Hydrospa (legend 3 From Costco) 2 Major Leaks

[New NW tub owner]

To imply that that a tub leaks because it is not on a concrete slab is rediculous. Is that what hydro is using these days to avoid warranty on its tubs leaking??? In my ten years I have never seen a tub leak because it was on a wood deck. I would have to say in Canada 1 in 10 are put on wood decks. If you have a tub that can only be on concrete or "its going to leak" I would definitely stay away from that product.

I'm not 'implying' that the tub has leaks because it is not on a concrete slab, I am SAYING it. There is nothing wrong, however, with also putting a tub ON a wood deck, as long as the deck is designed to carry the weight of the tub. In this case, however, the tub is siting on planks laid flat on the ground. Planks laid flat have no structural strength. On decks, there are flat planks making up the decking but underneath those planks, there are closely-spaced structural members (joists and beams) which are holding up those planks. Without those structural members, the deck planking by itself would have no ability to carry any weight. ALL hot tub warrantys have language excluding damage caused by inadequately supporting the weight of the tub, and they ALL have language saying that the hot tub company gets to decide what that is. Go read your warranty.

[unhappyHYDROSPAowner]

To imply that that a tub leaks because it is not on a concrete slab is rediculous. Is that what hydro is using these days to avoid warranty on its tubs leaking??? In my ten years I have never seen a tub leak because it was on a wood deck. I would have to say in Canada 1 in 10 are put on wood decks. If you have a tub that can only be on concrete or "its going to leak" I would definitely stay away from that product.

I'm not 'implying' that the tub has leaks because it is not on a concrete slab, I am SAYING it. There is nothing wrong, however, with also putting a tub ON a wood deck, as long as the deck is designed to carry the weight of the tub. In this case, however, the tub is siting on planks laid flat on the ground. Planks laid flat have no structural strength. On decks, there are flat planks making up the decking but underneath those planks, there are closely-spaced structural members (joists and beams) which are holding up those planks. Without those structural members, the deck planking by itself would have no ability to carry any weight. ALL hot tub warrantys have language excluding damage caused by inadequately supporting the weight of the tub, and they ALL have language saying that the hot tub company gets to decide what that is. Go read your warranty.

My Dad had his hottub on sidewalk blocks for 15 years (not recommended by any spa manufacturers). And he never had one leak!

My first leak was right above a pump on a 90 degree elbow that a 3" tube was glued into the 90. The tube came right out. I blame that one on the glue failing that held the tube into the 90 degree fitting. That tells me a few things. Maybe the tub was bounced around furing transport and the glue has cracked or failed. Or that the glue used is too brittle for the application. It should bend a flex and allow for expansion/ contraction.

[unhappyHYDROSPAowner]

To imply that that a tub leaks because it is not on a concrete slab is rediculous. Is that what hydro is using these days to avoid warranty on its tubs leaking??? In my ten years I have never seen a tub leak because it was on a wood deck. I would have to say in Canada 1 in 10 are put on wood decks. If you have a tub that can only be on concrete or "its going to leak" I would definitely stay away from that product.

I'm not 'implying' that the tub has leaks because it is not on a concrete slab, I am SAYING it. There is nothing wrong, however, with also putting a tub ON a wood deck, as long as the deck is designed to carry the weight of the tub. In this case, however, the tub is siting on planks laid flat on the ground. Planks laid flat have no structural strength. On decks, there are flat planks making up the decking but underneath those planks, there are closely-spaced structural members (joists and beams) which are holding up those planks. Without those structural members, the deck planking by itself would have no ability to carry any weight. ALL hot tub warrantys have language excluding damage caused by inadequately supporting the weight of the tub, and they ALL have language saying that the hot tub company gets to decide what that is. Go read your warranty.

Why would my plank set-up not hold "any weight"? Friggin hydrospa told me to just put the tub on bare ground i.e DIRT at first. Then I suggested the pressure treated planks (which my deck builder suggested to me). And hydro agreed that would work and should not be any problem whatsoever.

My leaks aren't due to the surface the spa is on. It's due to the glue used on my hottub. Also, why would they even put a jet on the very bottom of the tub? That is an accident waiting to happen and one that I experienced first hand. Call up hydrospa and ask them and they will tell you that a leak or problem in that area of the tub is common!

[Pathfinder]

I think maybe Hydro should be taught some gluing 101 or they need to switch to purple primer & clear glue instead of clear primer & blue glue. If a pvc fitting isnt primed before its glued then it will most likely come a part.

[104 Degrees]

I think maybe Hydro should be taught some gluing 101 or they need to switch to purple primer & clear glue instead of clear primer & blue glue. If a pvc fitting isnt primed before its glued then it will most likely come a part.

