Spas Not To Buy

[Rika]

I'm not a dealer.

I recently went through the same search you are going through.

You are trying to narrow down the brands you look at since you don't have the time to go try them all.

You really are asking a hard question. The "Dealers" here for the most part will try not to bash one anothers brands but the advice they give really is the best way decide on a brand that fits you. For a "Non Dealer" it is psychologically difficult for someone to admit they bought the wrong tub. Even if after owning it for a year they don't use it because it is not as comfortable as they initially thought or pumps or jets break it is easier to write that off as bad luck than to admit to yourself that you got ripped off. So how do you get info to narrow down your search?

In my area there are a lot of different brands.

I started with the better business bureau to see how the dealers were. If you see a lot of problems that were not addressed by the dealer then I would eliminate that dealer and therefore the brands he/she sells from your list. D1 and Hotsprings may be a good brand but if the dealer in your area is a rip off artist you don't want to buy from them.

Spend a few weekends going around looking at the ones still on your list. Don't wet test at this point. You just want to see what the different sizes are, how many jets they have, how many pumps and the size of the pumps what the different seating arangements are and how much they cost. How easy is it to get the filters out? Ignore tv's and radios as others have pointed out for the $1000 or more they charge to add a tv you can buy a lot of 19 inch tv's or boom boxes at best buy. Light packages are optional. We usually leave the lights off in ours.

If you want lights they will look better with a light colored shell. Pick the shell color last.

Make sure to ask what is included. One dealer could be selling the same brand as another for less but then when you buy you find out the steps, cover and cover lifter are not included. These are "Options" that are really neccesities so make sure you include them in your comparisons. Ozone is usually included as well. Whether or not it is required I don't know. I still use clorine as a sanitizer and figure the ozone justs helps a bit more.

You also want to get info on lounger versions as well as non lounger. You won't really know until you wet test if you like the lounger or not so get the details on both.

Once you are done with this comparison you should be able to narrow it down a little based on value. And how you felt with the dealer. If you got the feeling they were slimy and they bashed other brands more than they sold you on theirs this might go into your calculations somewhere. You want to figure out which dealers seem to have the best deals on "Comparable" tubs. You decide what is comparable for you. Pick your top three and schedule a wet test at each of them. Plan on spending at least 20 minutes in both a lounger and non lounger version at each dealer. You will want to familiarize yourself with the controls. Are they easy or complicated? Sit in each seat in the tubs for a while to see if it is comfortable. Does the placement of the jets allow you to hit many different sore spots? Do the jets feel good or are they making you itch because they don't move? How does the pressure feel? Is there enough pressure in the jets? or too much? is it adjustable? Do you sit in a comfortable position? Is there shoulder room? In one I tried the corners were too rounded and I felt like my shoulders were folding into my chest. Is there enough leg room for the number of people who should be able to get into it. Are there seats for 8 but only leg room for 4? At this point you can decide if you love or hate loungers. I found one I liked but felt it cut up the area in the tub and made it hard to move around.

You can tell from this why everyone tells you to wet test.

This is not a lawn mower you are buying it is a piece of furniture which needs to be comfortable and what is comfortable for one person may not be for another. Dont buy one from Home depot or Sams club where you can not test it. Also don't buy one without wet testing more than one so you can know you got the best one for you.

After doing all this evaluation and testing you should have enough info to feel like you can make a decision.

[Roger]

I'm not a dealer.

I recently went through the same search you are going through.

You are trying to narrow down the brands you look at since you don't have the time to go try them all.

You really are asking a hard question. The "Dealers" here for the most part will try not to bash one anothers brands but the advice they give really is the best way decide on a brand that fits you. For a "Non Dealer" it is psychologically difficult for someone to admit they bought the wrong tub. Even if after owning it for a year they don't use it because it is not as comfortable as they initially thought or pumps or jets break it is easier to write that off as bad luck than to admit to yourself that you got ripped off. So how do you get info to narrow down your search?

In my area there are a lot of different brands.

I started with the better business bureau to see how the dealers were. If you see a lot of problems that were not addressed by the dealer then I would eliminate that dealer and therefore the brands he/she sells from your list. D1 and Hotsprings may be a good brand but if the dealer in your area is a rip off artist you don't want to buy from them.

Spend a few weekends going around looking at the ones still on your list. Don't wet test at this point. You just want to see what the different sizes are, how many jets they have, how many pumps and the size of the pumps what the different seating arangements are and how much they cost. How easy is it to get the filters out? Ignore tv's and radios as others have pointed out for the $1000 or more they charge to add a tv you can buy a lot of 19 inch tv's or boom boxes at best buy. Light packages are optional. We usually leave the lights off in ours.

