Rika

If it is rubbery it could be excess silicone from construction flaking off.

Great job Matt. It's really looking nice. Hope you are in the "Hot swirly water" soon.

Sorry, let me clarify my post. It was the bose radio I saw in a Bullfrog spa and it was cheesy. In a separate sentence, I also don't think TV's or Radios are a good thing to build into a spa regardless of the manufacturer. If you absolutely have to have a tv or radio built into your spa it's your money go ahead and waste it. But there are cheaper, more reliable and better sounding ways to accomplish music or TV around your spa.

I've seen a bose system on a Bullfrog tub. It looked more cheesy than the built in speakers I've seen elsewhere. Yes they had a molded in area but the speakers popped up on a swivel mounted rack. I don't care how you install it. You are still running a stereoor TV in an out door environment (usually). Combine this with the heat and humidity of a tub and these kinds of electronics will not be warranteed for very long for a good reason. For the price of a built in TV you can get four or five 19 inch TV at Best Buy or Walmart. You can get more boom box radios and you can take the radio inside with you when you are done tubbing. Use it in the office or garage since it isn't installed on the tub. My vote is no.

The only thing on the specs that you could really compare from one manufacturer to another is the dimensions. They all measure using the same size inch although you might want to take your own tape measure and see if they are talking inside versus or outside dimensions. Definitions of Horsepower and GPM vary. Just because one has more jets than another does not mean they are placed well or feel good on your back. The number of adults they seat may be based on seating postions but not on whether 7 adults legs and feet can fit in the bottom. To answer your question though, the two reasons I would pick one over the other based on a spec sheet would be the 500 gallon over the 330 gallon and the natural wood over synthetic. I like wood better. I also like more room. Others however would like the smaller one because it would use slightly fewer chemicals. Wet test.

Ditch the test strips. I tried test strips and sometimes didn't get the same reading using one right after another. Even if they reliablyread the same your experience should tell you they are sold on convenience not accuracy. Buy an indicator drop test kit. It is almost as fast as the test strips once you memorize how many drops of each indicator go in the correct tubes. It will more than pay for itself in accurate readings and fewer chemicals/tub refillings. From what I understand (and I have not used bromine) it does require a build up that can be easy to lose if your PH and alk get out of balance. As others have said musty cloudyness means bacteria. It sounds like you are on the right track by trusting your dealers water test more than your test strips. If you want to look at an alternative to bromine. I use Nature two with MPS non clorine shock after each use and 1 TBS Clorine shock twice a week. Very simple and keeps it clear.I could probably get by with less clorine since there are weeks I forget and only clorine shock it once and it stays clear. I do a water change and replace the Nature two cartridge every 4 months. Disclaimer- I don't sell nature 2 or work for them. I'm just a consumer pointing out an alternative that works for me. Rika

If you are in an area that get's hot in the summer by might have a problem getting it to cool off that much. You will have to run some kind of pump to filter the water. Either 24 hours circ pump or programmed cycles for filtration are standard strategies. Anytime the pumps are running you have the possibility for temperature creep. In other words the heat from your pumps will heat the water. If ambient temperature is above 100 it will be hard to get it to 80 degrees. We set ours at 97 in the summer and it stays between 97 and 100. This seems to be a good temp for us.

That is a great site isn't it. We found it when we did astronomy merit badge with our Boy Scout troop. It makes it easy to find interesting things to look at. We keep it bookmarked and check it before getting in the tub so we know if there will be something to look for while we are out.

This is a great site for StarGazing. http://www.heavens-above.com/ You can find your location and it will tell you when and where to look for satelites and planets that should be visible in your area. It is fun to find out when the International space station is going to be visible and look for it. Night time tubbing is a great time to star gaze.