Please say it in Spanish

[Pathfinder]

I almost spat out my coffee

[unhappyHYDROSPAowner]

I think maybe Hydro should be taught some gluing 101 or they need to switch to purple primer & clear glue instead of clear primer & blue glue. If a pvc fitting isnt primed before its glued then it will most likely come a part.

That's what I'm thinkin!

[New NW tub owner]

I think maybe Hydro should be taught some gluing 101 or they need to switch to purple primer & clear glue instead of clear primer & blue glue. If a pvc fitting isnt primed before its glued then it will most likely come a part.

The "blue glue" and clear primer combination is acceptable for any pvc piping purposes and is widely used all over the world. The "blue glue" can also be used without primer accoridng to the manufacturer of most of it (Oatey) although it looks like Hydrospa also uses primer, on my tub connections at least.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Why would my plank set-up not hold "any weight"? Friggin hydrospa told me to just put the tub on bare ground i.e DIRT at first. Then I suggested the pressure treated planks (which my deck builder suggested to me). And hydro agreed that would work and should not be any problem whatsoever.

My leaks aren't due to the surface the spa is on. It's due to the glue used on my hottub. Also, why would they even put a jet on the very bottom of the tub? That is an accident waiting to happen and one that I experienced first hand. Call up hydrospa and ask them and they will tell you that a leak or problem in that area of the tub is common!

'unhappyHYDROSPAowner',

Don’t worry. No one really thinks that has anything to do with your leaks. I doubt NW even thinks it, he just hates it when unhappy hydro owners tell their stories. He starts by first accusing them of not being real and then he tries to invalidate their problems. Then he tries to blame them on things like freezing during shipment even when you get it delivered in Summer time. It is hilarious really because he only wants his rosy reports to be what people think of when they think of that spa.

Your spa leaks have nothing to do with the planks the spa is sitting on. Quite frankly, if they ever did it would be because the spa is too weak in the first place because any HALF way decent spa can sit on flat planks and not have a problem for years and yours has only been there for a few months.

Next thing you know he'll blame the leaks on poor water chemistry.

[New NW tub owner]

Why would my plank set-up not hold "any weight"? Friggin hydrospa told me to just put the tub on bare ground i.e DIRT at first. Then I suggested the pressure treated planks (which my deck builder suggested to me). And hydro agreed that would work and should not be any problem whatsoever.

My leaks aren't due to the surface the spa is on. It's due to the glue used on my hottub. Also, why would they even put a jet on the very bottom of the tub? That is an accident waiting to happen and one that I experienced first hand. Call up hydrospa and ask them and they will tell you that a leak or problem in that area of the tub is common!

Hydrospa should have never told you to put the tub on bare ground, in my opinion. If they said that, they are complete idiots. Laying planks on the ground is only slightly better and is still unacceptable. I can't explain structural engineering here to you but the general idea is to provide uniform consistent support to all parts of the tub and a plank base can NEVER do that. No, not for a 'dealer tub' either. The planks laid flat have no structural strength. Your pictures show that your piping is glued with blue cement which is a very common and perfectly acceptable method of cementing pvc piping and meets all codes and international standards. My hydrospa tub uses the same thing and all joints have been fine. Why are jets on the bottom of the tub? On my tub, they are for foot massaging in the foot well and I think yours is similar. We certainly like ours. There is no accident waiting to happen with a foot jet. They are no different than any other jet. If hydrospa says that leaks there are common, it's probably because the buyers of their tubs are putting them on dirt and that would be the first place for leaks because the bottom of the tub would be in tension after the tub settles differentially on dirt. Maybe Hydrospa doesn't understand basic structural engineering either.

[New NW tub owner]

Your spa leaks have nothing to do with the planks the spa is sitting on. Quite frankly, if they ever did it would be because the spa is too weak in the first place because any HALF way decent spa can sit on flat planks and not have a problem for years and yours has only been there for a few months.

Next thing you know he'll blame the leaks on poor water chemistry.

I am beginning to think that most of the 'professionals' in the hot tub business are complete technical idiots after reading the nonsense that they post here. Your comment is a good example of that. So...spa-no-tech, what does the warranty of the tubs you sell say about the support needed for the tub? Does it say, 'our tubs are half way decent so go ahead and put them on wooden planks laid on the dirt?' If it does, they obviously have not been in business very long and are not likely to be in business much longer.

BTW, poor water chemistry can also cause leaks, especially in the heater, but also to plastic piping and shell components, although it probably takes several years.

