Do Spas Have Msrps?

[Hazy]

Hi,

In researching spas, I can't find MSRP's (manufacturer's suggested retail prices) anywhere. Do they exist? If so, is there a public place to find them? None of the spa manufacturer's web sites that I've perused seem to have them. This would include the Sundance, Hotspring, Marquis, D1 and Jacuzzi web sites.

It's quite a disadvantage going into a store where the salespeople know the MSRPs and the customers don't. It would be helpful to find the spa equivalent of www.kbb.com, but it doesn't appear that such a beast exists.

[Brulan1]

Hi,

In researching spas, I can't find MSRP's (manufacturer's suggested retail prices) anywhere. Do they exist? If so, is there a public place to find them? None of the spa manufacturer's web sites that I've perused seem to have them. This would include the Sundance, Hotspring, Marquis, D1 and Jacuzzi web sites.

It's quite a disadvantage going into a store where the salespeople know the MSRPs and the customers don't. It would be helpful to find the spa equivalent of www.kbb.com, but it doesn't appear that such a beast exists.

From my experience the manufacturer gives us the Suggested retail price.

[Chas]

Kelly Blue Book is a compilation of information. It simply tells you what a certain model car has been selling for.

Since the spa industry is so much smaller, and so few people use financing, there is really no way to gather that same type of info for spas.

But you are NOT at a disadvantage: find the tub you like, at a dealer you like, and buy the thing. Knowing that there is flex in some dealer's pricing, you can make an offer. The dealer only has two ways to respond: no or yes. If no, you can then ask for extra goodies to be included. Once again, the dealer really only has two possible anwers. As a long-time dealer, I can assure you that I will not sell a tub below the price I need to keep me in business. But I will not sell it too high, or the exact same results will overtake me.

Spa shopping - even hunting for the "big deal" is much less fun than spa ownership.

And keep in mind that a dealer who overcharges or undercharges will not stay in business long.

[Brulan1]

Kelly Blue Book is a compilation of information. It simply tells you what a certain model car has been selling for.

Since the spa industry is so much smaller, and so few people use financing, there is really no way to gather that same type of info for spas.

But you are NOT at a disadvantage: find the tub you like, at a dealer you like, and buy the thing. Knowing that there is flex in some dealer's pricing, you can make an offer. The dealer only has two ways to respond: no or yes. If no, you can then ask for extra goodies to be included. Once again, the dealer really only has two possible anwers. As a long-time dealer, I can assure you that I will not sell a tub below the price I need to keep me in business. But I will not sell it too high, or the exact same results will overtake me.

Spa shopping - even hunting for the "big deal" is much less fun than spa ownership.

And keep in mind that a dealer who overcharges or undercharges will not stay in business long.

That is an excellent point.

[Amanda]

Hi,

In researching spas, I can't find MSRP's (manufacturer's suggested retail prices) anywhere. Do they exist? If so, is there a public place to find them? None of the spa manufacturer's web sites that I've perused seem to have them. This would include the Sundance, Hotspring, Marquis, D1 and Jacuzzi web sites.

It's quite a disadvantage going into a store where the salespeople know the MSRPs and the customers don't. It would be helpful to find the spa equivalent of www.kbb.com, but it doesn't appear that such a beast exists.

Hi Hazy!

Yes, MSRP's exist. When I am going over the cost of a spa with someone (in a showroom)... there are many options available so one spa could have a rather large price range depending on what you are looking for and how many do-dads you want. I created a sheet (in duplicate- one for me and one for the researcher) that explains what the msrp is for each item, and also the current sale price to show the differences. A reputable representative will provide this without you even having to ask. More than likely you will not find the price on the internet simply because one spas price can vary so much depending on how you want it. It doesn't hurt to spend some time with someone and ask for this information but it is much more proferrable for it to be simply offered to you. I can understand why you put a frowny face. I don't think everyone does this.

[Brulan1]

Hi Hazy!

Yes, MSRP's exist. When I am going over the cost of a spa with someone (in a showroom)... there are many options available so one spa could have a rather large price range depending on what you are looking for and how many do-dads you want. I created a sheet (in duplicate- one for me and one for the researcher) that explains what the msrp is for each item, and also the current sale price to show the differences. A reputable representative will provide this without you even having to ask. More than likely you will not find the price on the internet simply because one spas price can vary so much depending on how you want it. It doesn't hurt to spend some time with someone and ask for this information but it is much more proferrable for it to be simply offered to you. I can understand why you put a frowny face. I don't think everyone does this.