If you want lights they will look better with a light colored shell. Pick the shell color last.

Make sure to ask what is included. One dealer could be selling the same brand as another for less but then when you buy you find out the steps, cover and cover lifter are not included. These are "Options" that are really neccesities so make sure you include them in your comparisons. Ozone is usually included as well. Whether or not it is required I don't know. I still use clorine as a sanitizer and figure the ozone justs helps a bit more.

You also want to get info on lounger versions as well as non lounger. You won't really know until you wet test if you like the lounger or not so get the details on both.

Once you are done with this comparison you should be able to narrow it down a little based on value. And how you felt with the dealer. If you got the feeling they were slimy and they bashed other brands more than they sold you on theirs this might go into your calculations somewhere. You want to figure out which dealers seem to have the best deals on "Comparable" tubs. You decide what is comparable for you. Pick your top three and schedule a wet test at each of them. Plan on spending at least 20 minutes in both a lounger and non lounger version at each dealer. You will want to familiarize yourself with the controls. Are they easy or complicated? Sit in each seat in the tubs for a while to see if it is comfortable. Does the placement of the jets allow you to hit many different sore spots? Do the jets feel good or are they making you itch because they don't move? How does the pressure feel? Is there enough pressure in the jets? or too much? is it adjustable? Do you sit in a comfortable position? Is there shoulder room? In one I tried the corners were too rounded and I felt like my shoulders were folding into my chest. Is there enough leg room for the number of people who should be able to get into it. Are there seats for 8 but only leg room for 4? At this point you can decide if you love or hate loungers. I found one I liked but felt it cut up the area in the tub and made it hard to move around.

You can tell from this why everyone tells you to wet test.

This is not a lawn mower you are buying it is a piece of furniture which needs to be comfortable and what is comfortable for one person may not be for another. Dont buy one from Home depot or Sams club where you can not test it. Also don't buy one without wet testing more than one so you can know you got the best one for you.

After doing all this evaluation and testing you should have enough info to feel like you can make a decision.

Well put, I would add take notes at each dealer as you will forget alot that is said at one when you talk to another. During your wet test....listen, how loud, how quiet. Take notes when you get to your car.

[craighaggart]

I'm wondering if any of the experts who post here are willing to go "out on a limb" and name some companies that I shouldn't even consider

I'm neither dealer nor expert, but I'd be happy to share my newbie opinion with you. I've heard so much bad news about Cal Spas (from neighbors who have owned them and from people posting on web forums) that I would never consider one. There are just too many alternatives to bother dealing with a spa company with such a blemished reputation.

Also, as much as I have been tempted to buy a spa unseen over the web, I have decided that it's simply far too much of a gamble. As my wife and I discovered while furniture shopping: There are plenty of great couches being sold at very good prices, but if it isn't comfortable what's the point? Comfort is EXTREMELY subjective, in furniture and spas. That's why everyone says how important it is to "wet test" spas you're interested in. The ones I've tried have indeed felt different.

Of course, to "wet test" you need to be near lots of dealers who also carry lots of spas filled with water. Even though I live in one of the most populous metropolitan areas in a very spa-oriented state, I've had little luck myself. The major players all have dealers close to me, but they all keep only one or two spas in their showrooms with water in them. "Try this one; it's almost the same as the one you're interested in!" they say. Yeah, "almost" -- as in almost twice as large, with almost the same jets, and almost the same number of pumps... I'd call it "almost helpful."

Anyway, good luck, and please let us know what you learn, too!

-Craig Haggart

Sunnyvale, California

[Roger]

Of course, to "wet test" you need to be near lots of dealers who also carry lots of spas filled with water. Even though I live in one of the most populous metropolitan areas in a very spa-oriented state, I've had little luck myself. The major players all have dealers close to me, but they all keep only one or two spas in their showrooms with water in them. "Try this one; it's almost the same as the one you're interested in!" they say. Yeah, "almost" -- as in almost twice as large, with almost the same jets, and almost the same number of pumps... I'd call it "almost helpful."

If you are serious about a purchase of a particular model and the dealer knows it. A good way to gauge the dealer would be how he accomidates your request to fill.

[Canadian Kahuna]

If your dealer only has a few certain models with water available for wet test and you are interested in a model they don't have filled, ask them if they can fill it so you can wet test. I think that's what Roger just said. My dealer did not have my particular model filled, but several similar ones, and told me to stop by and try them out. I asked "what if i wanted to try out a different model". He said if i was seriously interested (dealers do get a lot of people who are "just looking") then it wouldn't be a problem to fill it. This shows a dealer who is willing to make sure a customer is happy. Besides, it's not that hard for them to fill up a tub.