[Pathfinder]

IM not saying the blue glue is unacceptable but what I am saying is if they are using clear primer in a high volume environment where they have to move at a fast pace then its very easy to forget which tube or fitting you have primed if its clear. With novices they are given purple primer in plumbing so you know for a fact its been primed and there will be a proper bond when glued. The first place I got to manage a division was a plumbing retail and contracting store. So I learned quite a bit. If the tub is put on unlevel ground the only stress will come to the structure and the shell itself it has no bearing on the plumbing if its installed correctly.

[New NW tub owner]

If the tub is put on unlevel ground the only stress will come to the structure and the shell itself it has no bearing on the plumbing if its installed correctly.

The problem is not just with 'unlevel ground.' The problem is with structural support. The hot tub is a tank of water that is suspended over the ground. That tank of water weighs a lot and needs to be supported. On my hydrospa tub, there are little molded plastic pedestals placed around the bottom that hold up the shell. Those little pedestals need to be supported themselves. If there is support under one pedestal but not under another one, that the tub will settle at the pedestal that is not supported until either the pedestal drops onto something that can hold the weight or the shell itself is placed into tension to carry the weight and span the gap to transfer the weight to nearby pedestals that ARE supported. If this happens, the shell may deform and/or crack, leading to leaks or piping displacement. If a pedestal is sitting on a flat plank, the plank will bend until the weight is transferred to the ground beneath it. The amount of bending will be determined by how much weight, how soft the ground is, etc. The more bending, the more settling, the more bending, cracking, shifting, deformation, etc.

If you don't agree with any of this, then feel free to go build your next house on a foundation of planks laid on the mud. Have a ball.

[Pathfinder]

If you don't agree with any of this, then feel free to go build your next house on a foundation of planks laid on the mud. Have a ball.

Dumb remarks like this gives little credibility since your a pvc expert and a structural engineer. Your starting to sound like Jim

[unhappyHYDROSPAowner]

If the tub is put on unlevel ground the only stress will come to the structure and the shell itself it has no bearing on the plumbing if its installed correctly.

The problem is not just with 'unlevel ground.' The problem is with structural support. The hot tub is a tank of water that is suspended over the ground. That tank of water weighs a lot and needs to be supported. On my hydrospa tub, there are little molded plastic pedestals placed around the bottom that hold up the shell. Those little pedestals need to be supported themselves. If there is support under one pedestal but not under another one, that the tub will settle at the pedestal that is not supported until either the pedestal drops onto something that can hold the weight or the shell itself is placed into tension to carry the weight and span the gap to transfer the weight to nearby pedestals that ARE supported. If this happens, the shell may deform and/or crack, leading to leaks or piping displacement. If a pedestal is sitting on a flat plank, the plank will bend until the weight is transferred to the ground beneath it. The amount of bending will be determined by how much weight, how soft the ground is, etc. The more bending, the more settling, the more bending, cracking, shifting, deformation, etc.

If you don't agree with any of this, then feel free to go build your next house on a foundation of planks laid on the mud. Have a ball.

Pedestals?? My hydrospa has a complete thermoplastic tray underneath the tub. All of the weight is distributed evenly over thesurface of the tray.

There goes your argument!!

[New NW tub owner]

Pedestals?? My hydrospa has a complete thermoplastic tray underneath the tub. All of the weight is distributed evenly over thesurface of the tray.

There goes your argument!!

yes, the hydrospa tub has an abs plastic base. No, the weight is not distributed evenly over the surface of the tray. Your own pictures that you posted show that. yes, your tub has the same pedestals that my tub has.

[unhappyHYDROSPAowner]

Pedestals?? My hydrospa has a complete thermoplastic tray underneath the tub. All of the weight is distributed evenly over thesurface of the tray.

There goes your argument!!

yes, the hydrospa tub has an abs plastic base. No, the weight is not distributed evenly over the surface of the tray. Your own pictures that you posted show that. yes, your tub has the same pedestals that my tub has.

Well if that is the case then i still stand by my planks. They are not just some planks thrown down in the dirt. These are 12' long! 10" wide! 2" thick!! I also laid them down on levelled, tampered dirt. Once they were laid down and levelled I put 2 stringers on either end of the 12' lengths and screwed those into each piece which strengthened everything together. Once this was completed I surrounded the platform with gravel and dirt and built a berm around the platform to help with run-off. This little berm was tamped as well. (so as to glue everything in).

