Rick B Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Hi All. We have an Arctic Frontier Spa Ultra model and have had a few electrical occurrences in the past 2 weeks we have had it. I was hoping that maybe someone out there may have had a similar problem and/or could offer some advice. To give the background… When we bought the spa I was told I needed a 50 Amp GFI breaker installed more than 5, but less than 15 feet from the tub. I have 25 feet of #6 wire run from a 50 amp circuit in the main panel to the sub panel that has a 50 amp GFI breaker in it. This sub panel is mounted to the outside of the house and was bought at Home Depot as a kit from Cutler Hammer. From that point I have another 25 feet of #6 wire running from the sub panel to the tub ( left about 15 feet of wire coiled up in flexible conduit in case I need to move the tub for service). After the tub ran for about 2 days, we had some rain and the breaker tripped while we were in the tub. Since the first time this happened it was raining, I thought the GFI tripped and rechecked all my connections on the next dry day. The breaker has tripped every day or so since (for the last week), even in dry weather, so I borrowed an ammeter from work and found that with all three pumps on, the spa is drawing 52 amps. (so the breaker is tripping since it is overloaded, not faulting to ground). The plate on the side of the tub has a maximum amperage rating of 44 amps, so…. My question is…. Does it look like there may be a problem with a motor or other component inside the tub that could cause a higher amperage draw? My dealer is looking into this for me as well, but thought someone on the forum may be able to provide some advice. Other than the annoying electric problem, we LOVE the spa… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Hi All. We have an Arctic Frontier Spa Ultra model and have had a few electrical occurrences in the past 2 weeks we have had it. I was hoping that maybe someone out there may have had a similar problem and/or could offer some advice. To give the background… When we bought the spa I was told I needed a 50 Amp GFI breaker installed more than 5, but less than 15 feet from the tub. I have 25 feet of #6 wire run from a 50 amp circuit in the main panel to the sub panel that has a 50 amp GFI breaker in it. This sub panel is mounted to the outside of the house and was bought at Home Depot as a kit from Cutler Hammer. From that point I have another 25 feet of #6 wire running from the sub panel to the tub ( left about 15 feet of wire coiled up in flexible conduit in case I need to move the tub for service). After the tub ran for about 2 days, we had some rain and the breaker tripped while we were in the tub. Since the first time this happened it was raining, I thought the GFI tripped and rechecked all my connections on the next dry day. The breaker has tripped every day or so since (for the last week), even in dry weather, so I borrowed an ammeter from work and found that with all three pumps on, the spa is drawing 52 amps. (so the breaker is tripping since it is overloaded, not faulting to ground). The plate on the side of the tub has a maximum amperage rating of 44 amps, so…. My question is…. Does it look like there may be a problem with a motor or other component inside the tub that could cause a higher amperage draw? My dealer is looking into this for me as well, but thought someone on the forum may be able to provide some advice. Other than the annoying electric problem, we LOVE the spa… I would start by unplugging the number 3 pump and running the spa for a day or 2 to see if the breaker trips. Then move to number 2 and do the same and then #1 If you rule those out try the ozonater if you have one and air blower. Plug each component back in if the problem persists and move to the next, if you problem goes away the unplugger component is the suspect. If it doesn't you may have a board problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New NW tub owner Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Hi All. We have an Arctic Frontier Spa Ultra model and have had a few electrical occurrences in the past 2 weeks we have had it. I was hoping that maybe someone out there may have had a similar problem and/or could offer some advice. To give the background… When we bought the spa I was told I needed a 50 Amp GFI breaker installed more than 5, but less than 15 feet from the tub. I have 25 feet of #6 wire run from a 50 amp circuit in the main panel to the sub panel that has a 50 amp GFI breaker in it. This sub panel is mounted to the outside of the house and was bought at Home Depot as a kit from Cutler Hammer. From that point I have another 25 feet of #6 wire running from the sub panel to the tub ( left about 15 feet of wire coiled up in flexible conduit in case I need to move the tub for service). After the tub ran for about 2 days, we had some rain and the breaker tripped while we were in the tub. Since the first time this happened it was raining, I thought the GFI tripped and rechecked all my connections on the next dry day. The breaker has tripped every day or so since (for the last week), even in dry weather, so I borrowed an ammeter from work and found that with all three pumps on, the spa is drawing 52 amps. (so the breaker is tripping since it is overloaded, not faulting to ground). The plate on the side of the tub has a maximum amperage rating of 44 amps, so…. My question is…. Does it look like there may be a problem with a motor or other component inside the tub that could cause a higher amperage draw? My dealer is looking into this for me as well, but thought someone on the forum may be able to provide some advice. Other than the annoying electric problem, we LOVE the spa… It's possible that one of the pumps has an unusually high current draw due to a defect in the winding but that's not real likely. More likely is that that voltage drop in your setup is excessive causing an excessive amp draw. Are you using copper wire rather than aluminum? The voltage drop through the aluminum wire will be higher so if you used aluminum so save money, rip it out and put in copper. Also, look at every connection. If you're going to suck 50 amps down #6 wires, every connection has to be first rate. That means the wire bared properly, the connectors installed properly, and the connectors torqued to the proper setting. Just one bad connection will have a high resistance leading to excessive voltage drop to your motors which will then