[craighaggart]

If ... you are interested in a model they don't have filled, ask them if they can fill it so you can wet test.

Thanks for the advice, Roger and Kahuna! It never occurred to me to ask this before, and none of the dealers offered -- until today, that is. I just had a nice experience at the local Artesian dealer this afternoon. He did not stock the tub I'm interested in (the Ruby), but after a few minutes of discussion, he offered to get one and fill it so I can try it out. I made it clear that I was not in any way committing to buy it; he said it wasn't a problem but he did ask that I at least NOT buy someone else's tub until it comes in and I can try it. Fair enough. The people at Sundance, Hot Spring, Caldera, Marquis, and D1 did not even hint that it might be possible to try the actual tub I wanted. The spas I wet-tested at Caldera and Sundance were, according to the dealers, "almost the same."

To make this more relevant to the actual thread topic, I would have to say that this experience with Artesian, although admittedly limited, definitely keeps them ON my own list of spas to consider. To tell the truth, they weren't really even on my radar before, but today's experience has certainly moved them up to an even footing with the others I have been considering.

-Craig Haggart

Sunnyvale, California

[Rika]

One more thing.

Ask for a written copy of their warrantee and do a item by item compare.

They should be able to provide this and it can give you an idea or what they cover.

Most will say they have a long warrantee but some prorate things differently.

[Roger]

Thanks for the advice, Roger and Kahuna! It never occurred to me to ask this before, and none of the dealers offered -- until today, that is. I just had a nice experience at the local Artesian dealer this afternoon. He did not stock the tub I'm interested in (the Ruby), but after a few minutes of discussion, he offered to get one and fill it so I can try it out.

We have a dealer here that uses the same water and just moves it from tub to tub with a big ole pump that moves 300 gallons in about 10 minutes. Already warm and sanitized. But you have to be serious.

[Trigger]

We have a dealer here that uses the same water and just moves it from tub to tub with a big ole pump that moves 300 gallons in about 10 minutes. Already warm and sanitized. But you have to be serious.

Are there any health laws regulating hot tub dealers and tub water?

[Roger]

Are there any health laws regulating hot tub dealers and tub water?

Maybe someone else can answer this better but if I was a dealer I would make them sign an indemnity agreement. Then it would not matter. Bath at your own risk. If anyone can keep water sanitized it should be a dealer.

[makailey1]

Just looking for some recommended "do not buy" spa's. It looks like Gulf Coast Spa was one mentioned by another poster.

I'm in Richmond, VA. I know of these:

Local Manufactured Tubs:

Hawkeye Mfg. or Hottubs Direct (if you look on ebay).

Local Dealers for:

Vita Spa (made in FL)

Leisure Spa (Req-Whse)

Caldera

Beachcomber

Master Spa

Thermospa (they say they're everywhere)

D1

Coleman

Costco Brand (Elite?)

Sears (?)

Home Depot (?)

I purchased a beachcomber 750 six weeks ago, and we just love this tub.. Very comfortable and good for the kids.

good luck

[kevincheek]

We just purchased and LA spa after months of looking. It hasnt been delivered yet but it was in our price range and the wet test was wonderful. We cant wait. only 2 weeks to go.

kevincheek@juno.comHow is the LA spa, love to know how you made out, looking to buy one too

[Brulan1]

kevincheek@juno.comHow is the LA spa, love to know how you made out, looking to buy one too

At the aqua show, that was the only other spa besides Elite and Coleman that I would consider carrying. LA spas make a very nice spa and is very compfortable. I also like how it was so quiet considering how it was built. Congrats on your new spa, nice decision

[soreback]

WARNING BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING A SPA FROM WEST CHESTER SPAS IN WEST CHESTER PA.

We placed a deposit of $4200.00 on an LSX1050 Master Spa at a spa show at the Valley Forge Convention Center held by West Chester Spas. This was a new 2006 model with no extras added just the base unit new from the factory. The salesperson explained the many jets and features of the unit including the shoulder jet seats. It seamed like the perfect spa for us being we both have issues with our shoulder muscles since being involved in a serious auto accident several months ago. Although the salesman never asked us to get into the unit to see if we were comfortable in the shoulder jet seats, he did say that there was a male and a female sized shoulder jet seat, so we figured they should be fine.

