2007 Sundance Cameo Vs. Hotsprings Envoy

[ajmac25]

Looking at each of these tubs. Both seem to be good. Any opinions as to the better tub or better warranty/service? Any big pros or cons?

Thank you. A first time buyer in Ohio here.

[TravelingSpaGuy]

I love the Cameo as the most comfortable lounger I have ever sat in compared tot he envoys lounger im not a big fan of, but Hot Springs makes a better tub then Sundance. Make sure you get Tri-X filters if you get the HotSprings its well worth it, if you can fit the Vista its better then the Envoy as comfort level goes. I actually know a dealer in Toledo Ohio who sells Vita and I think you should check out the Cabaret but its upto you. (if you do check out Cabaret get the third pump)...talk to Ricco he is the owner and a really cool guy, he also works on VERY low margins as he concerns most his business on pool service and uses hot tubs to earn chemical business. The dealer in Cleveland sucks so if your in Cleveland go with Vista or Cameo.

[ajmac25]

What makes you say that Hotsprings is a btter tub? I like the cabinet and filters on Hotsprings, but SUndance seems to have a better tub/shell as far as thickness and durability. I have heard that the Tri-X filters do get get that clean in a dishwasher and that they never last the 10 years that the reps say they do. I live in COlumbus Ohio and we have a dealer for Sundance and Hotsprings here (not same place though). I need to fit a tub in a 8 x 8 foot spot (built into a deck) so the Cameo and the Envoy looked like great fits.

Thanks for your advice!

[TravelingSpaGuy]

Hotsprings>Sundance-better insulation (probably 15-20% less to run), better jets (hot springs gives you different types of jets in every seat compared to 2 types of jets in entire spa) I never see hot springs leak compared to sundance which I see leak all the time (I started first 5 years of spas with Sundance, I like em alot but lately so many problems). Same can be said about the MicroII filter, when it first came out they were averaging about 2 months before they broke, now I have heard they are averaging about 7-10 months not the 12 months sundance says. Most dealers charge 110 dollars for that filter and you change it more then once a year? Not to mention not one drop of the water that comes from the jets finds that filter to begin with. Hotsprings also uses a better mixing system with ozone, I have seen the sundance pillows almost evaporate within a years time when the larger cd ozone is installed because sundance doesnt mix the ozone but with the mazzai injector which every company using ozone has.

[TravelingSpaGuy]

Remember I sell everything and dont care about what you buy because I am not selling it...I have nothing to gain except trying to educate the consumer and hopefully keeping the small "value" spa guys from pretending to be real spa manufacturers

[Chris H]

Hotsprings>Sundance-better insulation (probably 15-20% less to run),

I’m not denying the Hotspring is more efficient than the Sundance, but I think you could relate the difference in cost in a few ways and it would be quite immaterial. When comparing an Envoy to the Cameo, the Cameo has a 1.5hp airblower and additional horsepower on the jet pumps. Both of which will increase the cost of ownership. Going by your numbers of 10-15%, and assuming the Envoy costs $30 bucks a month you are talking a whopping $4.50 a month. Not a big deal when everything is considered.

better jets (hot springs gives you different types of jets in every seat compared to 2 types of jets in entire spa)

I think the massage that is derived from Sundance is better. That was an opinion, was your statement an opinion? I can change the way each of the jets move water and it gives me a different massage just by moving the jet. I don’t have that flexibility with the Hotspring, and I can turn off the jets individually in the Sundance. Try doing that in the Hotspring. One more thing, Sundance utilizes more than 2 types of jets in the Cameo. I count at least 4 different types.

I never see hot springs leak compared to sundance which I see leak all the time (I started first 5 years of spas with Sundance, I like em alot but lately so many problems).

Be specific when discussing these leaks especially these recent problems. If you have no facts, don’t just spew things on web forums as that is quite inappropriate. No one else discusses these leaks, but you apparently have information that no one else has seen. I hear tons of people discussing Hotspring’s failures with their auxiliary controls and it was a known problem from Hotspring. Can I discuss that?

Same can be said about the MicroII filter, when it first came out they were averaging about 2 months before they broke, now I have heard they are averaging about 7-10 months not the 12 months sundance says. Most dealers charge 110 dollars for that filter and you change it more then once a year? Not to mention not one drop of the water that comes from the jets finds that filter to begin with.

