Permits Necessary For Installing Spa?

[n1oty]

Oh, and I just connected the dots are realized you are the OP in the "60 amp" posting. Already, your "electrician" is making me nervous.

John

[ht2020]

OK, so I went against my better judgment and actually decided that I would go through with the permit process (as a civic experiment). I went down to the Los Angeles Dept of Building and Safety about half an hour before they opened and waited outside. I was the first person through the door and received a ticket stub that read "001". Nonetheless, I still waited about 40 minutes before I was called. I was interviewed by someone who told me that my hot tub is actually regarded as a full fledged pool and I would have to go back home and prepare a "plan". I didn't go back home but simply went to another part of the building and prepared the "plan" (basically a schematic of my house with an illustration of the hot tub in the back yard). I then went back and was told to draw another number ("007") and cooled my heels for another hour. I was then sent back to the same man who told me that to approve my plan I had to pay a plan approval fee of $185. I was sent to a cashier counter where I waited for 20 minutes and paid. I was then sent back the same man and was now asked how much my entire project would cost including the cost of the hot tub. I told him that the hot tub would cost $8000 and the labor to install electrical and concrete pad would cost $2000. He sent me right back to the cashier where I paid a permit fee of $380. Thus far, I have paid $565. A few days later an inspector appeared at my house for a "pre-site inspection". At this time he told me that some mistake had been made by his colleagues back at the office because there was no reason for him to be there ie: he thought that the work had already been completed and didn't understand why he was sent there simply to see a backyard. He acted quite annoyed and told me to call him back when the electrical trench had been dug. He didn't give a damn about the concrete pad or whether or not the hot tub would actually be there on the day that he came back. This means that my electrician will have to come back another day to fill the trench and complete the connection to the spa (probably another charge for me since he now needs to extend the project). In the meanwhile I need to go around my "enclosure" and make sure that everything else will pass the inspection. So far I'm out about $800, lost a half day at the LABSD, another half day waiting for the inspector and will lose yet another half day when he returns. For those who contemplate pulling a permit for this, be warned.

[Dnepr Dave]

And they wonder why many of us just do it ourselves, without permits.

Dave

[n1oty]

I feel your pain. I just had a roofing contractor in this week to put a new roof on my house. The city permit fee alone was $700, but I have the paperwork which lets me formally update my home owners insurance to reflect the new roof (they do track that). Meanwhile, a friend up the street re-roofed without a permit and is having trouble getting his insurance company to reflect the new roof on his policy.

I had no problem with the permitting process or its aftermath (other than the exorbitant cost). Frankly, the operation that you just described sounds more like keystone cops than professional building inspectors. I think California must be in its own bizarre world.

Any headway with your electrician???

John

[ht2020]

I forgot to mention that I had to go and do this permit myself because if I had had the electrician go and waste his day there he would have charged me a lot more. However, I realized once I got there that there is a problem when you do it myself. They made me sign a form in which it very clearly stated that I am the "Owner-Contractor" on this project and that if there is ever a problem I am the one that is ultimately liable. The form had about 10 lines in which I had to initial each line eg: "You certify that you understand that you are legally responsible for any loss of life, limb etc resulting from this project....". What this means is that even though I used a certified electrician, pulled a permit and did this "to code", it is I who will be sued if any mishap occurs. I think that people need to keep this in mind in case they think the buck stops with the person who did the work...it does not, it stops with you.

[Dr. Spa]

Keep in mind as well, that every state, county, city and municipality has their own requirements for permits. In California, there's a law that allows home owners to act as their own general contractor (and if you subcontract out aspects of the job, most cities require you to use a licensed contractor, which would then be liable for any work they do). Some cities, it's a simple over the counter $20 permit, with just an electrical inspection (because you buried your wiring an inspection of the trench was required to verify proper depth). Other cities require a use permit, which has to be approved and signed off by all adjacent neighbors.

[Spa_Guru]

All of the trouble you are going thru to properly permit your install is the fraction of the cost of a lawsuit that wouldn't be covered by your homeowner's insurance due to an accident occurring with an illegal install.... even if the spa was installed properly to code.

Not to mention, if you ever sell the home and you cannot show proper paperwork for the improvements, you may be required to remove the entire apparatus before you can sell it, and get fined as well for any code violations the install may have.

[Dnepr Dave]

All of the trouble you are going thru to properly permit your install is the fraction of the cost of a lawsuit that wouldn't be covered by your homeowner's insurance due to an accident occurring with an illegal install.... even if the spa was installed properly to code.

Not to mention, if you ever sell the home and you cannot show proper paperwork for the improvements, you may be required to remove the entire apparatus before you can sell it, and get fined as well for any code violations the install may have.

But probably not.

Dave

[Spa_Guru]

All of the trouble you are going thru to properly permit your install is the fraction of the cost of a lawsuit that wouldn't be covered by your homeowner's insurance due to an accident occurring with an illegal install.... even if the spa was installed properly to code.

Not to mention, if you ever sell the home and you cannot show proper paperwork for the improvements, you may be required to remove the entire apparatus before you can sell it, and get fined as well for any code violations the install may have.

But probably not.

Dave

Right, so the question is, do you feel lucky?

[ht2020]

Update on the permit. The permit itself cost me $590. They're making me move both my gate latches another 4 inches higher up because the requirements changed from 56 inches to 60 inches above ground. Furthermore, they didn't like the way my gate doesn't swing shut by itself so I'm being asked to install new hinges. The gate work will cost me $150. I have also had to purchase an alarm for my french doors that lead outside ($40). I had to have the electricians dig the trench and then leave it for inspection (so they charged me $200 more to come back another day). During the inspection I was told that i needed an additional 110V GFCI outlet near the hot tub. My electrician claims that he will need to dig a separate 10 foot trench for this since the outlet should not be anywhere near the water. He wants to charge another $500. Keep in mind that this is a 230V tub and there is absolutely no reason to have a 110V outlet adjacent to it. As of now I have paid him an additional $100 simply to run the extra 110V wire and am wondering what to do next (subject of a separate post).

I appreciate spa guru's observation about law suits, liability etc etc BUT make sure you know what you're getting into before pulling a permit. In addition to the extra costs I have had to take out time to have a pre-inspection, a trench inspection and a post-inspection (and that's assuming that I pass the post-inspection).

[Dr. Spa]

The reason for the outlet is to assure that there's a GFI outlet near the spa, so you don't run a 50' extension cord from a non-GFCI outlet and plug in a radio that's sitting on the edge of the spa..........which could fall into the water electrocuting all the occupants.

[Spoiledrotten]

I'm intending on installing a Hot Springs spa in my backyard and thought that I would check on the neccessity of acquiring a permit. I live in West Los Angeles and called the local building and safety office to make inquiries. I got the distinct impression that getting a permit would be quite cumbersome. The inspector I spoke to sounded very officious and was lecturing me on a self-locking cover, a 5 foot enclosure around the spa etc. I then asked what if I wanted to semi-vault the spa (ie: about 20 inches) and he said that the vaulting would have to be inspected before the spa was put into it etc. Do people actually go through all of this or is this routinely ignored? I spoke to an installer who does vaulting and he told me that he would charge me an extra $1000 to pull the permit and deal with all the issues relating to it. I prefer to do things above board but this sounds like a big fuss and a potential headache.

That's government's way of getting more revenue out of the hard working taxpayers. Government RED TAPE! Don't ask-don't tell.