1 week later at a home show we saw another dealer of the same products and decided to see if the prices were similar between dealers (this dealer was over 50 miles away from our home). After some brief conversation the first thing this sales rep asked us to do was to sit in the different spas to see how nice they felt and fit. We realized the shoulder jets of the LSX1050 on the male seat did not fit my shoulders as my shoulders would only fit if I slid my butt all they way out to the edge of the seat. I am 6’ 220 but a long upper torso. We did get a price from this dealer on the LSX1050 and found the price very close to one we already had.

I contacted West Chester Spas and asked to take a wet test of the unit I placed a deposit on to make sure it was the same wet as dry. The next day I did so and found that I did not fit under the shoulder jets. The following day I contacted the owner Larry Granger and told him the problem.

He is where the problem starts. I was told he would not refund my whole deposit. He said he had already paid a $1600.00 commission on the sale and I had to take a store credit for that amount. If I agreed to take a store credit for the $1600.00 then he would credit my credit card for the balance of the $4200.00 deposit. If I did not agree, he would not credit my credit card for anything and I would be on my own to the fight to get my deposit back.

I can’t believe that the owner would not be able to recover a sales commission from his employee since the spa was never delivered. I also can’t believe that he would offer a $1600.00 store credit if he could not recover the sales commission. If my math is correct this would cost him the $1600.00 commission plus the value of the goods I purchased unless he would be able to recover the sales commission but just didn’t want to lose a sale. If this all seams strange to you, it certainly is confusing to the credit card company that I am disputing the charge with. Do you think this is someone who is interested in customer satisfaction or just his bottom line, you decide!

[Larry]

WARNING BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING A SPA FROM WEST CHESTER SPAS IN WEST CHESTER PA.

We placed a deposit of $4200.00 on an LSX1050 Master Spa at a spa show at the Valley Forge Convention Center held by West Chester Spas. This was a new 2006 model with no extras added just the base unit new from the factory. The salesperson explained the many jets and features of the unit including the shoulder jet seats. It seamed like the perfect spa for us being we both have issues with our shoulder muscles since being involved in a serious auto accident several months ago. Although the salesman never asked us to get into the unit to see if we were comfortable in the shoulder jet seats, he did say that there was a male and a female sized shoulder jet seat, so we figured they should be fine.

1 week later at a home show we saw another dealer of the same products and decided to see if the prices were similar between dealers (this dealer was over 50 miles away from our home). After some brief conversation the first thing this sales rep asked us to do was to sit in the different spas to see how nice they felt and fit. We realized the shoulder jets of the LSX1050 on the male seat did not fit my shoulders as my shoulders would only fit if I slid my butt all they way out to the edge of the seat. I am 6’ 220 but a long upper torso. We did get a price from this dealer on the LSX1050 and found the price very close to one we already had.

I contacted West Chester Spas and asked to take a wet test of the unit I placed a deposit on to make sure it was the same wet as dry. The next day I did so and found that I did not fit under the shoulder jets. The following day I contacted the owner Larry Granger and told him the problem.

He is where the problem starts. I was told he would not refund my whole deposit. He said he had already paid a $1600.00 commission on the sale and I had to take a store credit for that amount. If I agreed to take a store credit for the $1600.00 then he would credit my credit card for the balance of the $4200.00 deposit. If I did not agree, he would not credit my credit card for anything and I would be on my own to the fight to get my deposit back.

I can’t believe that the owner would not be able to recover a sales commission from his employee since the spa was never delivered. I also can’t believe that he would offer a $1600.00 store credit if he could not recover the sales commission. If my math is correct this would cost him the $1600.00 commission plus the value of the goods I purchased unless he would be able to recover the sales commission but just didn’t want to lose a sale. If this all seams strange to you, it certainly is confusing to the credit card company that I am disputing the charge with. Do you think this is someone who is interested in customer satisfaction or just his bottom line, you decide!

Soreback purchased a spa from us at a spa show and he subsequently decided that he did not want to follow through with his purchase and he wanted his deposit back. The request to have his deposit refunded was made over a week after he purchased his spa. The front of contract above the sale total clearly states that “All Sales are Final – No Returns – Deposits are Not Refundable”. The back of the contract restates this. Soreback did not come into the store for over a week to wet test his spa and when he did he said nothing to the sales person about the spa not fitting him. It was after this wet test that he called to cancel, well after the 3 days that Pennsylvania allows by law to void a contract.

At the show we used independent sales contractors and as a part of their contract they are to be paid their commissions in full at the completion of the show on all sales that do not have contingencies written on the contract. Had Soreback said that he wanted to wet test the spa first we would have written this contingency on his contract and his deposit would have been refunded in full after his wet test when he decided that he didn’t like the spa.