I can say the same thing with the Tri-X filter from Hotspring. I have seen the original ones collapse and they are designed to last 5+ years. The statement that not one "drop of the water" from the jets finds that filter is false. I would recommend rephrasing that statement and doing some research on the Sundance product. Let’s put it this way, if Sundance did what you say they would not be ETL listed.

Hotsprings also uses a better mixing system with ozone, I have seen the sundance pillows almost evaporate within a years time when the larger cd ozone is installed because sundance doesnt mix the ozone but with the mazzai injector which every company using ozone has.

What makes Hotspring's sytem better? I have seen Hotspring pillows start to disintegrate in less than a year.

[ciderjack]

Sundance doesnt mix the ozone but with the mazzai injector which every company using ozone has.

Wrong.

[tony]

Sundance doesnt mix the ozone but with the mazzai injector which every company using ozone has.

Wrong.

I agree. Total misinformation here. All Sundance spas come ozone ready which includes a mixing chamber. TravelingSpaGuy, you're losing credibility here. You may sell D1 and HotSpring and show your salesmanship but when you state total inaccuracies about other brands you start to sound uniformed. You can certainly hype HotSpring without downing everyone else.

[TravelingSpaGuy]

Sundance uses a mazzai injector...no other injector but the mazzai.

I can say the same thing with the Tri-X filter from Hotspring. I have seen the original ones collapse and they are designed to last 5+ years. The statement that not one "drop of the water" from the jets finds that filter is false. I would recommend rephrasing that statement and doing some research on the Sundance product. Let’s put it this way, if Sundance did what you say they would not be ETL listed.

Sundance ONLY has the circ pump plummed to the filter, nothing else, there is a bipass below the filter to assist in top end debries getting pushed into filtration area but the water sucked into the bipass is not first sucked through the filter, no water from the filter goes through the jets would be an accurate statement.

I like Sundance, the tubs I have sold this year are as follows-

Sundance

Hot springs

D1

Jacuzzi

Catalina

Vita

Sensations

Diamante

Coleman

and

Cal Spa....I travel to different events selling different tubs. I don't benefit one dollar from this board, people who buy from me don't read this board they buy from dealers. If I was mistaken correct my mistake and tell me what I said wrong, not that I was wrong, let me know whats right, and if I research and find out something has changed I will correct myself next time.

[TravelingSpaGuy]

not to mention reflections which I am currently selling in new york right now, but will be in Utah selling Bullfrog very soon...I actually try not to mention the tubs I am currently selling so I can stay unbiased.

[ajmac25]

Thanks for all the responses. I have decided to buy the Cameo. The dealler seems to be better at answering my questions and have done more than the HotSprings dealer (who by the way sells pools, fireplaces, weight sets, barstools, etc.) Prefer someone who just sells spas. I appreciate all your help and biased.unbiased opinions. Will repost after I get my tub next month.

Thanks again!

[scchuck]

I don't think you can go wrong with the Cameo. After much research, we recently purchased the Chelsee (700 series, 4 deep seats, no lounger).

We had narrowed it down to D1, Sundance, and Hotsprings. We found our Sundance dealer to be more knowledgeable and helpful (key to long term support), the price was much (MUCH) better than Hotsprings for a similar spa and D1 didn't have anything more to offer and lacked the support. I did like the "clean your filter in the diswasher" aspect of the Hotsprings spa but I could find nothing empirical that said it filtered better (and much to suggest that it didn't do as well).

When you get the temp up to 103, have the jets running and you ease in for the first time, I think you'll be happy.

[D.P. Roberts]

Thanks for all the responses. I have decided to buy the Cameo. The dealler seems to be better at answering my questions and have done more than the HotSprings dealer (who by the way sells pools, fireplaces, weight sets, barstools, etc.) Prefer someone who just sells spas. I appreciate all your help and biased.unbiased opinions. Will repost after I get my tub next month.

Thanks again!

I assume you're talking about All Seasons Spas in Hilliard? I bought my first Sundance from them many years ago, and I'm getting my second one from them in a few weeks. They're good people. Congratulations!