overamp. And, of course, if you are using aluminum wire, the connectors have to absolutely be rated for AL-CU and not just CU or they will fail. Finally, look at the length of your conductors. You are a little casual in your distances (such as where you say 'left about 15 feet of wire coiled up in flexible conduit') and distance matters a lot when you're loading #6 up to its max. Do everything possible to shorten the conductor length and that will reduce the voltage drop and therefore the current draw in your motors. If none of this helps, your only option is to take out the #6 and put in #4 with a 60-amp breaker which is probably a good idea anyway given your amp s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Hi All. We have an Arctic Frontier Spa Ultra model... I was told I needed a 50 Amp GFI breaker ... The plate on the side of the tub has a maximum amperage rating of 44 amps, so…. [/quote I'm glad you have your dealer involved. In the meantime our tech support guy suggests that you: 1. Verify the 52A draw, perhaps using another meter 2. Unplug the heater and see if the tripping stops (Roger said this already; but we suspect that the heater may not be cutting out when the motors run, so start there. If so, this would indicate a board problem) 3. Determine that the GFCI you purchased has a noise filter to prevent nuisance tripping. If not, and all other tests are negative, consider replacing your GFCI with one which has such a filter. We recommend Siemens. we LOVE the spa… Thank you. I really appreciate hearing that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick B Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 It's possible that one of the pumps has an unusually high current draw due to a defect in the winding but that's not real likely. More likely is that that voltage drop in your setup is excessive causing an excessive amp draw. Are you using copper wire rather than aluminum? The voltage drop through the aluminum wire will be higher so if you used aluminum so save money, rip it out and put in copper. Also, look at every connection. If you're going to suck 50 amps down #6 wires, every connection has to be first rate. That means the wire bared properly, the connectors installed properly, and the connectors torqued to the proper setting. Just one bad connection will have a high resistance leading to excessive voltage drop to your motors which will then overamp. And, of course, if you are using aluminum wire, the connectors have to absolutely be rated for AL-CU and not just CU or they will fail. Finally, look at the length of your conductors. You are a little casual in your distances (such as where you say 'left about 15 feet of wire coiled up in flexible conduit') and distance matters a lot when you're loading #6 up to its max. Do everything possible to shorten the conductor length and that will reduce the voltage drop and therefore the current draw in your motors. If none of this helps, your only option is to take out the #6 and put in #4 with a 60-amp breaker which is probably a good idea anyway given your amp s. Thanks for all the advice. It is truly appreciated. Wire is all copper (I would not consider aluminum) I was thinking along the same lines as you with connections, and did verify them all again as a first step…. Removed, re-stripped, and re-torqued them all. I have not shortened the length of the wire, since I did not think 50 feet total was too unreasonable (even with 50 Amp & #6 wire. Once again, I appreciate your time and information. Thanks for all the troubleshooting steps Tom & Roger. I will be sure to update this post when we figure out what is going on… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick B Posted May 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Hey Guys. Thanks for all the tips on this, but it turns out that it was my bad about how many amps were being drawn. I was measuring the amps on each hot lead of the 240 circuit, and then adding them together, thinking that would give me the total amps being drawn. After having an electrician out to take readings (and explain them to me), I now realize that you do not add the amps from each leg up, but count each leg once for the total amperage drawn on that circuit… So in all, it looks like I am drawing 26 amps at peak usage (not bad since the spa is rated for 44 amps) and my issue with tripping the breaker must be a GFI issue. I am going to get a new breaker and if that does not trip, chalk it up to a faulty breaker. If that also trips, then I will get my dealer involved again and see if any of the spa components could be faulty. Thanks again for your help, and sorry to take up your time on what turned out to be a non-issue. Tom, since you liked it the first time… We still LOVE the spa!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 A bad GFCI is so rare that we often overlook the possibility of it being problem. If your a spa store you blame electrical first. If your an electrician you blame the spa. If your a consumer, you just want to soak!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick B Posted May 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 Hey Roger… So right you are… I believe I have narrowed my problem down to the heater. I was able to duplicate the problem and troubleshoot by doing this… I ran the “boost filter cycle” today, as the water was a little cloudy from being used all weekend. About 5 minutes into the cycle, the breaker kicked off. Since I was right there, I immediately went over and turned the breaker back on, and it tripped immediately. It tripped on me immediately about 5 times in the next minute, so I took the panel off the spa and started unplugging component, and seeing if the breaker would stay on. After unplugging pump 1, 2, and the blower, the breaker still tripped when I turned it on. I then unplugged the heater, and the breaker stayed on. So, I plugged everything back in to the board, and the breaker tripped when I turned it on. Then I unplugged the heater, and the breaker stays on. I tried the breaker with the heater plugged/unplugged three more times, and it tripped every time the heater was plugged in, but not when unplugged. I plan to call the dealer tomorrow, but it looks like the heater is causing a ground fault. I just wanted to follow up on this for all of you that provided help. Thanks again, and I will let you know if anything else pops up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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