Locations play a role for different msrp's

[Hazy]

Kelly Blue Book is a compilation of information. It simply tells you what a certain model car has been selling for.

Since the spa industry is so much smaller, and so few people use financing, there is really no way to gather that same type of info for spas.

But you are NOT at a disadvantage: find the tub you like, at a dealer you like, and buy the thing. Knowing that there is flex in some dealer's pricing, you can make an offer. The dealer only has two ways to respond: no or yes. If no, you can then ask for extra goodies to be included. Once again, the dealer really only has two possible anwers. As a long-time dealer, I can assure you that I will not sell a tub below the price I need to keep me in business. But I will not sell it too high, or the exact same results will overtake me.

Spa shopping - even hunting for the "big deal" is much less fun than spa ownership.

And keep in mind that a dealer who overcharges or undercharges will not stay in business long.

You are referring to the used vehicles part of KBB (and www.edmunds.com). On the new vehicle side, they give you the dealer's cost, the MSRP and a bunch of other data useful so that the customer is well informed before going into a dealership. Locally there are several auto dealerships that consistently overcharge, yet have remained in business for years.

It appears to me that the Spa industry is doing its level best to prevent having similar information that is provided by the mentioned auto sites available to the buying public. It certainly isn't doing this for the benefit of the customer.

I'm not trying to make a killer deal. I just want to be informed before going to a dealer so that I can be sure to get a fair deal.

Locations play a role for different msrp's

Why? The cost to produce the spa is the same no matter where it is sold. The only difference is transportation cost. Is that what you are referring to? It seems that MSRP is often determined by the dealer. If not, why not make it public?

[Brulan1]

Why? The cost to produce the spa is the same no matter where it is sold. The only difference is transportation cost. Is that what you are referring to? It seems that MSRP is often determined by the dealer. If not, why not make it public?

The transportation plays a big role and depending if you are in a largely populated area plays a big role as well. For a dealer selling only 50 units a year they will have to charge more to stay in business given the OH is the same. The MSRP for a Coleman dealer in AZ is lower than a coleman dealer in NY.

[Hazy]

The transportation plays a big role and depending if you are in a largely populated area plays a big role as well. For a dealer selling only 50 units a year they will have to charge more to stay in business given the OH is the same. The MSRP for a Coleman dealer in AZ is lower than a coleman dealer in NY.

Your definition of MSRP and mine are different. I understand that a dealer may have to charge more or be able to charge less based on volume of sales, overhead, etc., but that is not MSRP.

[poollady]

Your definition of MSRP and mine are different. I understand that a dealer may have to charge more or be able to charge less based on volume of sales, overhead, etc., but that is not MSRP.

I think Brulan is right on this one. Manufacturers give a "suggested" retail price, but most dealers discount off of it.

[Guzz]

I think Brulan is right on this one. Manufacturers give a "suggested" retail price, but most dealers discount off of it.

I also show my customers MSRP prices, but when you think about it, I could just make them up to make my sale prices look better.

[Amanda]

Hazy, you have a great point. There is a "foundation" price MSRP that has nothing to do with overhead or shipping or electric rates differning in different states. MSRP being the suggested price from the manufacturer. I'm not sure why there isn't something available for this prior to entering a showrrom/ dealer but if you've done some research on the internet and found a spa that you like or narrow it down to a few... take the time to call ahead. They should be able to give you a rough idea before stepping in. Just be aware that the "rough idea" should be defined as msrp or sale and what exactly the quoted price includes. You should be able to have this information available to you prior to actually physically "shopping" if this is something you desire. It just takes a little bit of calling around and clarification. I agree it would be a lot easier if it was all laid out in the open but since it isn't... there are ways to get the information you seek. Good luck with this one.

[Jack L]

I has bothered me how the hot tub dealers work pretty much like the used car salesman. You don't know the prices because none are listed, and you haggle for all you can get, if you are good at doing that sort of thing.

I personally am not one that can haggle for a bargain, and really don't like to spend my time doing so. My wife on the other hand likes to do that so I let her wheel-n-deal. I'd much prefer to just see prices and buy what I want without the game.

[Guzz]

I has bothered me how the hot tub dealers work pretty much like the used car salesman. You don't know the prices because none are listed, and you haggle for all you can get, if you are good at doing that sort of thing.

I personally am not one that can haggle for a bargain, and really don't like to spend my time doing so. My wife on the other hand likes to do that so I let her wheel-n-deal. I'd much prefer to just see prices and buy what I want without the game.