Our spa has separate air injectors on the corner seat jets and a separate air blower with two speeds. We use the air in different ways. If we are really sore we turn on the seat air injectors. It basically just pulls air into the jet and makes it more forceful. These can be turned on and off for the various seats. The Blower jet adds forced air to the jets as well as plain bubble injectors. This is an all tub or nothing thing. This will fill the tub with lot's of fizz since it also comes out of the floor jets. We don't use this as much for several reasons. One the blower is significantly louder than the jet motors. We can have the water pumps running on high speed with air injectors on and carry on a normal conversation. You really have to raise your voice when the air blower is on. Two, Running the blower can also make it too fizzy. If it is really cold out the fizz starts freezing on my beard and face and your head gets cold. On the other hand in the summer when it is hot out and the water pumps start adding heat to the tub turning on the bubbles can cool the water and the mist on your face can be refreshing with a breeze. I can think of chemicals that would make the tub fizz but would not want to complicate my water treatment or filtration by using any of them. Rika

I actually bought a blanket to experiment with. It doesn't have round bubbles. It has diamond shaped bubbles which are connected to each other. It does seem to seal it fairly well when placed between the cover and the top of the tub. I think I like this way better than floating on the water because it seems that it would not interfere as much with the skimmer action on my filter housing. If the blanket floats directly on the water it would slow things from floating on the top from making their way to the filter. It is a little over sized for my 8x 8 tub so I may trim it down some so it fits under the cover better. One problem with either way is what to do with it when you are in the tub. I tried just folding it back over the cover which stands up on the lifter. On a windy night though it wanted to flip back over onto the tub or even worse fly away. I don't want to have to chase it accross my back yard or even worse the neighbors. We sometimes go without suits when the kids are asleep so this would be very inconvenient to chase.... I suppose I could fold it up and wedge it in between tub and the house but this would be very cold to mess with after getting out.

Good choice. When it is really cold out you don't want to have to get out without your core body temperature up. Getting out of a luke warm tub into snow would be a bummer. If you are hot you won't really feel the cold for a while after getting out. My wife likes ours to warm up while she is in it. That way it doesn't seem to hot when she first gets in. We keep ours around 100 and warm it up to 102-103 while we are in it. 220 is really the only way to go unless you are in a warmer climate where it doesn't get too cold.

Now that it is cold here in Oklahoma I have noticed that small amounts of steam escape from the seam where my cover folds in half. It is more noticable when it freezes into an icicle. I am thinking about getting a bubble type spa blanket to add insulation to the top of my water. I can see two options. One is to follow the instructions and cut the blanket to fit the shape of my tub at the water line and let the blanket float on top of the water. This will obviously help insulate but I can still imagine heated moist air escaping and still forming icicles. Option two is to lay the blanket on top of the tub and sandwich it between the cover and the tub top. This would not allow it to float very much but looks like it would form a better seal with my cover thus eliminating the moisture and heat loss. Who uses these and how do you use them in your tub? If you use them in one of these two ways what do you do with it when you are in the tub? It get's windy here and it seems that it would blow away and be a hassle. Do they make a noticeable difference in energy use? Do these things grow bacteria or create other maintenance issues? Thanks for your help in advance.

One more thing. Ask for a written copy of their warrantee and do a item by item compare. They should be able to provide this and it can give you an idea or what they cover. Most will say they have a long warrantee but some prorate things differently.

