters: Remove the filter cartridge and either clean or replace. To clean the filter, first use a filter cleaner as per label directions. After rinsing the filter completely submerge the cartridge in a 1/10 dilution of sodium hypochlorite(liquid bleach) from 1-4 hours. Inspect and clean the filter housing interior(where the filter sits)

2. Raise the water level in the spa to 1/2 inch above the high water mark.

3. Add at least 100ppm chlorine to the spa. (2.5 ounces per 100 gallons to reach this level of Dichlor)

4. cover the spa.

5. Circulate the water for 30-45 minutes making sure the jets are on high.

6. While the water is circulating, turn air on and off every 5 minutes.

7. shut off and drain, while draining rinse the sides several times, clean pillows, backside of cover and places the water does not reach.

8. Clean the spa with a surface cleaner, rinse off the side to remove the cleaner.

9. Drain any remaining water, a wet vac could be used to help, place on each jet to suck the water out of those.

10. Refill spa and balance water.

11. to verify decontamination, shock treat the spa with 10ppm of chlorine and circulate 8-12 hours, then check sanitizer level. If there is no free chlorine risidual, excessive demand may still exist. Repeat the above process.

12. If free chlorine level is found, proceed with routine maintenance of spa.

As far as the Brillance, we sell it and it works really well. It is a chlorine free bromine system. My concern is that you have high iron in the water. Are they having you use a metal remover when you start the spa up?

Filter cycles depend on spa use. Most people set them for 4 hours 2 times per day, you can adjust from there with spa use. With 25 square foot filters, I would clean them weekly, not soak them, but rinse them out really well and soak them monthly.

The frog is no less complicated than Brillance. It is just adding a mineral stick into the equation allowing you to keep lower bromine readings. Your dealer is right, using bromine you do not need to worry about a chlorine reading, Brillance has no chlorine. They use a multi purpose test strip for the brillance system.

Only a dermatologist can tell you what is up with your skin, it could be hot tub folliculitis, or a sensitivity to bromine or a sensitivity to the goop growing in the water. Decontaminate your tub, its the first step no matter what.

[sefuller]

There are a few things to address, first, the spa never got truely decontaminated. Without a full decontamination, the germs and or mold will come right back again.

All my reading about Pseudomonas says it forms a slime layer that is resistant to chlorine, yet all the decontamination procedures rely on chlorine. If I am going to to through this exercise, I want to be sure I get it right the first time - it's in the single digits here! Is the chlorine the only way to get rid if it??

[chem geek]

The decontamination process uses HIGH amounts of chlorine (100 ppm). The slime layer is not impermeable to chlorine, it's just resistant to the lower normal levels of chlorine used when you soak which is the main reason you never want the chlorine level to get low in the spa since you want to kill the bacteria BEFORE it gets a chance to form a significant slime layer.

[Nitro]

All my reading about Pseudomonas says it forms a slime layer that is resistant to chlorine, yet all the decontamination procedures rely on chlorine. If I am going to to through this exercise, I want to be sure I get it right the first time - it's in the single digits here! Is the chlorine the only way to get rid if it??

Don't worry, nothing can live in 100 ppm chlorine, not even you.

Although, there is one other option, you can buy a new tub.

[Nitro]

I am sure I will stumble across something somewhere on the site, but is there a spas for dummies type guide that I could use to help me set up a good maintenance routine? I have absolutely no confidence at all in the local dealer, who I believe gave me bad advice that brought me to this point. I am surprised they did not suggest running something through the spa to clean out the lines when I first set it up, given it's dubious history. I do not have an ozonator on the spa.

After you get your tub decontaminated, check THIS post out. It may be just what you're looking for.