Most dealers have to be competative in their pricing, but have to sell the spa at a reasonable profit to stay in buisness. When I give my customers a price, it is my bottom line. I don't want to haggle, it's a waste of yours and my time. We don't post our pricing because of our competition, who would love to know what our bottom line is. I give non haggle customers what freebies I can for making my life easier, hagglers get NOTHING.

[poollady]

Most dealers have to be competative in their pricing, but have to sell the spa at a reasonable profit to stay in buisness. When I give my customers a price, it is my bottom line. I don't want to haggle, it's a waste of yours and my time. We don't post our pricing because of our competition, who would love to know what our bottom line is. I give non haggle customers what freebies I can for making my life easier, hagglers get NOTHING.

We have the pricing right on our spas. (In one of those clear stand-up plastic things we get at Staples). We list all the features of each spa along with the suggested retail price from the Manufacturer and then our Sale Price. If someone is "just looking" they can walk around and check out the different models along with the price. If someone is really interested, we can take the time to give them more info and spend as much time as they need. From time to time we have a "truckload" sale where the mfg brings in a whole truckload and we fill up the entire parking lot. Other times we just want to move out our display units, so we discount them even further.

[Amanda]

We don't have the prices on the spa.. but for good reason. Not to be deceptive in any way at all (which is what some people assume) but because there are so many different ways one person can have the same spa. With a price that varies so much depending on how it is ordered.. having a price on the spa would be confusing to many people. Actually having a price on the spa itself seems that it would possibly be more deceptive than just taking 5 minutes to explain clearly the MSRP, base price and the options that someone would be interested in. When offering customization... the pricing is also customized.

[Tyler]

We don't have the prices on the spa.. but for good reason. Not to be deceptive in any way at all (which is what some people assume) but because there are so many different ways one person can have the same spa. With a price that varies so much depending on how it is ordered.. having a price on the spa would be confusing to many people. Actually having a price on the spa itself seems that it would possibly be more deceptive than just taking 5 minutes to explain clearly the MSRP, base price and the options that someone would be interested in. When offering customization... the pricing is also customized.

As a consumer I think it's a mistake not to list prices on the spas. I would prefer some type of price listed on the spa for reference purposes. That way, the consumer could at least establish a base line and identify which spas cost more than others. I personally think it's sets a negative image not listing prices. It's a hard enough process to begin with. Withholding pricing information establishes another barrier that must be overcome to gain the dealers trust.

My dealer lists prices on each spa which identifies all the options included at that price. No confusion with his scenario. I believe he/she bumps up the price sheet somewhat for slight negotiating room. If I were a dealer I would use the same logic.

[Brulan1]

As a consumer I think it's a mistake not to list prices on the spas. I would prefer some type of price listed on the spa for reference purposes. That way, the consumer could at least establish a base line and identify which spas cost more than others. I personally think it's sets a negative image not listing prices. It's a hard enough process to begin with. Withholding pricing information establishes another barrier that must be overcome to gain the dealers trust.

My dealer lists prices on each spa which identifies all the options included at that price. No confusion with his scenario. I believe he/she bumps up the price sheet somewhat for slight negotiating room. If I were a dealer I would use the same logic.

As a dealer I also put MSPR's for all spa's

[mattNY]

As a consumer I think it's a mistake not to list prices on the spas. I would prefer some type of price listed on the spa for reference purposes. That way, the consumer could at least establish a base line and identify which spas cost more than others. I personally think it's sets a negative image not listing prices. It's a hard enough process to begin with. Withholding pricing information establishes another barrier that must be overcome to gain the dealers trust.

My dealer lists prices on each spa which identifies all the options included at that price. No confusion with his scenario. I believe he/she bumps up the price sheet somewhat for slight negotiating room. If I were a dealer I would use the same logic.

100% agree on this. All 5 of the dealers in my area post their prices - if they didn't, I'd just walk out.

[Amanda]

It will be very easy to MSRP's on the spa itself. This is a good suggestion.

[Chas]

You said, "You are referring to the used vehicles part of KBB (and www.edmunds.com). On the new vehicle side, they give you the dealer's cost, the MSRP and a bunch of other data useful so that the customer is well informed before going into a dealership. Locally there are several auto dealerships that consistently overcharge, yet have remained in business for years."

Sorry, but you will never know what a car dealer actually paid for a car. You may think those sites are all up-to-date on it, but they have no clue. I have purchased a Chevy truck and a Jeep Cherokee both for thousands less than the dealers "invoice." They even showed it to me to try to get me to pay the price they wanted. I didn't.