I'm not a dealer. I recently went through the same search you are going through. You are trying to narrow down the brands you look at since you don't have the time to go try them all. You really are asking a hard question. The "Dealers" here for the most part will try not to bash one anothers brands but the advice they give really is the best way decide on a brand that fits you. For a "Non Dealer" it is psychologically difficult for someone to admit they bought the wrong tub. Even if after owning it for a year they don't use it because it is not as comfortable as they initially thought or pumps or jets break it is easier to write that off as bad luck than to admit to yourself that you got ripped off. So how do you get info to narrow down your search? In my area there are a lot of different brands. I started with the better business bureau to see how the dealers were. If you see a lot of problems that were not addressed by the dealer then I would eliminate that dealer and therefore the brands he/she sells from your list. D1 and Hotsprings may be a good brand but if the dealer in your area is a rip off artist you don't want to buy from them. Spend a few weekends going around looking at the ones still on your list. Don't wet test at this point. You just want to see what the different sizes are, how many jets they have, how many pumps and the size of the pumps what the different seating arangements are and how much they cost. How easy is it to get the filters out? Ignore tv's and radios as others have pointed out for the $1000 or more they charge to add a tv you can buy a lot of 19 inch tv's or boom boxes at best buy. Light packages are optional. We usually leave the lights off in ours. If you want lights they will look better with a light colored shell. Pick the shell color last. Make sure to ask what is included. One dealer could be selling the same brand as another for less but then when you buy you find out the steps, cover and cover lifter are not included. These are "Options" that are really neccesities so make sure you include them in your comparisons. Ozone is usually included as well. Whether or not it is required I don't know. I still use clorine as a sanitizer and figure the ozone justs helps a bit more. You also want to get info on lounger versions as well as non lounger. You won't really know until you wet test if you like the lounger or not so get the details on both. Once you are done with this comparison you should be able to narrow it down a little based on value. And how you felt with the dealer. If you got the feeling they were slimy and they bashed other brands more than they sold you on theirs this might go into your calculations somewhere. You want to figure out which dealers seem to have the best deals on "Comparable" tubs. You decide what is comparable for you. Pick your top three and schedule a wet test at each of them. Plan on spending at least 20 minutes in both a lounger and non lounger version at each dealer. You will want to familiarize yourself with the controls. Are they easy or complicated? Sit in each seat in the tubs for a while to see if it is comfortable. Does the placement of the jets allow you to hit many different sore spots? Do the jets feel good or are they making you itch because they don't move? How does the pressure feel? Is there enough pressure in the jets? or too much? is it adjustable? Do you sit in a comfortable position? Is there shoulder room? In one I tried the corners were too rounded and I felt like my shoulders were folding into my chest. Is there enough leg room for the number of people who should be able to get into it. Are there seats for 8 but only leg room for 4? At this point you can decide if you love or hate loungers. I found one I liked but felt it cut up the area in the tub and made it hard to move around. You can tell from this why everyone tells you to wet test. This is not a lawn mower you are buying it is a piece of furniture which needs to be comfortable and what is comfortable for one person may not be for another. Dont buy one from Home depot or Sams club where you can not test it. Also don't buy one without wet testing more than one so you can know you got the best one for you. After doing all this evaluation and testing you should have enough info to feel like you can make a decision.

We looked at Bullfrog when shopping around. It seemed to me that it is a semi customizable tub but I would probably not be buying new jet packs after the initial purchase. The way I looked at it there were jet packs that I liked the jet placement and jet packs I did not like. So if I had ordered it I would have gotten packs that felt good in the wet test to replace packs that just didn't do it for me. This is different than replacing a jet in other tubs. For example the tub I eventually purchased I did not like the jet with one port that rotated. I did however like the Gatling gun style jet that had many openings and a rotating inner port. So I got more of the Gatling gun type jet. I was not able to easily change the position in the tub that the Gatling gun jet was placed (without a more expensive custom design.) This was a better trade off in my mind. Luckily I like the different jet placement patterns in our tub so that was not an issue. One thing that has been pointed out that I think is a very valid point is that the jet packs are all the same height. One of the nice things about most tubs is the different seating heights that allow you to sit higher or lower as you desire without slumping or sitting on your feet. In order to make the Jet packs interchangeable the Bullfrog is all one height. Wet test and see if this matters to you. There was also a great deal of talk on message boards about water not circulating well inside the Bullfrog jet packs and thus not getting filtered and sanitized. I did not spend enough time looking at the brand to know if this was bs brand bashing or not. My guess it that is was a non issue. Bullfrog seemed like an interesting tub just not exactly what we wanted. Rika

Oh yeah! Well we may not be as cold here in Oklahoma as you Northern Guys But we have more Ragweed to flair up Alergies.... There, We offially went off topic. Hoopy I must commend you. You do seem to be going with the flow on this pretty well.

Hoopy, I must say you made a valiant effort to maintain control of your thread. I'm sorry but after several pages of posts it is no longer yours. You are officially a "Thread Orphan." Try again with another post if you have additional questions. You probably have figured this out but avoid full foam vs partial foam questions if you plan on getting any more specific questions answered.

Thanks Jim. That is helpful.

Thanks for the tip. I will check around. I think my dealer is more interested in selling me the solution to do it myself. I am in the Tulsa, OK area so if anyone knows a dealer around here who does this let me know.

Congrats on your purchase. Finding the one that feels best to you is the best way to choose. I'm glad you got your wife to wet test with you. It really is the only way to really know if you will like the tub. It's exciting while you wait for the tub to arrive. My wife spent a fortune on new towels and robes and hooks to hang things on and new plastic cups which were pretty and hot tub safe.... You get the idea.