The guys who moved the tub into place for me said that my set-up was the next best thing they have seen next to cement. They have seen every incarnation of support including sidewalk blocks, sidewalk pavers, wooden decks, concrete, and just grass! They said that they have never seen a leak caused by the ground that a hottub was siiting on. Cracked shell? Yes (on a 15 year old tub - not hydrospa). But never a leak due to the ground the tub was on. They also said that they have seen leaks from every tub in the marketplace. Leaks just happen! But 2 so soon does scare me!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I am beginning to think that most of the 'professionals' in the hot tub business are complete technical idiots after reading the nonsense that they post here. Your comment is a good example of that. So...spa-no-tech, what does the warranty of the tubs you sell say about the support needed for the tub? Does it say, 'our tubs are half way decent so go ahead and put them on wooden planks laid on the dirt?' If it does, they obviously have not been in business very long and are not likely to be in business much longer.

BTW, poor water chemistry can also cause leaks, especially in the heater, but also to plastic piping and shell components, although it probably takes several years.

1) Wood planks are not the best idea but they will not cause a problem within the spa being a few months old and they would not cause the jets to leak. You are grasping. That spa would have leaked if it was sitting on concrete 12 feet deep.

2) BTW, water chemistry will certainly cause leaks in the heater over time but it would a VERY long time to cause leaks in the jets and it would have to be terribly bad water but her spa is very new. I knew water chemistry wasn't an issue, I was just preemptively responding before you tried to grasp on to that once you realized you plank theory was completely laughed away.

Don't try to explain her problems away as being her fault somehow just because your spa hasn't leaked yet.

With two leaks in two areas the issue is clear, POOR WORKMANSHIP. Heck, she's not the only one having such noticeable quality problems.

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...ic=7487&hl=

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...c=1117&st=0

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...ic=7415&hl=

[104 Degrees]

Does anybody think that theses(internet,Costco type) TP insulated tubs would ship better if they where Full Foam?????

John

[unhappyHYDROSPAowner]

Does anybody think that theses(internet,Costco type) TP insulated tubs would ship better if they where Full Foam?????

John

Yeah probably.

But I think the big issue with my tub was all the handling it had from Costco.

Shipped on a pallet and truck from Florida to Ontario Canada (costco's main canadian distribution). From there they may fill a truck with spas or load a truck with spas and other goods and travel across Canada to each Costco location. Then they are offloaded off the truck by some kid workin a forklift for the first time at Costco store. It is then placed in a spot inside the Costco store where it can be viewed but not in the way. (in my case it was in front of the bakery). So the tub sits on it's side all the way from the factory to the store and is then stored in the store (on it's side) until someone...i.e ME...buys it. In the meantime depending on stock levels and new goods arrival's Costco may have moved my tub 2 or 3 or more times. So once I do buy the tub it is forklifted outside to a trailer for it's destination to my house. Then you add installation handling at the end!

All of that adds up to a shyt pile of handling. That my friends, is what I think the very main issue is. And not just from Hydrospa, as I called up Pilates and Infinity and they all said that leaks are the most common issue.

One big thing about my Hydrospa, which I would say is a design flaw, is the jets in the center of the floor of the tub. Like why even have one there? On the sides ok. On the sides of the floor ok. (they can still be accessed from a side panel). But jets on the floor? That means that the tub must be at least flipped on it's side or worst case completely flipped over to fix. That is not very smart when you consider that the tub weighs over 700 pounds (dry weight) and is 7 -1/2' wide! This thing is a TANK! A bottom fix now requires 3 to 4 people versus an access panel fix only needing one. Desgin flaw for sure! IMO

[104 Degrees]

One big thing about my Hydrospa, which I would say is a design flaw, is the jets in the center of the floor of the tub. Like why even have one there?

Sundance,Jacuzzi just to name two have this. i guess people like it or it would not be there.

Jacuzzi lights theres it looked nice.

John

[unhappyHYDROSPAowner]

One big thing about my Hydrospa, which I would say is a design flaw, is the jets in the center of the floor of the tub. Like why even have one there?

Sundance,Jacuzzi just to name two have this. i guess people like it or it would not be there.

Jacuzzi lights theres it looked nice.

John

I don't care if people like it. I'll never buy another hottub like that.

P.S - latest update....this tub is gonna get returned. I'm done with it.

[104 Degrees]

One big thing about my Hydrospa, which I would say is a design flaw, is the jets in the center of the floor of the tub. Like why even have one there?

Sundance,Jacuzzi just to name two have this. i guess people like it or it would not be there.

Jacuzzi lights theres it looked nice.

John

I don't care if people like it. I'll never buy another hottub like that.

P.S - latest update....this tub is gonna get returned. I'm done with it.

Smart move.

[Roger]

Hydrospa should have never told you to put the tub on bare ground, in my opinion. If they said that, they are complete idiots.

We are making progress towards the truth.

[Pathfinder]

Ok, now the tubs going back and since you are in Canada I will suggest you look at Pacific spas. I am saying this now as too head off any later statement as to where a costco person returns a spa in Canada and then buys a Pacific and the small group think its all fake.