We offered to refund his deposit, less commissions already paid, in the form of a store credit. Soreback declined this offer. We are trying to resolve this issue in a way that is fair to all parties.

Soreback has filed a claim with the BBB and we are working with BBB to resolve this claim. Should the BBB find that Soreback should receive his deposit back in full we will abide by that decision. Soreback paid his deposit with a credit card and he is disputing this charge, should the credit card company find that we are in the wrong we will refund his deposit.

[Newbie]

I don't sell tubs/spas. My input - I got a lot of brand names, but not a lot of information on what tubs are good to go with. Everyone says wet test - we have not done it. It seems to me that you have a 50 - 50 chance on spas. Feel out the dealer, find out who maintains their spas, and call some of the people from the maintenance companies they give you. The spa we bought has their own (we're in San Diego, CA). I too was a bit weary on salesmanship etc..., but after looking at a few spas, kept coming back to the same one.

Best advice I received from this forum is "find a company and sales person you trust". You can try to get referrals, but it seems that this industry really doesn't work that way. I only got two referrals. It seem that they don't keep those kinds of records.

Just my two cents - good luck. Whatever you choose, I'm sure you'll enjoy it as long as you don't go in with the I'm doomed to get a bad tub outlook.

From a New Tub Owner

Just looking for some recommended "do not buy" spa's. It looks like Gulf Coast Spa was one mentioned by another poster.

I'm in Richmond, VA. I know of these:

Local Manufactured Tubs:

Hawkeye Mfg. or Hottubs Direct (if you look on ebay).

Local Dealers for:

Vita Spa (made in FL)

Leisure Spa (Req-Whse)

Caldera

Beachcomber

Master Spa

Thermospa (they say they're everywhere)

D1

Coleman

Costco Brand (Elite?)

Sears (?)

Home Depot (?)

P.S. You can also check ripoff.com to see if there is any info on their tubs. I know, I was like you.

Newbie Owner

[sharkman009]

I don't sell tubs/spas. My input - I got a lot of brand names, but not a lot of information on what tubs are good to go with. Everyone says wet test - we have not done it. It seems to me that you have a 50 - 50 chance on spas. Feel out the dealer, find out who maintains their spas, and call some of the people from the maintenance companies they give you. The spa we bought has their own (we're in San Diego, CA). I too was a bit weary on salesmanship etc..., but after looking at a few spas, kept coming back to the same one.

Best advice I received from this forum is "find a company and sales person you trust". You can try to get referrals, but it seems that this industry really doesn't work that way. I only got two referrals. It seem that they don't keep those kinds of records.

Just my two cents - good luck. Whatever you choose, I'm sure you'll enjoy it as long as you don't go in with the I'm doomed to get a bad tub outlook.

From a New Tub Owner

Just looking for some recommended "do not buy" spa's. It looks like Gulf Coast Spa was one mentioned by another poster.

I'm in Richmond, VA. I know of these:

Local Manufactured Tubs:

Hawkeye Mfg. or Hottubs Direct (if you look on ebay).

Local Dealers for:

Vita Spa (made in FL)

Leisure Spa (Req-Whse)

Caldera

Beachcomber

Master Spa

Thermospa (they say they're everywhere)

D1

Coleman

Costco Brand (Elite?)

Sears (?)

Home Depot (?)

P.S. You can also check ripoff.com to see if there is any info on their tubs. I know, I was like you.

Newbie Owner

Be careful with internet deals and mass merchants regardless of what anyone tells you service should be a major factor in your decision. A salesman can make it all sound so easy but if you cant call a local company and get servcie or if you have to call a toll free number to have a service call routed through to a service company you may not be to happy. Of the manufacturers that you listed I would stick with one of the following, Caldera, Beachcomber, D1, Coleman and I would check to see if you have a local dealer that sales Sundance or Hotspring. My opinion.

[Brulan1]

Be careful with internet deals and mass merchants regardless of what anyone tells you service should be a major factor in your decision. A salesman can make it all sound so easy but if you cant call a local company and get servcie or if you have to call a toll free number to have a service call routed through to a service company you may not be to happy. Of the manufacturers that you listed I would stick with one of the following, Caldera, Beachcomber, D1, Coleman and I would check to see if you have a local dealer that sales Sundance or Hotspring. My opinion.

If you are a beginner a Cotsco special is great and a great learning experience. When you become more aware if and when you have a bigger budget go for one of the major dealers like sharkboy said.