[TravelingSpaGuy]

congrats, cameo does have the most comfortable lounger I have ever sat in, you should be very happy with any sundance hot springs or d1 you get so good job at getting a quality spa.

My comments were unbiased and were my honest opinion just so everyone knows, I gain nor lose anything when someone buys any tub because I am not selling the same tub week after week.

[ajmac25]

Hot SPings no longer carries Sundance. But a new dealer 1/2 mile down same street does (All Seasons Spas). They carry Jacuzzi and SUndance. They seem very helpful. Good luck.

Thanks for all the responses. I have decided to buy the Cameo. The dealler seems to be better at answering my questions and have done more than the HotSprings dealer (who by the way sells pools, fireplaces, weight sets, barstools, etc.) Prefer someone who just sells spas. I appreciate all your help and biased.unbiased opinions. Will repost after I get my tub next month.

Thanks again!

I assume you're talking about All Seasons Spas in Hilliard? I bought my first Sundance from them many years ago, and I'm getting my second one from them in a few weeks. They're good people. Congratulations!

[ajmac25]

Boy, I was tired when I replied to you this AM. Yes, All Seasons does carry SunDance. Scioto Valley did carry them but no more. Any problems with All Seasons? How have they been to deal with as far as service?

Thanks!!

Thanks for all the responses. I have decided to buy the Cameo. The dealler seems to be better at answering my questions and have done more than the HotSprings dealer (who by the way sells pools, fireplaces, weight sets, barstools, etc.) Prefer someone who just sells spas. I appreciate all your help and biased.unbiased opinions. Will repost after I get my tub next month.

Thanks again!

I assume you're talking about All Seasons Spas in Hilliard? I bought my first Sundance from them many years ago, and I'm getting my second one from them in a few weeks. They're good people. Congratulations!

[D.P. Roberts]

Boy, I was tired when I replied to you this AM. Yes, All Seasons does carry SunDance. Scioto Valley did carry them but no more. Any problems with All Seasons? How have they been to deal with as far as service?

Thanks!!

AFAIK, All Seasons has been around and carrying Sundance for over a decade. They just moved into a new building a year or two ago. I bought my old tub from them in Jan. 2000, at their old location. Fortunately, I can't comment on their service, since I never needed any service on that spa. They were always helpful with questions, chemicals, etc.

Scioto Valley, again AFAIK, has been carrying Hot Spring & Cal Spas in their current location for just as long.

[104 Degrees]

not to mention reflections which I am currently selling in new york right now, but will be in Utah selling Bullfrog very soon...I actually try not to mention the tubs I am currently selling so I can stay unbiased.

TSG

Whats your view on bullfrog.

Thank you John

[TravelingSpaGuy]

one of my best friends is a rep for bullfrog and my realator who I brought into the spa business owns a bullfrog dealership and both love it, from synthetic framing to jet packs ect ect they say it also never breaks down. I will goto the factory in two weeks so will see more then but right now I think its probably a good model. It seems like a very moral company due to its strong mormon ownership. But we will see more soon.

[TravelingSpaGuy]

one of my best friends is a rep for bullfrog and my realator who I brought into the spa business owns a bullfrog dealership and both love it, from synthetic framing to jet packs ect ect they say it also never breaks down. I will goto the factory in two weeks so will see more then but right now I think its probably a good model. It seems like a very moral company due to its strong mormon ownership. But we will see more soon.

[104 Degrees]

one of my best friends is a rep for bullfrog and my realator who I brought into the spa business owns a bullfrog dealership and both love it, from synthetic framing to jet packs ect ect they say it also never breaks down. I will goto the factory in two weeks so will see more then but right now I think its probably a good model. It seems like a very moral company due to its strong mormon ownership. But we will see more soon.

Thanks TSG

[jmo]

one of my best friends is a rep for bullfrog and my realator who I brought into the spa business owns a bullfrog dealership and both love it, from synthetic framing to jet packs ect ect they say it also never breaks down. I will goto the factory in two weeks so will see more then but right now I think its probably a good model. It seems like a very moral company due to its strong mormon ownership. But we will see more soon.

Travel Spa Guy,

Where you able to visit your friend's Bullfrog factory?

It's now October, what's your opinion on Bullfrog products

Thanks, jmo