Car dealers love it when folks walk in thinking they have the score - those end up being some of the best deals they make.

Chevy gave me a $700 cash rebate for choosing a 4-speed automatic and then they handed me a $1000 coupon for my choice of a rack, toolboxes or DeWalt power tools. And this was after we settled on a price lower than the 'invoice.'

Automakers give dealers incentives, coop for advertising, discounts, rebates and the like. The 'invoice' number you mention is not going to be made public no matter what some website tells you. Look at those websites carefully, they make a ton of money generating traffic.

As to your opinion that there are dealers in your area which are overcharging: there must be plenty of people who don't agree with your or the dealers would be long gone.

[Hazy]

You said, "You are referring to the used vehicles part of KBB (and www.edmunds.com). On the new vehicle side, they give you the dealer's cost, the MSRP and a bunch of other data useful so that the customer is well informed before going into a dealership. Locally there are several auto dealerships that consistently overcharge, yet have remained in business for years."

Sorry, but you will never know what a car dealer actually paid for a car. You may think those sites are all up-to-date on it, but they have no clue. I have purchased a Chevy truck and a Jeep Cherokee both for thousands less than the dealers "invoice." They even showed it to me to try to get me to pay the price they wanted. I didn't.

Car dealers love it when folks walk in thinking they have the score - those end up being some of the best deals they make.

Chevy gave me a $700 cash rebate for choosing a 4-speed automatic and then they handed me a $1000 coupon for my choice of a rack, toolboxes or DeWalt power tools. And this was after we settled on a price lower than the 'invoice.'

Automakers give dealers incentives, coop for advertising, discounts, rebates and the like. The 'invoice' number you mention is not going to be made public no matter what some website tells you. Look at those websites carefully, they make a ton of money generating traffic.

As to your opinion that there are dealers in your area which are overcharging: there must be plenty of people who don't agree with your or the dealers would be long gone.

Chas,

You make a lot of claims here without a shred of backing facts. I suspect that you sell spas the same way.

Regards,

-ken

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Chas,

You make a lot of claims here without a shred of backing facts. I suspect that you sell spas the same way.

Regards,

-ken

Ken,

You make assumptions based about Chas' post without any backing facts. I suspect you deal with most people in this same manner.

Regards,

-st (tuo)

[Hazy]

Ken,

You make assumptions based about Chas' post without any backing facts. I suspect you deal with most people in this same manner.

Regards,

-st (tuo)

That's true. I assume that he is a spa salesman and he may not be. However, that's a lot different that making assertions of fact as Chas has done.

Anyway, it's time to sign off of this forum. I asked one technical question about Sundance spas about a heater and no one is either capable or willing to answer. This thread is the only other thread I started. It has gotten a few good answers (mostly "I don't really know"). I've learned very little about buying a spa from reading other threads in this forum. It mostly seems to be a clique for Spa salespeolple to continue to spread their disinformation (I don't apply this to a few like Amanda and poollady).

Of course, the previous paragraph is only my opinion. Enjoy your little circle guys.

-ken

[Amanda]

Well, I think what Chas is trying to say is not to believe everything you read. The last time I tried to get a car... I did the research and thought I had all the information down pretty well before I walked in. The dealership turned me all around and upside down and everything I asked for (trying to get a good deal of course) required the salesperson to "talk to the manager" again and again (2 hours of this and I was beginning to long for a spot by the fireplace at home with my kitty on my lap). I thought that what I found on the internet was good pricing only to find that the dealer couldn't come close to that because of "blah blah blah"- eloquent excuse after excuse. Or maybe they were just trying to wear me out... needless to say, I walked out without a car that day.

Even with the companies that are posting the prices on the spa... (if it wasn't a floor model priced as it sat) has ANYONE paid the price listed on the spa? MSRP... I'm sure there are a lot of MSRP's out there but what exactly does that mean? Manufacturer's suggested retail price- period. Does having this knowledge give you any leverage? How do you know that the price isn't just "made up" to make a deal look better by the folks who have the MSRP listed? How to you know the MSRP isn't inflated to make up for a dealers overhead? Ask the salesperson "Has anyone EVER paid that price?" Yes, there are going to be companies that overcharge no matter how much information you seek ahead of time... there are ways that they will make it "look like" a good deal to you by posting MSRP's and making the sale look incredible. I think it is important to keep this in mind. Sometimes having the price available to look at means nothing more than a starting point. If getting a starting point is important... it is easy to do. The FINISHING point is the bottom line in my opinion.