Whew! now that the salesman pitch is out of the way... Make sure you have a good pool service person located as well. You don't want to leave it without water testing or chemicals for long stretches of time. Bad PH and lack of sanitizer can ruin a tub quickly. You also don't want to rely on your renters to take care of it. If you have renters using it you may need someone to go by and check your tub daily. For instance if the renters don't know that bubble bath is not good for a hot tub or other random food or drinks for that matter, your nice tub can become nasty or even worse clog the filters and burn up in a short time. Resorts and hotels that provide hot tubs and pools usually have someone who cleans, checks chemical levels and adds sanitizer several times daily. In the winter if you get hard freezes you also don't want to find out that something tripped your GFI and have your tub freeze up between weeks that you visit. Don't mean to scare you but these are some things you should consider. I am pretty *** about my sanitizer and water quality. Even with Ozone and other "Automatic" sanitizers you still need to add a chemical sanitizer regularly to keep water clear and healthy.

I'm a new spa owner and recently had to soak and clean my filters for the first time. A one time use filter soak solution my dealer had was 10$. I am assuming it is a simple alkaline solution. Does anyone have a more economical solution for filter soak?

I stopped by my tub dealer today to pick up some non clorine Shock (MPS) and some PH up. He was busy talking to another customer so I looked around by myself for a while. I noticed a product called PH up which is Sodium carbonate in the hot tub chemical section for $7.50 for 2.5 lbs. In the Pool chemical section I saw a "Pool" PH up for$5.50 for 5 lbs(also Sodium Carbonate). The only difference I could see between ingredients on the bottles is that the tub chemical may have been slightly more finely ground. I saw a similar price difference on the MPS non clorine shock. I bought the cheaper "pool" product. I am curious what others feel about this or if you have noticed it. Is there anything wrong with using Pool Products in Hot tubs if they are the same chemical substance? The filter cleaner (soak) products they sell there did not have an actual ingredient listed. It just said it was an alkaline product. Is there a cheeper alternative that works as well?

Definitely try the lounger. If the sales people over there use the same script i heard in Tulsa you will hear a lot about how you won't float out of thier lounger. I did feel it was better than other brands we tried on the floating because it was deeper. But I also felt it was a bit of a hassle to get in and out of when there is water in the tub. The Malibu has different jet arrangements in the four corners so I liked being able to move around easily and find a seat that hits what is hurting. I beleive the SB has larger pumps in it than the malibu but it also has more jets so it is spread around more. On the Malibu one pump powers half the tub and the Foot jets. The other pump powers the other half the tub. With the diverters you can spread all the power out evenly or focus it all in one seat per side if you want. You can't have both jets all going through one seat. I think that would be uncomfortable anyway since what you can do is pretty powerful. It can push me out of the seat if I concentrate it so I feel comfortable in saying you can adjust it from nearly nothing to as strong as you need it. It is usually my wife and I in it so if we need the high pressure she has one pump on her seat and I have one on mine. We rarely use the blower. Too many bubbles popping water into your face and I think it is plenty strong without it. Another thing I do sometimes is put all of one pump through the Volcano jet. I run my sore legs over the jet and it is a serious deep tissue massage. Both pumps have a high and a low setting. A lot of times we just turn the pumps on low so it is quieter and we can talk. One thing I saw mentioned on this forum is that hot tubs are great for families. I agree with this. Our 13 year old son will turn off the PS2 to get in the tub with us. And it provides a relaxing time for us to all talk. I have it on a 12x 12 cement pad with wire mesh reinforcement. I have two feet walk around on each side. Easy access to all side panels. Our cover on its lifter sits at just the right height to block the wind and our neighbors view. Like you I was impressed with the construction. In the Showroom in Tulsa they have a malibu sitting up on four cement blocks under the corners full of water and running. I don't think they let anyone in that one but it speaks a lot for how confident they are in the structure. My wife would not get in with me either. We went in at closing time so they locked the doors and let us try them all out. My son and I did the testing. She has to take your word for it then on which one feels better. I did let her make all the decisions on colors for the shell and cabinet of course. I think they are made pretty well. Of course time will tell. Post again if you have more questions. I'd be happy to try and answer.